Digital BW, The Print

After reading all of these thoughful replies, I concur that it may be psychological and/or physiological but I think it is physical as well as John suggests.  I think when you scale down an image the detail in the large image spreads out a little bit taking up more space than it should and thus puts more ink on paper.  For all of these reasons I will make test prints from a section of the image at full size like I do in the darkroom.  

Thanks to all,

Bob

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Vitollo 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 11:46 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Image Density vs. Print Size I'm with Bob on this one!


  "bobphoto" wrote:
  > I have come to the conclusion that when making a test print you have to take a section 
  of an image and print it full size rather than re-sizing the whole image to make a small 
  print.  > Bob

  I'm with Bob on this one! A few weeks ago I did a test print on my Epson 1200 loaded with 
  Fotonics. I wanted to test the new Kodak Ultra paper. I resized an 8x10 image in 
  Photoshop in the Print with Preview down to about 3x4 inches to place more than one 
  image on the paper. The print came out with the black ink area area all crackled - looks 
  like an orange skin -  and thought "crap this paper is not compatible with Fotonics". But 
  decided to print a full size image and guess what? Made a fairly nice image and the black 
  areas were not crackled or blocked - had full detail and smooth surface.

  Could be sizing down image increases the resolution to the point where the printer/driver 
  can not handle it.

  John V. 



  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

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  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sure it is a physicological issue for you and for everyone who 
believes-may be in certain moments-that he lives in a physiological 
world;-).
Everybody will see what he wants to to see! That´s why marketing is 
so important in our society. (Make the visitors of your exhibition  
believe that they are looking at the best prints they have ever seen)
If you want to know how I had solved your specific (physiological)
problem, -here is the answer:
I make a testprint (detailed full res)) to check for banding, 
sharpness i.e.
But I am sitting down before the screen only when I have the "power" 
to maker a print. (Power=emotion=making faults=thinking 
paradoxical=and so on.) Than I turn on my tube amplifier and listen 
Chet Baker or Patti Smith and I know that I am alive within these 
moments. And when the print comes out: WOWWW! What a print I say!! 
Sometimes there is banding visible the next day and I am down with 
my nerves. But I never will miss what I have felt the day before.

I can recommend: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/0387953922/qid=1081878524/sr=1-
1/ref=sr_1_1_xs_stripbooks_i1_xgl14/103-0831820-7091857?
v=glance&s=books

Hope this helps
Bernard


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bobphoto" 
<bobphoto@a...> wrote:
> After reading all of these thoughful replies, I concur that it may 
be psychological and/or physiological but I think it is physical as 
well as John suggests.  I think when you scale down an image the 
detail in the large image spreads out a little bit taking up more 
space than it should and thus puts more ink on paper.  For all of 
these reasons I will make test prints from a section of the image at 
full size like I do in the darkroom.  
> 
> Thanks to all,
> 
> Bob
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: John Vitollo 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 11:46 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Image Density vs. Print Size I'm with 
Bob on this one!
> 
> 
>   "bobphoto" wrote:
>   > I have come to the conclusion that when making a test print 
you have to take a section 
>   of an image and print it full size rather than re-sizing the 
whole image to make a small 
>   print.  > Bob
> 
>   I'm with Bob on this one! A few weeks ago I did a test print on 
my Epson 1200 loaded with 
>   Fotonics. I wanted to test the new Kodak Ultra paper. I resized 
an 8x10 image in 
>   Photoshop in the Print with Preview down to about 3x4 inches to 
place more than one 
>   image on the paper. The print came out with the black ink area 
area all crackled - looks 
>   like an orange skin -  and thought "crap this paper is not 
compatible with Fotonics". But 
>   decided to print a full size image and guess what? Made a fairly 
nice image and the black 
>   areas were not crackled or blocked - had full detail and smooth 
surface.
> 
>   Could be sizing down image increases the resolution to the point 
where the printer/driver 
>   can not handle it.
> 
>   John V. 
> 
> 
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as they are often being updated.
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
from the membership without notice.
>   - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts 
may be removed from the membership.
>   - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" 
in the Files section:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
>   BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR 
OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF 
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) 
UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; 
(iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE 
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>       
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms 
of Service. 

> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed

The link doesn´t work exactly.
Here is the name of one of a very important book:
 Understanding Understanding: Essays on Cybernetics and Cognition  
 from Heinz von Förster

--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "photographyworks" 
<photographyworks@y...> wrote:
> Sure it is a physicological issue for you and for everyone who 
> believes-may be in certain moments-that he lives in a 
physiological 
> world;-).
> Everybody will see what he wants to to see! That´s why marketing 
is 
> so important in our society. (Make the visitors of your 
exhibition  
> believe that they are looking at the best prints they have ever 
seen)
> If you want to know how I had solved your specific (physiological)
> problem, -here is the answer:
> I make a testprint (detailed full res)) to check for banding, 
> sharpness i.e.
> But I am sitting down before the screen only when I have 
the "power" 
> to maker a print. (Power=emotion=making faults=thinking 
> paradoxical=and so on.) Than I turn on my tube amplifier and 
listen 
> Chet Baker or Patti Smith and I know that I am alive within these 
> moments. And when the print comes out: WOWWW! What a print I say!! 
> Sometimes there is banding visible the next day and I am down with 
> my nerves. But I never will miss what I have felt the day before.
> 
> I can recommend: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
> /0387953922/qid=1081878524/sr=1-
> 1/ref=sr_1_1_xs_stripbooks_i1_xgl14/103-0831820-7091857?
> v=glance&s=books
> 
> Hope this helps
> Bernard
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bobphoto" 
> <bobphoto@a...> wrote:
> > After reading all of these thoughful replies, I concur that it 
may 
> be psychological and/or physiological but I think it is physical 
as 
> well as John suggests.  I think when you scale down an image the 
> detail in the large image spreads out a little bit taking up more 
> space than it should and thus puts more ink on paper.  For all of 
> these reasons I will make test prints from a section of the image 
at 
> full size like I do in the darkroom.  
> > 
> > Thanks to all,
> > 
> > Bob
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: John Vitollo 
> >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 11:46 PM
> >   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Image Density vs. Print Size I'm 
with 
> Bob on this one!
> > 
> > 
> >   "bobphoto" wrote:
> >   > I have come to the conclusion that when making a test print 
> you have to take a section 
> >   of an image and print it full size rather than re-sizing the 
> whole image to make a small 
> >   print.  > Bob
> > 
> >   I'm with Bob on this one! A few weeks ago I did a test print 
on 
> my Epson 1200 loaded with 
> >   Fotonics. I wanted to test the new Kodak Ultra paper. I 
resized 
> an 8x10 image in 
> >   Photoshop in the Print with Preview down to about 3x4 inches 
to 
> place more than one 
> >   image on the paper. The print came out with the black ink area 
> area all crackled - looks 
> >   like an orange skin -  and thought "crap this paper is not 
> compatible with Fotonics". But 
> >   decided to print a full size image and guess what? Made a 
fairly 
> nice image and the black 
> >   areas were not crackled or blocked - had full detail and 
smooth 
> surface.
> > 
> >   Could be sizing down image increases the resolution to the 
point 
> where the printer/driver 
> >   can not handle it.
> > 
> >   John V. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
> > 
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> >   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
you 
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
> visiting this same page.
> > 
> >   Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to keep them short.
> >   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
> from the membership without notice.
> >   - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts 
> may be removed from the membership.
> >   - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
rules 
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
> group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and 
Guidelines" 
> in the Files section:
> >   
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> >   BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
> THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
> SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
> SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
> LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR 
> OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF 
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
> INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) 
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
DATA; 
> (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE 
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
--

> -----------
> >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
> >       
> >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >     DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >       
> >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms 
> of Service. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed

After reading again my clever comments again a fault of mine occured 
to me. The fault is that I have written "our society". This could 
lead to the understanding that "other societies" which do not 
have "our problems" because the people of this society are suffering 
from terror and hunger would have same problems. Please excuse!
Bernard

--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "photographyworks" 
<photographyworks@y...> wrote:
> Sure it is a physicological issue for you and for everyone who 
> believes-may be in certain moments-that he lives in a 
physiological 
> world;-).
> Everybody will see what he wants to to see! That´s why marketing 
is 
> so important in our society. (Make the visitors of your 
exhibition  
> believe that they are looking at the best prints they have ever 
seen)
> If you want to know how I had solved your specific (physiological)
> problem, -here is the answer:
> I make a testprint (detailed full res)) to check for banding, 
> sharpness i.e.
> But I am sitting down before the screen only when I have 
the "power" 
> to maker a print. (Power=emotion=making faults=thinking 
> paradoxical=and so on.) Than I turn on my tube amplifier and 
listen 
> Chet Baker or Patti Smith and I know that I am alive within these 
> moments. And when the print comes out: WOWWW! What a print I say!! 
> Sometimes there is banding visible the next day and I am down with 
> my nerves. But I never will miss what I have felt the day before.
> 
> I can recommend: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
> /0387953922/qid=1081878524/sr=1-
> 1/ref=sr_1_1_xs_stripbooks_i1_xgl14/103-0831820-7091857?
> v=glance&s=books
> 
> Hope this helps
> Bernard
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bobphoto" 
> <bobphoto@a...> wrote:
> > After reading all of these thoughful replies, I concur that it 
may 
> be psychological and/or physiological but I think it is physical 
as 
> well as John suggests.  I think when you scale down an image the 
> detail in the large image spreads out a little bit taking up more 
> space than it should and thus puts more ink on paper.  For all of 
> these reasons I will make test prints from a section of the image 
at 
> full size like I do in the darkroom.  
> > 
> > Thanks to all,
> > 
> > Bob
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: John Vitollo 
> >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 11:46 PM
> >   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Image Density vs. Print Size I'm 
with 
> Bob on this one!
> > 
> > 
> >   "bobphoto" wrote:
> >   > I have come to the conclusion that when making a test print 
> you have to take a section 
> >   of an image and print it full size rather than re-sizing the 
> whole image to make a small 
> >   print.  > Bob
> > 
> >   I'm with Bob on this one! A few weeks ago I did a test print 
on 
> my Epson 1200 loaded with 
> >   Fotonics. I wanted to test the new Kodak Ultra paper. I 
resized 
> an 8x10 image in 
> >   Photoshop in the Print with Preview down to about 3x4 inches 
to 
> place more than one 
> >   image on the paper. The print came out with the black ink area 
> area all crackled - looks 
> >   like an orange skin -  and thought "crap this paper is not 
> compatible with Fotonics". But 
> >   decided to print a full size image and guess what? Made a 
fairly 
> nice image and the black 
> >   areas were not crackled or blocked - had full detail and 
smooth 
> surface.
> > 
> >   Could be sizing down image increases the resolution to the 
point 
> where the printer/driver 
> >   can not handle it.
> > 
> >   John V. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
> > 
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> >   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
you 
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
> visiting this same page.
> > 
> >   Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to keep them short.
> >   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
> from the membership without notice.
> >   - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts 
> may be removed from the membership.
> >   - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
rules 
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
> group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and 
Guidelines" 
> in the Files section:
> >   
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> >   BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
> THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
> SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
> SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
> LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR 
> OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF 
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
> INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) 
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
DATA; 
> (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE 
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
--

> -----------
> >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
> >       
> >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >     DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >       
> >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms 
> of Service. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed