Digital BW, The Print

I just stopped my latest fade test (with a fluorescent light, "bare bulb")
at 600 hours.  The results are below.

 

Short summary:

 

My initial conclusions are that the dyes on the latest papers are not bad,
but they are not in the same league with the best pigment-paper
combinations.  The new Kodak paper does not appear to be a "breakthrough." 

 

The Epson UltraSmooth paper (which I believe to be the same as Epson
Scrapbook and PremierArt Hot Press Fine Art) looks very solid.  The Epson
Premium Semigloss, especially with PremierArt spray, also turned in an
excellent performance.

 

The Arches Hot Press uncoated paper did not do as well as the best coated
papers.

 

 

Notes on procedures:

 

HP dye was used on HP, Ilford Classic, and Kodak's latest paper.  These were
supplied by 3rd parties.  

 

All other papers used MIS Ultra Tone family pigments.  The neutral curves
were used unless otherwise noted.  The glossy papers with UT pigments used
the "Eboni-glossy" curves.  (That is, the 100% black patch was composed of
the cyan and magenta position gray inks.)

 

Densities were read with an X-Rite Color Digital Swatchbook
spectrophotometer.  Where there is a + or - sign, it indicates that some of
the multiple readings were at the next higher or lower, respectively,
number.

 

 

X-Rite readings:

 

 

HP dye on HP paper:

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .80        .79        .76        .79

 

                        600 Hr:              .78        .76-       .72
.77

 

            100% patch start:          2.06+    2.05+    2.03      2.05-

 

                        600 Hr:              1.97      1.95      1.92
1.95

 

            Paper white:                  .07        .06        .05
.06

 

                        600 Hr:              .07        .06        .05
.06

 

 

HP dye on Ilford Classic Pearl paper:

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .54        .52        .51        .53

 

                        600 Hr:              .50        .49+      .48-
.50

 

            100% patch start:          1.62      1.60      1.56      1.60+

 

                        600 Hr:              1.66      1.64      1.59
1.64

 

            (Dark storage control      1.69      1.69      1.65      1.68)

 

            (A dmax increase during the first day of drying or "curing" is
not unusual. 

            All samples were over 1 day old.  This amount of "curing" is
unusual.)

 

            Paper white:                  .07        .06        .04
.07

 

                        600 Hr:              .07        .06        .06
.07

 

 

HP dye on Kodak paper:

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .58        .56        .53        .58

 

                        600 Hr:              .55        .54        .51
.55

 

            100% patch start:          2.15      2.07-     1.98      2.09-

 

                        600 Hr:              2.13      2.02      1.90
2.05

 

            Paper white:                  .08        .08        .05
.08

 

                        600 Hr:              .08        .07        .06
.08

 

 

 

 

MIS Ultra Tone inks on various papers:

 

 

Epson UltraSmooth:

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .59        .59        .60        .59

 

                        600 Hr:              .59        .59        .60
.59

 

            100% patch start:          1.61      1.62      1.64      1.61+

 

                        600 Hr:              1.60      1.61      1.63
1.61

 

            Paper white:                  .02        .03        .04
.03

 

                        600 Hr:              .02        .02        .04
.02

 

 

Epson Premium Semigloss with PremierArt spray:

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .58        .57        .58        .58

 

                        600 Hr:              .58        .57        .58
.58

 

            100% patch start:          2.07-     2.09      2.09-     2.08

 

                        600 Hr:              2.05      2.07      2.06
2.06

 

            Paper white:                  .07        .06        .04
.06

 

                        600 Hr:              .07        .06        .04
.06

 

 

Premium Semigloss with no PremierArt spray:

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .60        .60        .60        .60

 

                        600 Hr:              .60        .59        .60
.60

 

            100% patch start:          2.10      2.11      2.09      2.11

 

                        600 Hr:              2.08      2.08      2.05
2.08

 

            Paper white:                  .06        .05        .03
.05

 

                        600 Hr:              .06        .05        .03
.06-

 

 

 

Epson Enhanced Matte, UT carbon (no color pigments):

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .58        .63        .68        .61

 

                        600 Hr:              .58        .63        .70
.60+

 

            100% patch start:          1.65      1.67      1.68      1.66

 

                        600 Hr:              1.66      1.67      1.69
1.66

 

            Paper white:                  .04        .04        .02
.04

 

                        600 Hr:              .04        .04        .04
.04

 

 

Epson Enhanced Matte with UT neutral curve:

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .61        .62        .62        .61

 

                        600 Hr:              .61        .61        .63
.61

 

            100% patch start:          1.65      1.66      1.68      1.66

 

                        600 Hr:              1.66      1.67      1.69
1.66

 

            Paper white:                  .04        .03        .01
.04

 

                        600 Hr:              .04        .04        .04
.04

 

 

Arches Hot Press with PremierArt spray:

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .60        .62        .64        .61

 

                        600 Hr:              .59        .61        .62
.60

 

            100% patch start:          1.44      1.45      1.47      1.44

 

                        600 Hr:              1.43      1.45      1.46
1.44

 

            Paper white:                  .05        .07        .10
.06

 

                        600 Hr:              .05        .06        .08
.05

 

 

Arches Hot Press without PremierArt spray:

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .59        .61        .63        .60

 

                        600 Hr:              .59        .60        .62-
.59

 

            100% patch start:          1.51      1.52      1.54-     1.52-

 

                        600 Hr:              1.51      1.52      1.53
1.51

 

            Paper white:                  .05        .07        .10
.06

 

                        600 Hr:              .04        .05        .07
.05

 

 

Epson Glossy Paper Heavyweight with PremierArt spray:

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .60        .60        .60        .60

 

                        600 Hr:              .60        .60        .61
.60

 

            100% patch start:          2.09+    2.09-     2.04+    2.09+

 

                        600 Hr:              2.08      2.07      2.03
2.08

 

            Paper white:                  .03        .04        .03
.03

 

                        600 Hr:              .04        .04        .05
.04

 

 

Epson Glossy Heavyweight without PremierArt spray:

 

                                                Cyan     Mag.     Yellow
Visual density

 

            50% patch start:            .59        .60        .59        .60

 

                        600 Hr:              .59        .59        .60
.59

 

            100% patch start:          1.96+    1.96-     1.93-     1.96

 

                        600 Hr:              1.96      1.96      1.93
1.96

 

            Paper white:                  .03        .03        .03
.03

 

                        600 Hr:              .03        .04-       .04
.03

 

 

            



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul,

Are you planning on testing the HP b&w inks on HP paper anytime?  (Or 
did you already and I somehow missed them in the data)

It would be nice to have some confirmation other than Wilhelm since I 
am kind of staking my credability on those results.

thanks,

mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I just stopped my latest fade test (with a fluorescent light, "bare 
bulb")
> at 600 hours.  The results are below.
> 
>  
> 
> Short summary:
> 
>  
> 
> My initial conclusions are that the dyes on the latest papers are 
not bad,
> but they are not in the same league with the best pigment-paper
> combinations.  The new Kodak paper does not appear to be 
a "breakthrough." 
> 
>  
> 
> The Epson UltraSmooth paper (which I believe to be the same as Epson
> Scrapbook and PremierArt Hot Press Fine Art) looks very solid.  The 
Epson
> Premium Semigloss, especially with PremierArt spray, also turned in 
an
> excellent performance.
> 
>  
> 
> The Arches Hot Press uncoated paper did not do as well as the best 
coated
> papers.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Notes on procedures:
> 
>  
> 
> HP dye was used on HP, Ilford Classic, and Kodak's latest paper.  
These were
> supplied by 3rd parties.  
> 
>  
> 
> All other papers used MIS Ultra Tone family pigments.  The neutral 
curves
> were used unless otherwise noted.  The glossy papers with UT 
pigments used
> the "Eboni-glossy" curves.  (That is, the 100% black patch was 
composed of
> the cyan and magenta position gray inks.)
> 
>  
> 
> Densities were read with an X-Rite Color Digital Swatchbook
> spectrophotometer.  Where there is a + or - sign, it indicates that 
some of
> the multiple readings were at the next higher or lower, 
respectively,
> number.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> X-Rite readings:
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> HP dye on HP paper:
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .80        .79        .76        .79
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              .78        .76-
       .72
> .77
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          2.06+    2.05+    2.03      
2.05-
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              1.97      1.95      
1.92
> 1.95
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .07        .06        .05
> .06
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .07        .06        .05
> .06
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> HP dye on Ilford Classic Pearl paper:
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .54        .52        .51        .53
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .50        .49+      .48-
> .50
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          1.62      1.60      
1.56      1.60+
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              1.66      1.64      
1.59
> 1.64
> 
>  
> 
>             (Dark storage control      1.69      1.69      
1.65      1.68)
> 
>  
> 
>             (A dmax increase during the first day of drying 
or "curing" is
> not unusual. 
> 
>             All samples were over 1 day old.  This amount 
of "curing" is
> unusual.)
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .07        .06        .04
> .07
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .07        .06        .06
> .07
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> HP dye on Kodak paper:
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .58        .56        .53        .58
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .55        .54        .51
> .55
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          2.15      2.07-     
1.98      2.09-
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              2.13      2.02      
1.90
> 2.05
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .08        .08        .05
> .08
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .08        .07        .06
> .08
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> MIS Ultra Tone inks on various papers:
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Epson UltraSmooth:
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .59        .59        .60        .59
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .59        .59        .60
> .59
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          1.61      1.62      
1.64      1.61+
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              1.60      1.61      
1.63
> 1.61
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .02        .03        .04
> .03
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .02        .02        .04
> .02
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Epson Premium Semigloss with PremierArt spray:
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .58        .57        .58        .58
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .58        .57        .58
> .58
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          2.07-     2.09      2.09-
     2.08
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              2.05      2.07      
2.06
> 2.06
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .07        .06        .04
> .06
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .07        .06        .04
> .06
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Premium Semigloss with no PremierArt spray:
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .60        .60        .60        .60
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .60        .59        .60
> .60
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          2.10      2.11      
2.09      2.11
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              2.08      2.08      
2.05
> 2.08
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .06        .05        .03
> .05
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .06        .05        .03
> .06-
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Epson Enhanced Matte, UT carbon (no color pigments):
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .58        .63        .68        .61
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .58        .63        .70
> .60+
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          1.65      1.67      
1.68      1.66
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              1.66      1.67      
1.69
> 1.66
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .04        .04        .02
> .04
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .04        .04        .04
> .04
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Epson Enhanced Matte with UT neutral curve:
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .61        .62        .62        .61
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .61        .61        .63
> .61
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          1.65      1.66      
1.68      1.66
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              1.66      1.67      
1.69
> 1.66
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .04        .03        .01
> .04
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .04        .04        .04
> .04
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Arches Hot Press with PremierArt spray:
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .60        .62        .64        .61
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .59        .61        .62
> .60
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          1.44      1.45      
1.47      1.44
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              1.43      1.45      
1.46
> 1.44
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .05        .07        .10
> .06
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .05        .06        .08
> .05
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Arches Hot Press without PremierArt spray:
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .59        .61        .63        .60
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .59        .60        .62-
> .59
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          1.51      1.52      1.54-
     1.52-
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              1.51      1.52      
1.53
> 1.51
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .05        .07        .10
> .06
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .04        .05        .07
> .05
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Epson Glossy Paper Heavyweight with PremierArt spray:
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .60        .60        .60        .60
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .60        .60        .61
> .60
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          2.09+    2.09-     2.04+    
2.09+
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              2.08      2.07      
2.03
> 2.08
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .03        .04        .03
> .03
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .04        .04        .05
> .04
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Epson Glossy Heavyweight without PremierArt spray:
> 
>  
> 
>                                                 Cyan     Mag.     
Yellow
> Visual density
> 
>  
> 
>             50% patch 
start:            .59        .60        .59        .60
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 
Hr:              .59        .59        .60
> .59
> 
>  
> 
>             100% patch start:          1.96+    1.96-     1.93-     
1.96
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              1.96      1.96      
1.93
> 1.96
> 
>  
> 
>             Paper white:                  .03        .03        .03
> .03
> 
>  
> 
>                         600 Hr:              .03        .04-
       .04

> .03
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>             
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark,

>Are you planning on testing the HP b&w inks on HP paper anytime?  (Or 
>did you already and I somehow missed them in the data)

The HP dye is the grayscale dye, including on HP's latest paper.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul Roark wrote:

> I just stopped my latest fade test (with a fluorescent light, "bare bulb")
> at 600 hours.  The results are below.

Paul,

Thank you for all the work done.

I will print it out and study the results.

Ernst

Ernst,

The only real surprise to me was that the Arches uncoated paper didn't do
better.  I had always believed uncoated papers were so great -- perhaps not
with pigments.  I'm dropping my efforts on the uncoated papers.  Arches Hot
Press with the 2200 and UT7 is clearly an option for the artists who want
uncoated papers, however.  It's smooth and has the best dmax of an I've
tested -- up to 1.56.  It also comes in a Bright White that has a bit more
dynamic range.  The Cold Press has texture and almost as good a dmax.

That Epson Glossy Paper Heavyweight is probably about the same as the cheap
Epson Glossy Photo paper in terms of its coating and lightfastness, but with
a slightly (and probably inadequately) buffered paper base.  In light of my
success buffering the cheaper paper, I'm dropping support for the
"Heavyweight" one and going to see if the post-printing buffering has any
impact on the cheap paper's results.  The prospect of a cheap, artifact-free
glossy paper that might be able to be archival intrigues me.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
______________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst Dinkla [mailto:E.Dinkla@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:43 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Fade test -- HP dye & MIS Ultra Tone pigments

Paul Roark wrote:

> I just stopped my latest fade test (with a fluorescent light, "bare bulb")
> at 600 hours.  The results are below.

Paul,

Thank you for all the work done.

I will print it out and study the results.

Ernst



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Yahoo! Groups Links

In relation to the Kodak Ultima fade test results, there's an 
interesting article here:

http://www.photo-i.co.uk/index.html

where Henry Wilhelm wipes the floor with Kodak's test method.

Ernst

Ernst wrote:

>In relation to the Kodak Ultima fade test results, there's an 
>interesting article here:

>http://www.photo-i.co.uk/index.html

>where Henry Wilhelm wipes the floor with Kodak's test method.


Thanks for the URL.  In case some have trouble finding the key article, I've
pasted the highlights below:


"Kodak launched a range of Photo Quality paper called the Ultima inkjet
paper which is being marketed as Brilliant Colour photographs that will last
for 100 years on any printer platform, on any ink set. This claim is based
on a distortion of the test method, based on Kodak's testing the new EPSON
Picture Mate would have a print life of 500 or possibly 800 years. ..."

"Wilhelm's testing method use a constant light source of 450 lux day. Kodak
uses 120 lux per day with a UV filter over their lights, this gives a 3.75
over 4X advantage. Based on Kodak's test method an Epson Pro 4000 print on
fine art paper would last for over 1000 years. ..."

See http://www.photo-i.co.uk/News/Apr04/Wilhelm.htm

So if the UltraChrome color prints last 1000 "Kodak years," maybe I ought to
be representing that my UT prints had a "display life" of over 2000 years??
(No way.)

However, I might add that in the last 2 months I've seen 2 museum exhibits
with books written over 1000 years ago.  They were in incredibly good shape.
The pages were barely yellowed at all and the inks -- both black and color
-- were like new.  I've read much of the paper back then was flax based.
(It was clearly not wood-based paper, which came into use only recently.)
The black ink was no-doubt lamp-black (carbon).  I have no idea what the
color pigments were.  However, I'd guess that by AD 800 (the earliest of the
books I saw) people had lots of experience with pigments and dyes for both
writing and clothing.  So, these (probably) pigments may well have been just
as good as the modern ones.


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com