Digital BW, The Print

Hey,

I recently purchased a set of MIS Ultratone 2 cartridges for my 
Epson 1280.  I had much deliberation between MIS and Piezography.  I 
am very happy with my choice!  I like the ability to have different 
tones from the same inksets.  I'm pretty new to digital printing, 
but have gotten some prints that I'll be proud of showing in some 
upcoming exhibits.

I really like the Carbon curve.  I would also like to make neutral 
prints.  The neutral using either the slider or the curve, is a 
little bit cool -- which to me means too blue.  I would like the 
look of silver prints that I get from a local lab (PhotoLab in 
Berkeley).

Is the most direct (best?) approach to use the sliders to take out 
the cool ink or to modify the neutral curve?  Either way, I'd like 
to get an easily reusable workflow where I can print neutral or 
carbon and not mess around too much.  (Until some point later when I 
want to take the next step forward.)

Suggestions, hints, and additional guidance is much appreciated.

Joseph Robinson

Joseph,

>I recently purchased a set of MIS Ultratone 2 cartridges for my 
>Epson 1280.  I had much deliberation between MIS and Piezography.  I 
>am very happy with my choice!  I like the ability to have different 
>tones from the same inksets.  ...

If I'd been satisfied with my Piezo system, the variable-tone approach might
not exist.

>I really like the Carbon curve.  

>I would also like to make neutral prints.  The neutral using 
>either the slider or the curve, is a little bit cool ...

When you use no sliders in that color controls mode, is the print still too
cool?

>Is the most direct (best?) approach to use the sliders to take out 
>the cool ink or to modify the neutral curve?

The sliders might be the easiest.  The curves give the most control and
might be a hair more lightfast, however.

If you want to take a shot at the curves approach, start with the neutral
curve and move the green curve points down about 20 point at the 50% (127)
and 75% (191) points.  Make offsetting moves of the red curve.  At the 25%
(63) point, try half that move and then make progressively smaller moves as
you go down to the black point (which should be at the lower left of the
curves box -- if it's not click on the arrows in the middle of the
horizontal axis).

I don't have a 1280 set up right now, so I can't see how this will work.

Good luck.  It's good to learn how to modify these curves anyway.  So, the
efforts and learning on this one will pay nice dividends in the future.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Joseph,

For my ut2 standard and test prints, I print greyscale
images straight from the epson driver without curves. 


My images are set up as "Dot Gain 20%" and when
printing, I don't make any adjustments in the color
management sliders, I believe that the setting is set
at Photo Realistic.  This produces a neutral image on
my proofing paper, Epson Heavyweight Matte.  I print
with high speed checked and at 1440.  Try it, you may
like it.

If you are interested in seeing a few examples, we
still have room in an informal UT2 print exchange.  It
is very helpful to see others prints and workflow
techniques in your hands.  Let me know if you would
like to be included in this exchange.

Don


--- Joseph Robinson <joseph@...> wrote:

> 
> Is the most direct (best?) approach to use the
> sliders to take out 
> the cool ink or to modify the neutral curve?  Either
> way, I'd like 
> to get an easily reusable workflow where I can print
> neutral or 
> carbon and not mess around too much.  (Until some
> point later when I 
> want to take the next step forward.)
> 
> Suggestions, hints, and additional guidance is much
> appreciated.
> 
> Joseph Robinson
> 
> 
> 
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Don,

Thanks for the tips.  I am using the same Epson paper for proofing, 
although I don't believe that the images are set at "Dot Gain 20%".  
I'll double check that.  I had also adjusted the sliders to be 
neutral according to the MIS supplied instructions.  I'll try it 
without any adjustments at all, and see if that looks more neutral.

The exchange sounds pretty interesting, especially since I'm getting 
going now.  Let me know what I need to do, or what else is involved.

Joseph
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "D. Hill" 
<hill14701@y...> wrote:

> Joseph,
> 
> For my ut2 standard and test prints, I print greyscale
> images straight from the epson driver without curves. 
> 
> 
> My images are set up as "Dot Gain 20%" and when
> printing, I don't make any adjustments in the color
> management sliders, I believe that the setting is set
> at Photo Realistic.  This produces a neutral image on
> my proofing paper, Epson Heavyweight Matte.  I print
> with high speed checked and at 1440.  Try it, you may
> like it.
> 
> If you are interested in seeing a few examples, we
> still have room in an informal UT2 print exchange.  It
> is very helpful to see others prints and workflow
> techniques in your hands.  Let me know if you would
> like to be included in this exchange.
> 
> Don
> 
> 
> --- Joseph Robinson <joseph@h...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Is the most direct (best?) approach to use the
> > sliders to take out 
> > the cool ink or to modify the neutral curve?  Either
> > way, I'd like 
> > to get an easily reusable workflow where I can print
> > neutral or 
> > carbon and not mess around too much.  (Until some
> > point later when I 
> > want to take the next step forward.)
> > 
> > Suggestions, hints, and additional guidance is much
> > appreciated.
> > 
> > Joseph Robinson
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
> > and other resources as they are often being updated.
> > 
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
> > digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
> > Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
> > earlier messages to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal
> > attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or
> > argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group
> > topic of digital B&W printing. Users who
> > persistently make off-topic posts may be removed
> > from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
> > group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
> > actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> > Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"
> > in the Files section:
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
> > UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
> > SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT,
> > INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR
> > LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
> > HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
> > INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
> > GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
> > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
> > TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
> > 
> >     
> >
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

Paul,

Thanks for the response.  It is great that the inks are so flexible.

With all the sliders at 0, the prints don't seem cool.  I have to 
look at it in daylight to confirm that.  I'm not sure yet if I'm 
satisfied with them...

I will try modifying the curves, since as you say that gives more 
control and is probably a better long term solution.   If I can get 
that curve right, then I can save it and easily alternate between a 
couple tones for prints.

I notice that I'm using up very little black ink, but I'm almost 
half way on the "color" cartridge.  I assume that this is normal, 
and that it's because the warm or cool tints are replacing the pure 
black inks.  Am I correct?

Joseph
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Joseph,
> 
> >I recently purchased a set of MIS Ultratone 2 cartridges for my 
> >Epson 1280.  I had much deliberation between MIS and 
Piezography.  I 
> >am very happy with my choice!  I like the ability to have 
different 
> >tones from the same inksets.  ...
> 
> If I'd been satisfied with my Piezo system, the variable-tone 
approach might
> not exist.
> 
> >I really like the Carbon curve.  
> 
> >I would also like to make neutral prints.  The neutral using 
> >either the slider or the curve, is a little bit cool ...
> 
> When you use no sliders in that color controls mode, is the print 
still too
> cool?
> 
> >Is the most direct (best?) approach to use the sliders to take 
out 
> >the cool ink or to modify the neutral curve?
> 
> The sliders might be the easiest.  The curves give the most 
control and
> might be a hair more lightfast, however.
> 
> If you want to take a shot at the curves approach, start with the 
neutral
> curve and move the green curve points down about 20 point at the 
50% (127)
> and 75% (191) points.  Make offsetting moves of the red curve.  At 
the 25%
> (63) point, try half that move and then make progressively smaller 
moves as
> you go down to the black point (which should be at the lower left 
of the
> curves box -- if it's not click on the arrows in the middle of the
> horizontal axis).
> 
> I don't have a 1280 set up right now, so I can't see how this will 
work.
> 
> Good luck.  It's good to learn how to modify these curves anyway.  
So, the
> efforts and learning on this one will pay nice dividends in the 
future.

> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Joseph,

While it depends on the subject matter, your observation that the color cart
on the 1280 is being used faster than the black ink may be normal.  I really
have not tried to measure the relative ink usage rates.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


____________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Robinson [mailto:joseph@...] 
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 10:43 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] neutral prints with MIS Ultratone 2

Paul,

Thanks for the response.  It is great that the inks are so flexible.

With all the sliders at 0, the prints don't seem cool.  I have to 
look at it in daylight to confirm that.  I'm not sure yet if I'm 
satisfied with them...

I will try modifying the curves, since as you say that gives more 
control and is probably a better long term solution.   If I can get 
that curve right, then I can save it and easily alternate between a 
couple tones for prints.

I notice that I'm using up very little black ink, but I'm almost 
half way on the "color" cartridge.  I assume that this is normal, 
and that it's because the warm or cool tints are replacing the pure 
black inks.  Am I correct?

Joseph