Digital BW, The Print

Richard, see recent thread "Serious quadtone printing". Your situiation is 
exactly one of the points I was trying to make.
Doesn't sound like your in a position to try something that "might" work. The 
2000? forget it. You best bet and probably least expensive would be the 1280. 
Lots of users and several quad workflows to go with it.
We all have thrown good many after bad, and your go for broke mentality is 
not inappropriate at all.
Can you get an 1160?
Steve M.
In a message dated 4/24/2004 10:32:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
r.smallfield@... writes:

> Hi,
> I posted a message entitled 'Two possibly terminal 1200 clogs' - but perhaps 
> my subject line was misleading. 
> 
> I had some specific questions, but the subject probably put people off. 
> 
> I repeat the questions here:
> 1. Would the UT1 inks work in an 1160 if two of the inks were removed?
> 2. I have seen a 2000P advertised 2nd hand - and gather that it *might* work 
> with these inks ... any thoughts? Mind you, second-hand printers have always 
> led to more trouble than they're worth for me, having had three of them.
> 
> But I'm tempted to go for broke and get a 2100 - there comes a time when you 
> have to quit messing about and get things to your clients on time if you 
> want to have any business at all.
> 
> Richard
> --
> http://smallfield.vze.com
> http://photos.smallfield.vze.com
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 05:42 AM Sunday 4/25/04, you wrote:
>You best bet and probably least expensive would be the 1280. 

Thanks for your advice - I just don't want to go down the line of incessant clogs again with pigment inks on a dye printer.

>Lots of users and several quad workflows to go with it.
>We all have thrown good many after bad, and your go for broke mentality is 
>not inappropriate at all.

Thanks:)

>Can you get an 1160?

Yes, they are easy to get in New Zealand. I wondered if it would be more trouble free than a 1290 with only four inks and a larger droplet size (= less clogs???)

I'll look up the serious digital printing thread and study it.

Many thanks for your help,
Richard

--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com

   'A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and
   making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually
   die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.'
   --Max Planck

In a message dated 4/24/2004 10:50:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
r.smallfield@... writes:

> Yes, they are easy to get in New Zealand. I wondered if it would be more 
> trouble free than a 1290 with only four inks and a larger droplet size (= less 
> clogs???)
> 
The 1160 is really a perfect choice for quad printing. 4 tones, should make 
everything easier, cheaper too I would imagine. Unless your into cool and sepia 
stuff from the same printer, then you need the 6 ink printer like the 
1280/1290.
The 1290 is probably faster, but both have and equal record as far as trouble 
free. Some are some are not. If your printing for clients perhaps 2 1160's A 
back up is nice!
Having been on this list since the beginning, I haven't seen alot of 1200 
success stories. I'm sure someone else will jump in here.
Steve M.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 05:59 AM Sunday 4/25/04, you wrote:
>The 1160 is really a perfect choice for quad printing. 4 tones, should make 
>everything easier, cheaper too I would imagine. Unless your into cool and sepia 
>stuff from the same printer, then you need the 6 ink printer like the 
>1280/1290.

Thanks - I do like the warm tone, but if Edward Weston lived without it then I dare say that I can, too.

Would I just ditch the two toner bottles?

>If your printing for clients perhaps 2 1160's. A back up is nice!

The HP 7660 could also be a stop-gap until I get sorted.

Many thanks for your help,
Richard

--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com

   "The United States has much to offer the third world war."
   --Ronald Reagan, in a 1975 speech.

Am about to get an 860 to use with UT-FS inks for amall prints, but 
wondered about the new EZ inks that MIS offers for the Epson C86.  The 
printer is certainly cheap enough.  But how do the EZ inks compare with 
UT-FS?  And am I correct that you print from a COLOR RGB image?  How is 
that?  How much control do you have?  Can you convert to gray scale, and 
then print?

Any comments welcome.


Arthur Fink

		A r t h u r    F i n k     P h o t o g r a p h y
		------------------------------------------------
		Ten New Island Avenue               207.766.5722
		Peaks Island, Maine 04108  arthur@...

Arthur,

All I can say is that I use the C86 with MIS EZN/W and is very happy with the results.
I use PhotoBlack with Ilford Smooth pearl paper, and mostly I have warmtone ink in the 
yellow and magenta cartridges because I like the slightly warm print tone this combination 
gives.
In my opinion C86 with EZ inks is the cheapest solution and also delivers the best print 
quality right from the first print.

I generally convert RGB images to grayscale / Gamma 2.2 before I print.
I don't know about the UT-FS comparison, ask Paul Roark, he knows :)

Keep in mind that if you buy bulk ink you only have to buy one black (Photo or Ebony)  and 
one Cyan  (OR magenta OR yellow) bottle, since the ink in the C M Y cartridges are the 
same.

Only disadvantages: Prints only up to A4 and pizza wheel marks can be a problem when 
printing with a lot of black ink.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink <arthur@m...> wrote:

> Am about to get an 860 to use with UT-FS inks for amall prints, but 
> wondered about the new EZ inks that MIS offers for the Epson C86.  The 
> printer is certainly cheap enough.  But how do the EZ inks compare with 
> UT-FS?  And am I correct that you print from a COLOR RGB image?  How is 
> that?  How much control do you have?  Can you convert to gray scale, and 
> then print?
> 
> Any comments welcome.
> 
> 
> Arthur Fink
> 
> 		A r t h u r    F i n k     P h o t o g r a p h y
> 		------------------------------------------------
> 		Ten New Island Avenue               207.766.5722
> 		Peaks Island, Maine 04108  arthur@a...

Arthur,

>Am about to get an 860 to use with UT-FS inks for amall prints, but 
>wondered about the new EZ inks that MIS offers for the Epson C86.  

>... how do the EZ inks compare with UT-FS?

The EZ warm is pure carbon, the UT-FS is half way between carbon and
neutral.  The C86 can match that tone by putting in a mix of carbon (EZ-W)
and neutral (EZ-N) carts.  Both are the same basic inks -- same starting ink
stock.

The 860 with UT-FS would be able to print slightly smoother highlights if
partitioning curves were used.  However, I don't here many people saying
they see any dots in the C86 output.

The C86 is probably easier to "profile" a new paper with due to the sliders,
but the slider controls are less flexible than good curves.

>And am I correct that you print from a COLOR RGB image? 

The C86 prints from an un-altered grayscale file if that is what you have.
If you have an original RGB, you can often get a good print from it is you
have all warm or all neutral ink in the printer.  Otherwise you'll get a
split-tone that divides the tones by the colors and ink positions (which
could be interesting).  Also, the yellow tones will print light in the
midtones.  Other colors may be less than ideal in their ramps.  So, bottom
line, I recommend using grayscale files.

> How much control do you have?  

There are a few papers that don't profile well.  I think Moab Entrada might
be in that category.  Most will be fine with just minor slider settings.
Tones between carbon and neutral-cool (depending on the paper) are easily
controlled by the mix of warm and neutral carts.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

At 10:37 AM 2/10/2005, Paul Roark wrote:

. . .
>The C86 can match that tone by putting in a mix of carbon (EZ-W)
>and neutral (EZ-N) carts.
. . .
>Tones between carbon and neutral-cool (depending on the paper) are easily
>controlled by the mix of warm and neutral carts.

Can you say more about which carts you would mix?

Also, any idea why Moab Entrada doesn't profile well?  (In my experience 
it's remarkably like Photo Rag, but I certainly defer to Paul on such matters!)



		A r t h u r    F i n k     P h o t o g r a p h y
		------------------------------------------------
		Ten New Island Avenue               207.766.5722
		Peaks Island, Maine 04108  arthur@...

Arthur,

. . .
>>The C86 can match that tone by putting in a mix of carbon (EZ-W)
>>and neutral (EZ-N) carts.
. . .
>>Tones between carbon and neutral-cool (depending on the paper) are easily
>>controlled by the mix of warm and neutral carts.

>Can you say more about which carts you would mix?

The yellow cart has the least amount of effect on the midtones.  The other 2
are about the same.

>Also, any idea why Moab Entrada doesn't profile well?  ...

No, I was just not able to find settings that resulted in a good ramp.  The
deep shadows went flat.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

At 10:53 AM 2/11/2005, Paul Roark wrote:

> >Can you say more about which carts you would mix?
>
>The yellow cart has the least amount of effect on the midtones.  The other 2
>are about the same.

Sorry ... but I may be dense.  So what mixture of warm and cool carts are 
you suggesting?



		A r t h u r    F i n k     P h o t o g r a p h y
		------------------------------------------------
		Ten New Island Avenue               207.766.5722
		Peaks Island, Maine 04108  arthur@...