Digital BW, The Print

There finally is a paper I consider neutral with Eboni Only. BO causes
it to really "pop". The D-Max appears to my eye to be the same as HPR.
I'm really liking this paper so far. 

Jerry Olsen would have loved this paper.

Bob Michaels

Ok...so I am using the UT2 inks, and I like them a lot. After hearing about the qtr so much I decided to try it out. I got the downloads from mr harringtons site. Three of them. 1, is the basic program package, 2, was the ink descriptor installer, and 3, was the curves installer for 1280. I´m on vacation right now, so maybe I got some of that wrong, but the point is, that when i go to print, there are no curves in the quadtone rip section of the gimp driver. Just a blend box. I have run the installer a few times and get no errors. Where is the curves drop box supposed to be? I made a folder for qtr stuff and have it in there. My guess is that it goes in the system folder. I have found no directions about that though. It seems that the qtr installer package should do that, but i guess it doesnt.hmmmmmmm......I´m sure it´s a dumb question, but if you know, please pass along the info?...thanks in advance! P.S.....Gunajuato mexico is a very cool place to get some nice shots. Tomorrow I go to the pyamids at teotihaucan....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've seen Paul Roark say that the Moab Entrada White, as opposed to 
the Natural, is almost identical to the Condor, and cost less.  But, 
Moab Entrada, has some flaking, but I understand it is much easier to 
deal with than Photo Rag.  I'm not sure about Condor since I haven't 
try it yet, but will soon.
Randy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Michaels" 
<bob@b...> wrote:
> There finally is a paper I consider neutral with Eboni Only. BO 
causes
> it to really "pop". The D-Max appears to my eye to be the same as 
HPR.

> I'm really liking this paper so far. 
> 
> Jerry Olsen would have loved this paper.
> 
> Bob Michaels

The D-Max appears to my eye to be the same as HPR.
> I'm really liking this paper so far. 


Bob,

with Piezo Museum Black the dmax for Condor BW is 1.54.
HPR = 1.65

Don't know if this holds up with other inks yet. Tests are in progress....



Antonis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Rancier" 
<randy_rancier2004@y...> wrote:
> I've seen Paul Roark say that the Moab Entrada White, as opposed to 
> the Natural, is almost identical to the Condor, and cost less.

Randy,

Moab Entrada 300 Natural with Museum Black = 1.61 dmax

As I said in the previous message tests are still in progress to cover
other inksets....


Antonis

Antonis: I'm curious, can you visually discern a difference between a
DMax of 1.54 and 1.65? Maybe my eye is fooled by the fact that the
Condor BW is a more neutral black. Who knows, maybe the DMax
difference between the two papers varies with the ink as you
contemplated. 

I'm very simplistic in my approach using the old "looks good, looks
even better" rule of thumb. 

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis"
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> The D-Max appears to my eye to be the same as HPR.
> > I'm really liking this paper so far. 
> 
> 
> Bob,
> 
> with Piezo Museum Black the dmax for Condor BW is 1.54.
> HPR = 1.65
> 
> Don't know if this holds up with other inks yet. Tests are in
progress....

> 
> 
> 
> Antonis

> that when i go to print, there are no curves in the quadtone rip section of the gimp 
driver. Just a blend box. I have run the installer a few times and get no errors. Where is the 
curves drop box supposed to be?

If you double click the CurvDropBox Alias - that's in th e CurveDesign folder a folder 
should show names "quadtone". It's in a cups folder that's invisable.

When you use the install script for the profiles what message to you get? 

You might want to Repair Disk Permissions from DiskUtility.

Was Photoshop running or not when you install the profiles? Photoshop should not be 
running.

>I made a folder for qtr stuff and have it in there. My guess is that it goes in the system 
folder. 

No....All the QTR stuff goes into the Apps. folder.

Best,

John V

Bob,

I provided the numbers just for reference. In part because you refered
to dmax for these papers and in part because I just happened to start
a series of comparisons among the top players to see how they do 
with different inks.

Unlike some years back when dmax was everything, I think we've all
come to see it as just another variable. And, yes, if I put the 2 papers
side by side and look really carefully, I can see the 0.10 difference.
But does it matter in a real photograph - or more to the point does
it matter in a particular style of photograph? 

Looking at Condor BW by itself it had a very satisfying velvety black
and I saw nothing wrong with that. Merlin, in fact, held an even better
black. Once these dmax numbers get this close, other factors become
more important ... price, surface, weight, color etc. I very much like
both of these papers and consider them in the top class for digital BW.

We are fortunate to have an ever expanding range of choices these
days. In fact, it's getting so wide that I'm starting an xl sheet  to keep
track - again. The old paper database of a few years back is completely
obsolete and now looking rather naive. Plus now I have a much better
way to reach a meaningful dmax value that is free of profile- and driver-
bias. With any luck, eventually I'll cover the main inksets (UT, UC, Piezo).
For now, I only have Museum Black numbers - cause that's what's in
the 9500.

So, in short, yes: if to your eyes it looks good, measurements be damned!

:   )

Antonis



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Michaels" 
<bob@b...> wrote:

> Antonis: I'm curious, can you visually discern a difference between a
> DMax of 1.54 and 1.65? Maybe my eye is fooled by the fact that the
> Condor BW is a more neutral black. Who knows, maybe the DMax
> difference between the two papers varies with the ink as you
> contemplated. 
> 
> I'm very simplistic in my approach using the old "looks good, looks
> even better" rule of thumb. 
> 
> Bob Michaels

ok..there must be some trick to getting this installed. I just tried it 
again with PS NOT running...still the same lack of curves to choose 
from. When I open the curves drop box, there is a folder inside the 
quadtone folder named 1280, and inside there are a bunch of files with 
the suffix .quad.
I have moved my folder which I named "quadtone stuff" to the apps 
folder. This quadtone stuff folder was not made by the installer. There 
was no folder made by the installer in the apps folder. Is the 
installer supposed to create a folder inside the apps folder?
On Aug 12, 2004, at 6:26 PM, John Vitollo wrote:

> > that when i go to print, there are no curves in the quadtone rip 
> section of the gimp
>  driver. Just a blend box. I have run the installer a few times and 
> get no errors. Where is the
>  curves drop box supposed to be?
>
>  If you double click the CurvDropBox Alias - that's in th e 
> CurveDesign folder a folder
>  should show names "quadtone". It's in a cups folder that's invisable.
>
>  When you use the install script for the profiles what message to you 
> get?
>
>  You might want to Repair Disk Permissions from DiskUtility.
>
>  Was Photoshop running or not when you install the profiles? Photoshop 
> should not be
>  running.
>
>  >I made a folder for qtr stuff and have it in there. My guess is that 
> it goes in the system
>  folder.
>
>  No....All the QTR stuff goes into the Apps. folder.
>
>  Best,
>
>  John V
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Doug,

I'm not at all sure what you've done so far so let's backtrack a little.
I'm assuming you are running Mac OS X 10.3 Panther, and
it does seem that you have the QTR beta9 download installed.

------
Download the profiles from the web -- 1270-UT2 is the link.
In Print Setup get rid of printers you've made for QTR.   They probably
should be named Quad1280.    In the download there's a file 
called Install1280, with the printer on and plugged-in double-click
on this install script.  You should see some reassuring messages
about creating and installing curves.  That's all to installation. 

Restart PS if it was running.You will probably want to read ReadMe files ab=
out
setting parameters in the Print dialogs.

Roy


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Meeuwsen 
<lipshurt@m...> wrote:

> ok..there must be some trick to getting this installed. I just tried it 
> again with PS NOT running...still the same lack of curves to choose 
> from. When I open the curves drop box, there is a folder inside the 
> quadtone folder named 1280, and inside there are a bunch of files with 
> the suffix .quad.
> I have moved my folder which I named "quadtone stuff" to the apps 
> folder. This quadtone stuff folder was not made by the installer. There 
> was no folder made by the installer in the apps folder. Is the 
> installer supposed to create a folder inside the apps folder?
> On Aug 12, 2004, at 6:26 PM, John Vitollo wrote:
> 
> > > that when i go to print, there are no curves in the quadtone rip 
> > section of the gimp
> >  driver. Just a blend box. I have run the installer a few times and 
> > get no errors. Where is the
> >  curves drop box supposed to be?
> >
> >  If you double click the CurvDropBox Alias - that's in th e 
> > CurveDesign folder a folder
> >  should show names "quadtone". It's in a cups folder that's invisable.
> >
> >  When you use the install script for the profiles what message to you 
> > get?
> >
> >  You might want to Repair Disk Permissions from DiskUtility.
> >
> >  Was Photoshop running or not when you install the profiles? Photoshop =

> > should not be
> >  running.
> >
> >  >I made a folder for qtr stuff and have it in there. My guess is that =

> > it goes in the system
> >  folder.
> >
> >  No....All the QTR stuff goes into the Apps. folder.
> >
> >  Best,
> >
> >  John V
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> > this same page.
> >
> >  Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to =

> > keep them short.
> >  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from =

> > the membership without notice.
> >  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> > removed from the membership.
> >  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
> > Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> >  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" =

> > AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT =

> > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> > <yhoo0504_testb_300250a052604.gif>
> > <l.gif>
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > 	• 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
> >  
> > 	• 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >  
> > 	• 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
> > Service.
> >
> >  
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is anyone aware if the Epson 9500 is capable of black
only printing (like the small format printers)?  I now
have one available for use and would like to make a
few giant bo prints.  Anything that I should be aware
of, or printing tips would be greatly appreciated as
well as bo quality in general with this beast.  The
color carts have to stay, so I can't swap out UT or
piezo inks.

Thanks in advance for any advice,
Don


		
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