Digital BW, The Print

I would like to print decent black and white photos. I know I will 
need to do this with a dedicated BW printer. I plan to purchase an 
Epson 1280 for this, because I can at least print Black Only with it. 
I have a Canon 9000 now and it makes really great color but not very 
good black and white. They have a color tint depending on the paper. 
I usually use Red River paper. I like the Canon for ease of refilling 
ink cartridges. I can do that without taking them out of the printer.

I use Paint Shop Pro, and Qimage.

What ink would be the easiest - just stick in cartridges and print 
decent black and white prints. I also want to refill my ink 
cartridges.

I have many hundreds of old black/white negatives from a long time 
ago I would like to print. They don't have to be museum quality and 
they don't have to last for a hundred years. I have maybe a year to 
enjoy them. I don't want to spend my remaining time being a techno 
about this, I just want to make decent black and white prints from my 
negatives, not somthing with a greenish tint like I get now with my 
color printer.

What will I get the best results from, with the least amount of time 
and effort put into it?  Lyson Quad Black, MIS, what??

Appreciate your advice.

Thanks -  John

I've been making very nice black and white images with my S9000 for a 
couple of years, using Lyson Quad Black inks.  You can buy these inks in 
bulk and refill cartridges just as easily as with color inks.  I bought a 
second Canon, an S900, and now have one printer for color and one for B&W, 
and can swap the print heads in case the carriage on one of the printers 
goes out.  (I also keep a spare print head on hand, in case a head dies - I 
think I'm pretty well prepared for any disaster.)  Lyson Quad Black 
prefilled cartridges are very expensive and not easily refilled, so you 
wouldn't want to plan on going that way on a permanent basis.  But you 
could try a set and see how you like them, and if you decide to go that 
route get some virgin empties and bulk inks and refill your own.  I get 
virgin empties from Inkjet Goodies, and the ink from Marrutt in England - 
good pricing, very responsive and free shipping to the US.

For the simplest B&W printing that I'm aware of, that also lets you do 
Black Only printing if you like, look at an Epson C84 with MIS EZ 
inks.  Except for the need to reset the computer chip in the cartridge when 
refilling, aftermarket C84 cartridges are almost as easy to refill as the 
Canon ones (Epson brand carts cannot be refilled easily - the aftermarket 
models I get from MIS have a sponge compartment and reservoir similar to 
the Canon layout.)  Chip resetting really takes just a $20 (or less) 
hardware item and one extra step in the refill process - you wouldn't think 
anything of it if you hadn't already refilled Canon carts without the 
step.  MIS has announced a translucent cartridge for the C84, which will 
make refilling just as simple as with a Canon cart - at the moment the 
virgin empties they supply are opaque, so you refill until the reservoir 
overflows, which is a bit messier than with a Canon.

The C84 is not as fast as a Canon printer, but it uses pigment inks which 
theoretically will last longer than the dye inks that the Canon needs. I 
like the results with the C84 a lot.  Tone of the print can be varied from 
neutral to quite warm by appropriate placement of neutral or warm inks in 
the C, M and Y positions, and the overall tone can also be adjusted pretty 
dramatically by the choice of paper - some are very cool while others are 
quite warm.  The disadvantage of the C84/EZ ink system is that it cannot 
take variable tone inks like you could put in a 1280 - you can vary the 
tone of the printed output by selecting the appropriate neutral or warm 
inks to load into the printer, and by the choice of paper, but you cannot 
easily change from a cool to a warm print on the same paper with just some 
menu selections, like you can with variable ink sets on other 
printers.  You also have to decide whether you're going to print on matte 
or glossy paper, as you have to use a different black ink for each paper 
type.  I've decided that matte paper works for me (I used to think 
otherwise) and have settled on an EZ ink setup that works for me.  If you 
decide to go with a C84 you could try a set of the prefilled EZ cartridges 
from MIS and see for yourself - if you like the results, you can refill the 
MIS cartridges, or go to a CIS if you're going to do a lot of printing.

Cheers,
Kip

At 9/6/2004 07:50 PM +0000, John wrote:

>I would like to print decent black and white photos. I know I will
>need to do this with a dedicated BW printer. I plan to purchase an
>Epson 1280 for this, because I can at least print Black Only with it.
>I have a Canon 9000 now and it makes really great color but not very
>good black and white. They have a color tint depending on the paper.
>I usually use Red River paper. I like the Canon for ease of refilling
>ink cartridges. I can do that without taking them out of the printer.
>
>I use Paint Shop Pro, and Qimage.
>
>What ink would be the easiest - just stick in cartridges and print
>decent black and white prints. I also want to refill my ink
>cartridges.
>
>I have many hundreds of old black/white negatives from a long time
>ago I would like to print. They don't have to be museum quality and
>they don't have to last for a hundred years. I have maybe a year to
>enjoy them. I don't want to spend my remaining time being a techno
>about this, I just want to make decent black and white prints from my
>negatives, not somthing with a greenish tint like I get now with my
>color printer.
>
>What will I get the best results from, with the least amount of time
>and effort put into it?  Lyson Quad Black, MIS, what??

John,

The MIS UT2 inkset for the 1280 can print from grayscale files, and no real
workflow at all is needed.  The sliders can make some tone adjustments, and,
of course, at least a 720 resolution is needed for good quality. 

Pre-filled carts are probably the easiest way to go.  Bulk ink is cheaper,
of course.

Even though longevity is not a primary issue, it might be nice to know that
family or other significant photos should still be in very good shape for
generations.

Good luck.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
____________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: jrb1934 [mailto:jrb1934@...] 
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 11:51 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Easy B&W print

I would like to print decent black and white photos. I know I will 
need to do this with a dedicated BW printer. I plan to purchase an 
Epson 1280 for this, because I can at least print Black Only with it. 
I have a Canon 9000 now and it makes really great color but not very 
good black and white. They have a color tint depending on the paper. 
I usually use Red River paper. I like the Canon for ease of refilling 
ink cartridges. I can do that without taking them out of the printer.

I use Paint Shop Pro, and Qimage.

What ink would be the easiest - just stick in cartridges and print 
decent black and white prints. I also want to refill my ink 
cartridges.

I have many hundreds of old black/white negatives from a long time 
ago I would like to print. They don't have to be museum quality and 
they don't have to last for a hundred years. I have maybe a year to 
enjoy them. I don't want to spend my remaining time being a techno 
about this, I just want to make decent black and white prints from my 
negatives, not somthing with a greenish tint like I get now with my 
color printer.

What will I get the best results from, with the least amount of time 
and effort put into it?  Lyson Quad Black, MIS, what??

Appreciate your advice.

Thanks -  John






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"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
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ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
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MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
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Kip,
  I have used the MIS EZ inks on 2 different C84s and found that they
absolutely do not print dark enough in midtones, and adjusting sliders
does not help, on Epson Premium Glossy. I have not yet tried matte. 
   Did you have this problem with the Epson matte paper ?

                    Stuart

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Kip Babington
<cbabing3@s...> wrote:
> I've been making very nice black and white images with my S9000 for a 
> couple of years, using Lyson Quad Black inks.  You can buy these
inks in 
> bulk and refill cartridges just as easily as with color inks.  I
bought a 
> second Canon, an S900, and now have one printer for color and one
for B&W, 
> and can swap the print heads in case the carriage on one of the
printers 
> goes out.  (I also keep a spare print head on hand, in case a head
dies - I 
> think I'm pretty well prepared for any disaster.)  Lyson Quad Black 
> prefilled cartridges are very expensive and not easily refilled, so you 
> wouldn't want to plan on going that way on a permanent basis.  But you 
> could try a set and see how you like them, and if you decide to go that 
> route get some virgin empties and bulk inks and refill your own.  I get 
> virgin empties from Inkjet Goodies, and the ink from Marrutt in
England - 
> good pricing, very responsive and free shipping to the US.
> 
> For the simplest B&W printing that I'm aware of, that also lets you do 
> Black Only printing if you like, look at an Epson C84 with MIS EZ 
> inks.  Except for the need to reset the computer chip in the
cartridge when 
> refilling, aftermarket C84 cartridges are almost as easy to refill
as the 
> Canon ones (Epson brand carts cannot be refilled easily - the
aftermarket 
> models I get from MIS have a sponge compartment and reservoir
similar to 
> the Canon layout.)  Chip resetting really takes just a $20 (or less) 
> hardware item and one extra step in the refill process - you
wouldn't think 
> anything of it if you hadn't already refilled Canon carts without the 
> step.  MIS has announced a translucent cartridge for the C84, which
will 
> make refilling just as simple as with a Canon cart - at the moment the 
> virgin empties they supply are opaque, so you refill until the
reservoir 
> overflows, which is a bit messier than with a Canon.
> 
> The C84 is not as fast as a Canon printer, but it uses pigment inks
which 
> theoretically will last longer than the dye inks that the Canon
needs. I 
> like the results with the C84 a lot.  Tone of the print can be
varied from 
> neutral to quite warm by appropriate placement of neutral or warm
inks in 
> the C, M and Y positions, and the overall tone can also be adjusted
pretty 
> dramatically by the choice of paper - some are very cool while
others are 
> quite warm.  The disadvantage of the C84/EZ ink system is that it
cannot 
> take variable tone inks like you could put in a 1280 - you can vary the 
> tone of the printed output by selecting the appropriate neutral or warm 
> inks to load into the printer, and by the choice of paper, but you
cannot 
> easily change from a cool to a warm print on the same paper with
just some 
> menu selections, like you can with variable ink sets on other 
> printers.  You also have to decide whether you're going to print on
matte 
> or glossy paper, as you have to use a different black ink for each
paper 
> type.  I've decided that matte paper works for me (I used to think 
> otherwise) and have settled on an EZ ink setup that works for me. 
If you 
> decide to go with a C84 you could try a set of the prefilled EZ
cartridges 
> from MIS and see for yourself - if you like the results, you can
refill the 

> MIS cartridges, or go to a CIS if you're going to do a lot of printing.
> 
> Cheers,
> Kip
> 
> At 9/6/2004 07:50 PM +0000, John wrote:
> >I would like to print decent black and white photos. I know I will
> >need to do this with a dedicated BW printer. I plan to purchase an
> >Epson 1280 for this, because I can at least print Black Only with it.
> >I have a Canon 9000 now and it makes really great color but not very
> >good black and white. They have a color tint depending on the paper.
> >I usually use Red River paper. I like the Canon for ease of refilling
> >ink cartridges. I can do that without taking them out of the printer.
> >
> >I use Paint Shop Pro, and Qimage.
> >
> >What ink would be the easiest - just stick in cartridges and print
> >decent black and white prints. I also want to refill my ink
> >cartridges.
> >
> >I have many hundreds of old black/white negatives from a long time
> >ago I would like to print. They don't have to be museum quality and
> >they don't have to last for a hundred years. I have maybe a year to
> >enjoy them. I don't want to spend my remaining time being a techno
> >about this, I just want to make decent black and white prints from my
> >negatives, not somthing with a greenish tint like I get now with my
> >color printer.
> >
> >What will I get the best results from, with the least amount of time
> >and effort put into it?  Lyson Quad Black, MIS, what??

>I would like to print decent black and white photos. . . . .What ink would
be the easiest - just stick in cartridges and print decent black and white
prints. I also want to refill my ink
cartridges.

The "easiest" way I know of to get "decent" (actually much better than
decent) black and white prints is to just pirnt black only using MIS Eboni
black ink. You'll get excellent results and can refill the cartridges using
the little syringe and gizmo attachment that MIS sells for about $2 (while I
have the syringe, I haven't yet tried this myself).  I have two printers,
the Epson 1280 and the Epson 2200. I have MIS VM inks in the 1280 which I
use with the curves from the MIS web site and the MIS Eboni black in the
2200 along with the Epson color inks. The MIS VM inks worked great for about
two years with my former 1160 printer and with the 1280 for a while but for
the last six months or so I've had a terrible time getting neutral blacks
and midtones, everything has a kind of purplish in the neutral cold setting.
The last time this happened it turned out I had a defective cartridge and
perhaps that's again the problem.I haven't pursued it because I've started
printing black only on the 2200 and getting wonderfully neutral prints with
great blacks. I haven't yet observed the "dots" in the highlights that this
method is supposed to produce but then my largest prints so far have been
9.5" on the long side. Maybe I'd see the dots if I printed larger. But if
"easy" and "decent" are your criteria I don't think there's a better way
than black only, at least in my admittedly limited experience.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jrb1934" <jrb1934@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 3:50 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Easy B&W print


I would like to print decent black and white photos. I know I will
need to do this with a dedicated BW printer. I plan to purchase an
Epson 1280 for this, because I can at least print Black Only with it.
I have a Canon 9000 now and it makes really great color but not very
good black and white. They have a color tint depending on the paper.
I usually use Red River paper. I like the Canon for ease of refilling
ink cartridges. I can do that without taking them out of the printer.

I use Paint Shop Pro, and Qimage.

What ink would be the easiest - just stick in cartridges and print
decent black and white prints. I also want to refill my ink
cartridges.

I have many hundreds of old black/white negatives from a long time
ago I would like to print. They don't have to be museum quality and
they don't have to last for a hundred years. I have maybe a year to
enjoy them. I don't want to spend my remaining time being a techno
about this, I just want to make decent black and white prints from my
negatives, not somthing with a greenish tint like I get now with my
color printer.

What will I get the best results from, with the least amount of time
and effort put into it?  Lyson Quad Black, MIS, what??

Appreciate your advice.

Thanks -  John






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hello B.,

>The "easiest" way I know of to get "decent" (actually much better 
>than decent) black and white prints is to just pirnt black only 
>using MIS Eboni black ink. 
>...I've started printing black only on the 2200 and getting 
>wonderfully neutral prints with great blacks. I haven't yet 
>observed the "dots" in the highlights that this method is supposed 
>to produce but then my largest prints so far have been 9.5" on the 
>long side. Maybe I'd see the dots if I printed larger. 

Actually you are more likely to notice them if you print smaller
because it requires a closer viewing distance.  The dots aren't like
grain.  They don't get bigger with a bigger print.  The dots are the
same no matter what size the print is.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm