Digital BW, The Print

I've recently got my new Epson 1280 up and running using the MIS VM 
ink set (with the MIS continuous feed system) and the workflow and 
curves developed by Paul Rourk et al.  The results on EAM are 
stunning. I have two questions however.

First, I've just started experimenting with Museo.  Although I like 
the weight and feel of the paper, my first several prints are showing 
some sloppiness in the "mid-shadows" (not the darkest blacks) that 
looks like mottling or "poserization." It appears that the Museo may 
be more absorbant than the EAM and is soaking too much ink in these 
areas.  Any suggestions for dealing with this?  I'm wondering whether 
different paper settings in the driver might help.

Second, I see that there are three different "neutral" curves in the 
files.  What is the difference among these?

Thanks for any help.

Hi christopher.patti-

Have you given the prints some time to dry down?  I noticed when printing
step wedges and developing adjustment curves for Somerset Enhanced and Museo
that the print goes through marked changes for about an hour after printing.
Areas that start out mottled become smooth, and steps that are
indistinguishable begin to separate.

Have you printed out a step wedge?  That should show you exactly where the
problem is.

Bill Morse
PhotoProspect
Cambridge, MA 

on 10/28/01 11:35 AM, christopher.patti@... wrote:

First, I've just started experimenting with Museo.  Although I like
the weight and feel of the paper, my first several prints are showing
some sloppiness in the "mid-shadows" (not the darkest blacks) that
looks like mottling or "poserization."




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Christopher,

Which version of the curves are you using?

All of Paul's curves are optimized for EAM. Once you move to other 
papers you need to do your own addjustments to get the results you 
are looking for. Trying a different paper setting is certainly one 
think to try. Consider creating an adjustment curve in Photoshop that 
you can save for use with Museo.

Martin Wesley


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., christopher.patti@u... 
wrote:
> I've recently got my new Epson 1280 up and running using the MIS VM 
> ink set (with the MIS continuous feed system) and the workflow and 
> curves developed by Paul Rourk et al.  The results on EAM are 
> stunning. I have two questions however.
> 
> First, I've just started experimenting with Museo.  Although I like 
> the weight and feel of the paper, my first several prints are 
showing 
> some sloppiness in the "mid-shadows" (not the darkest blacks) that 
> looks like mottling or "poserization." It appears that the Museo 
may 
> be more absorbant than the EAM and is soaking too much ink in these 
> areas.  Any suggestions for dealing with this?  I'm wondering 
whether 
> different paper settings in the driver might help.
> 
> Second, I see that there are three different "neutral" curves in 
the 

> files.  What is the difference among these?
> 
> Thanks for any help.

Bill,

The problem does seem less pronounced after some drying time, but 
it's still there even a day later.  I'll try the step wedge 
suggestions, thanks.

Chris Patti

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Bill Morse <willym@b...> 
wrote:
> Hi christopher.patti-
> 
> Have you given the prints some time to dry down?  I noticed when 
printing
> step wedges and developing adjustment curves for Somerset Enhanced 
and Museo
> that the print goes through marked changes for about an hour after 
printing.
> Areas that start out mottled become smooth, and steps that are
> indistinguishable begin to separate.
> 
> Have you printed out a step wedge?  That should show you exactly 
where the
> problem is.
> 
> Bill Morse
> PhotoProspect
> Cambridge, MA 
> 
> on 10/28/01 11:35 AM, christopher.patti@u... wrote:
> 
> First, I've just started experimenting with Museo.  Although I like
> the weight and feel of the paper, my first several prints are 
showing

> some sloppiness in the "mid-shadows" (not the darkest blacks) that
> looks like mottling or "poserization."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Martin,

Thanks for the response.  

> Which version of the curves are you using?

I'm using the version 8 curves (e.g., vmp8-mw8), which I understand 
to be the most recent.  

> 
> All of Paul's curves are optimized for EAM. Once you move to other 
> papers you need to do your own addjustments to get the results you 
> are looking for. Trying a different paper setting is certainly one 
> think to try. 

I'll experiment with this, but I assume that I should be going in the 
direction of a paper setting that lays down less ink than "Photo 
Paper."  Anybody know which those are?

>Consider creating an adjustment curve in Photoshop that 
> you can save for use with Museo.

The curves are a bit like black magic to me, so I don't know where to 
start to develop adjustment curves for Museo, but I'd be game to try 
if anyone cares to point me in the right direction.  I use an image 
editor other than Photoshop, but I've generally been able to figure 
out how to translate PS instructions.

Chris Patti

Chris,

You wrote:

>... Epson 1280 ... using the MIS VM ink set ...
> and the workflow and curves developed by Paul Roark et al.
>The results on EAM are stunning.

>... Museo. ...some sloppiness in the "mid-shadows"
>(not the darkest blacks) that looks like mottling or
>"posterization." ...

I find in my 1160 Museo prints very nicely with the MIS VM inks and with the
same profile as EAM (which means none with the MIS VM inkset).  In my 3000,
however, it becomes mottled, no matter which of the tone curves is used.  I
think the two 4-ink printers are probably putting about the same amount of
ink down, but there is a definite difference in how the paper looks in the
different printers.  I've heard from a 3000-Piezo user that Museo also does
not look good on his system.  I have no idea why the paper seems to react
differently in the different printers.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., christopher.patti@u... 
wrote:
> Martin,
> 
> Thanks for the response.  
> 
> > Which version of the curves are you using?
> 
> I'm using the version 8 curves (e.g., vmp8-mw8), which I understand 
> to be the most recent.  

Should have also asked if you were on a Mac or PC. The lateset PC 
curves are version 13.

> 
> > 
> > All of Paul's curves are optimized for EAM. Once you move to 
other 
> > papers you need to do your own addjustments to get the results 
you 
> > are looking for. Trying a different paper setting is certainly 
one 
> > think to try. 
> 
> I'll experiment with this, but I assume that I should be going in 
the 
> direction of a paper setting that lays down less ink than "Photo 
> Paper."  Anybody know which those are?

The glossier the media the less ink the Epson driver puts down. If 
you take the paper list in the driver in order the top choices lay 
down more ink than the bottom ones.

> 
> >Consider creating an adjustment curve in Photoshop that 
> > you can save for use with Museo.
> 
> The curves are a bit like black magic to me, so I don't know where 
to 
> start to develop adjustment curves for Museo, but I'd be game to 
try 
> if anyone cares to point me in the right direction.  I use an image 
> editor other than Photoshop, but I've generally been able to figure 
> out how to translate PS instructions.

Print out a 21-step wedge on EAM and Museo. Compare the two and then 
add a curve adjustment layer to the file. Based on the comparison 
adjust the points on the curve. Print another wedge on Museo. 
Evaluate the results. Re-adjust the curve. Print again, etc. Until 
you have a good match between the EAM and Museo wedges. Save the 
curve. 

Tedious but think of it as basic skill building for working digitally.

Martin Wesley

Martin,

> > 
> > > Which version of the curves are you using?
> > 
> > I'm using the version 8 curves (e.g., vmp8-mw8), which I 
understand 
> > to be the most recent.  
> 
> Should have also asked if you were on a Mac or PC. The lateset PC 
> curves are version 13.
> 

I'm using a PC.  The curves I see in the files section of this board 
for the 1280 appear to be version 8 (my understanding of what the 
final "8" in the name means).  Are the version 13 curves available 
for download somewhere?

Thanks,

Chris Patti