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Epson Matte Papers Question

Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-11 by Kim Fullbrook

Epson Enhanced Matte (also known as Archival Matte) is a popular paper for
black & white work.

Recently I visited B&H in NYC to buy a 17 inch wide roll of EEM. The paper I
was given had the Epson product code SO 41746 and was actually labelled as
"Singleweight Matte". At the time I was assured that this is the same paper
as EEM but now I'm home and have surfed the web am not so sure.  I can't
find SO 41746 on the Epson US web site, but on the Epson UK site it shows
both this paper type and EEM under different codes which makes me think they
are different
http://www.buyepson.co.uk/category.asp?mainunit=StylusPro4000&category_name=
Inkjet+media&dept=Consumables

B&H are a reputable supplier and their web site still shows this Epson
product code as EEM - I'm sure I can't be the first person to find this
discrepancy.  For now I've not broken the seal on the roll in case I need to
send it back.  Is there anyone here who has used "Singleweight Matte" who
can comment ?  Maybe it is the same, or maybe it's just as good. ?

Kim.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-11 by D. Hill

Kim,

B&H may be inexpensive, but less than reputable.  You
may have grey market paper, but they won't tell you.


> B&H are a reputable supplier and their web site
> still shows this Epson
> product code as EEM - I'm sure I can't be the first
> person to find this
> discrepancy.  For now I've not broken the seal on
> the roll in case I need to
> send it back.  Is there anyone here who has used
> "Singleweight Matte" who
> can comment ?  Maybe it is the same, or maybe it's
> just as good. ?
> 
> Kim.



		
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Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-11 by andrei aderca

Sorry to drift off-topic. My experience with B&H has been the reverse,
that is reputable and not inexpensive.

Regards

Andrei
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: D. Hill 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 11:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question


  Kim,

  B&H may be inexpensive, but less than reputable.  You
  may have grey market paper, but they won't tell you.


  > B&H are a reputable supplier and their web site
  > still shows this Epson
  > product code as EEM - I'm sure I can't be the first
  > person to find this
  > discrepancy.  For now I've not broken the seal on
  > the roll in case I need to
  > send it back.  Is there anyone here who has used
  > "Singleweight Matte" who
  > can comment ?  Maybe it is the same, or maybe it's
  > just as good. ?
  > 
  > Kim.



              
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-11 by Brentley Beerline

You are kidding right?  B&H is one the most reputable companies selling on
the web.  Don't confuse them with some of the other New York stores selling
on the web.
 
Has the original poster tried calling them to see what they suggest?  

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: D. Hill [mailto:hill14701@...] 
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 08:33
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question


Kim,

B&H may be inexpensive, but less than reputable.  You
may have grey market paper, but they won't tell you.


> B&H are a reputable supplier and their web site
> still shows this Epson
> product code as EEM - I'm sure I can't be the first
> person to find this
> discrepancy.  For now I've not broken the seal on
> the roll in case I need to
> send it back.  Is there anyone here who has used
> "Singleweight Matte" who
> can comment ?  Maybe it is the same, or maybe it's
> just as good. ?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-11 by Richard Sintchak

I could NOT disagree more.  B&H is one of the most reputable, if not
THE most reputable, of the New York photography houses out there.  I
have bought from them for years and have always found them
straight-forward and honest in their dealings.

Richard
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: D. Hill <hill14701@...>
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question
To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com

Kim,

B&H may be inexpensive, but less than reputable.  You
may have grey market paper, but they won't tell you.

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-11 by Mark Savoia

And I have heard nothing but complaints and I personally have had 
problems.
Take this as you may.
Mark

On Sep 11, 2004, at 12:40 PM, Richard Sintchak wrote:

> I could NOT disagree more.� B&H is one of the most reputable, if not
>  THE most reputable, of the New York photography houses out there.� I
>  have bought from them for years and have always found them
>  straight-forward and honest in their dealings.
>
>  Richard
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: D. Hill <hill14701@...>
>  Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
>  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question
>  To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Kim,
>
>  B&H may be inexpensive, but less than reputable.� You
>  may have grey market paper, but they won't tell you.
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
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Re: Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-11 by Antonis

Kim,

my vote would be to return it and get the paper somewhere else.
Unless it says the right thing on the box, with the EEM specs, code etc
it's not worth your trouble to find out the hard way. Epson paper names
are confusing enough as it is. The only way to know what you are buying 
is to stick with the name and code of the  particular  paper you want.
Look at Lexjet as an example (prices may be too high to buy) of how codes
and names seem more consistent...


Antonis



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Kim Fullbrook" 
<photo@f...> wrote:
> Epson Enhanced Matte (also known as Archival Matte) is a popular paper 
for
> black & white work.
> 
> Recently I visited B&H in NYC to buy a 17 inch wide roll of EEM. The paper I
> was given had the Epson product code SO 41746 and was actually labelled 
as
> "Singleweight Matte". At the time I was assured that this is the same paper
> as EEM but now I'm home and have surfed the web am not so sure.

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-11 by Richard Sintchak

"Heard nothing but complaints"?  Sorry, I find this very hard to
believe.  Where have you heard these complaints and what were your
problems SPECIFICALLY?  Details please.

My personal experience in over 30 mail orders and from postings on
Yahoo forums and photo.net their reputation and other's experiences is
exactly opposite to yours.

In the photo world overall B&H is one of the most recommended mail
order houses out there.  See here: 
http://www.photo.net/neighbor/one-subcategory?id=2

Scroll down to B&H and see the comments. 

Sorry to hear you've had bad experiences.  You are missing out on the
best priced honest photo house out there.  Of course if you provide us
details I'd be very interested to hear them.  But somehow whenever
someone out there complians about B&H and others ask for details we
rarely if ever here back.  Troll?  Competitor?  Who knows.....

Richard
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:45:16 -0400, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:
> And I have heard nothing but complaints and I personally have had
> problems.
> Take this as you may.
> Mark
> 
> On Sep 11, 2004, at 12:40 PM, Richard Sintchak wrote:
> 
> > I could NOT disagree more.  B&H is one of the most reputable, if not
> >  THE most reputable, of the New York photography houses out there.  I
> >  have bought from them for years and have always found them
> >  straight-forward and honest in their dealings.
> >
> >  Richard
> >
> >

RE: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-11 by Nelson Ricciardi

Me too.

B&H was a nightmare.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Savoia [mailto:mark@...] 
> Sent: sábado, 11 de setembro de 2004 13:45
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question
> 
> 
> And I have heard nothing but complaints and I personally have had 
> problems.
> Take this as you may.
> Mark
> 
> On Sep 11, 2004, at 12:40 PM, Richard Sintchak wrote:
> 
> > I could NOT disagree more.  B&H is one of the most reputable, if not
> >  THE most reputable, of the New York photography houses out 
> there.  I
> >  have bought from them for years and have always found them
> >  straight-forward and honest in their dealings.
> >
> >  Richard
> >
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> >  From: D. Hill <hill14701@...>
> >  Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
> >  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question
> >  To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >  Kim,
> >
> >  B&H may be inexpensive, but less than reputable.  You
> >  may have grey market paper, but they won't tell you.
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, 
> or you wish 
> > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> > this same page.
> >
> >  Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to 
> > keep them short.
> >  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> removed from 
> > the membership without notice.
> >  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic 
> of digital 
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> > removed from the membership.
> >  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> rules and 
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> > Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and 
> Guidelines” in the 
> > Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> >  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
> THE “OWNER” 
> > AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
> INTANGIBLE 
> > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL 
> BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF 
> ANY THIRD 
> > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> >
> >
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> messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
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> Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
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> 
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> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
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> YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
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RE: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-11 by don.swanson

I have checked Epson SO41746 roll paper under the Epson 4000 on Atlex.com.
They show SO41746 under Epson Singleweight Matte, 17" by 50' roll @ 44.95
list.
They show SO41725 under Epson Enhanced Matte, 17" by 100' roll @ 59.95 list.
Both say Email for current price.

It seems that B&H has screwed up on your order and I'm sure they would
replace it but the shipping and customs charges would eliminate any
satisfaction you would get. Definitely contact an executive at B&H, explain
everything, especially their error, and they may make you and adjustment
offer.

It does appear that the Singleweight Matte is a better paper than EEM based
on the price. 1/2 as much on the roll for only slightly less money.

Check out Atlex, under Epson, 4000 at http://www.atlex.com/

Hope this helps,
Don
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Fullbrook [mailto:photo@...]
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 2:07 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question


Epson Enhanced Matte (also known as Archival Matte) is a popular paper for
black & white work.

Recently I visited B&H in NYC to buy a 17 inch wide roll of EEM. The paper I
was given had the Epson product code SO 41746 and was actually labelled as
"Singleweight Matte". At the time I was assured that this is the same paper
as EEM but now I'm home and have surfed the web am not so sure.  I can't
find SO 41746 on the Epson US web site, but on the Epson UK site it shows
both this paper type and EEM under different codes which makes me think they
are different
http://www.buyepson.co.uk/category.asp?mainunit=StylusPro4000&category_name=
Inkjet+media&dept=Consumables

B&H are a reputable supplier and their web site still shows this Epson
product code as EEM - I'm sure I can't be the first person to find this
discrepancy.  For now I've not broken the seal on the roll in case I need to
send it back.  Is there anyone here who has used "Singleweight Matte" who
can comment ?  Maybe it is the same, or maybe it's just as good. ?

Kim.

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-12 by B. Campbell

You are kidding right?  B&H is one the most reputable companies selling on
the web.

I used to deal with B&H exclusively until they sold me a defective scanner
and refused to accept a return of it, not to mention the fact that Henry
Somebody,  the B&H employee apparently in charge of dealing with customer
problems whose last name I no longer remember, was a complete jerk about the
whole thing. It's a long story that I won't bore anyone with but I don't
consider B&H particularly reputable and after that experience, particularly
Henry's attitude about it, I no longer deal with them.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brentley Beerline" <brentley_beerline@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question



You are kidding right?  B&H is one the most reputable companies selling on
the web.  Don't confuse them with some of the other New York stores selling
on the web.

Has the original poster tried calling them to see what they suggest?

  _____

From: D. Hill [mailto:hill14701@...]
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 08:33
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question


Kim,

B&H may be inexpensive, but less than reputable.  You
may have grey market paper, but they won't tell you.


> B&H are a reputable supplier and their web site
> still shows this Epson
> product code as EEM - I'm sure I can't be the first
> person to find this
> discrepancy.  For now I've not broken the seal on
> the roll in case I need to
> send it back.  Is there anyone here who has used
> "Singleweight Matte" who
> can comment ?  Maybe it is the same, or maybe it's
> just as good. ?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-12 by Stephen Billard

I doubt that they won't tell you, they are very up front on their products.
Even explain the difference between USA warranted and Gray items. Where do
you get the info that they are "less than reputable"?

-Stephen
 www.sbillard.org/Stephen
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: D. Hill [mailto:hill14701@...] 
> Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 8:33 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question
> 
> 
> Kim,
> 
> B&H may be inexpensive, but less than reputable.  You
> may have grey market paper, but they won't tell you.
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-12 by Douglas Meeuwsen

I hesitate to jump in here, But....I once bought a camera from them on 
ebay because the buy it now price was good. Then They charged me $100 
shipping, which made their price the exact same price as all the other 
ebay dealers on the same camera. I thought that was Shady.
  The guy told me that "only an idiot skips the fine print".......not a 
rip-off I guess, but not a good feeling either. DM
On Sep 11, 2004, at 6:39 PM, B. Campbell wrote:

> You are kidding right?  B&H is one the most reputable companies 
> selling on
>  the web.
>
>  I used to deal with B&H exclusively until they sold me a defective 
> scanner
>  and refused to accept a return of it, not to mention the fact that 
> Henry
>  Somebody,  the B&H employee apparently in charge of dealing with 
> customer
>  problems whose last name I no longer remember, was a complete jerk 
> about the
>  whole thing. It's a long story that I won't bore anyone with but I 
> don't
>  consider B&H particularly reputable and after that experience, 
> particularly
>  Henry's attitude about it, I no longer deal with them.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-12 by JimD

I've done a bunch of mail order business with them and B&H are the
greatest. They have been honest, timely and didn't quibble when I returned
a Canon L series used lens that I found not to meet my expectations.

If you've heard nothing but complaints maybe you can provide some details?
If you've had problems, what were they?

-JimD




At 09:45 AM 9/11/2004, Mark Savoia wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>And I have heard nothing but complaints and I personally have had
>problems.
>Take this as you may.
>Mark
>
>On Sep 11, 2004, at 12:40 PM, Richard Sintchak wrote:
>
> > I could NOT disagree more.  B&H is one of the most reputable, if not
> >  THE most reputable, of the New York photography houses out there.  I
> >  have bought from them for years and have always found them
> >  straight-forward and honest in their dealings.
> >
> >  Richard
> >
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> >  From: D. Hill <hill14701@yahoo.com>
> >  Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:33:04 -0700 (PDT)
> >  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question
> >  To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >  Kim,
> >
> >  B&H may be inexpensive, but less than reputable.  You
> >  may have grey market paper, but they won't tell you.
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
> > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
> > this same page.
> >
> >  Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> > keep them short.
> >  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from
> > the membership without notice.
> >  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> > removed from the membership.
> >  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
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> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
> > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD
> > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
> > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
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> >
> >       •       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
>membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
>the membership.
>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner 
>and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND 
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>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
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>
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>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-12 by Dennis W. Manasco

At 8:33 am -0700 9/11/04, D. Hill wrote:

>B&H may be inexpensive, but less than reputable.

I'd like to know the specific details behind this assertion.

We have always known B&H as reputable. They have certainly been 
honest in all of their dealings with us. They are not the most 
inexpensive; you get what you pay for in this case.

My business partner and I have each placed several dozen 
multiple-item orders a year with B&H for a number of years. Neither 
of us has ever had a problem with any product that was caused by B&H, 
nor had any difficulty with returns.

Product fulfillment has always been exact and packaging adequate. 
Shipping has always been quick and returns have always been credited 
promptly. If I have any complaint it is that they charge your card 
when you place your order rather than when it ships (as do most other 
photo suppliers I've dealt with).

Photo-product mail/phone/(and now) net ordering started to become so 
predatory beginning in the early 70s that we had to adopt a 
"buy-little-lose-little" strategy to sample dealers and see who would 
try to burn us. We got burned more that once and winnowed our 
suppliers down accordingly. I've stuck with B&H, and a few others, 
because I've never gotten burned by them.

>You may have grey market paper, but they won't tell you.

It would truly astound me if that were true.

B&H have always been very up-front about grey market on anything I've 
looked at. They even have a page that describes the difference 
between direct-import and grey-market.

The difference between having a real beef with a company and blowing 
slanderous smoke is in a recitation of the details. A detailed 
description of any problems you had would be a welcome way of 
uncovering the veracity of your claim; a failure to provide them 
might indicate your own reliability and repute.


-=-Dennis


.

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-12 by B. Campbell

>A detailed
>description of any problems you had would be a welcome way of
>uncovering the veracity of your claim; a failure to provide them
>might indicate your own reliability and repute.

What are you, the B&H detective? If you want to go around uncovering the
veracity of people's claims and checking out their reliability and repute,
please do it by private e mail.  There's no need to clutter up this group
with detailed descriptions of everyone's experiences with B&H.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis W. Manasco" <dmanasco@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question


At 8:33 am -0700 9/11/04, D. Hill wrote:

>B&H may be inexpensive, but less than reputable.

I'd like to know the specific details behind this assertion.

We have always known B&H as reputable. They have certainly been
honest in all of their dealings with us. They are not the most
inexpensive; you get what you pay for in this case.

My business partner and I have each placed several dozen
multiple-item orders a year with B&H for a number of years. Neither
of us has ever had a problem with any product that was caused by B&H,
nor had any difficulty with returns.

Product fulfillment has always been exact and packaging adequate.
Shipping has always been quick and returns have always been credited
promptly. If I have any complaint it is that they charge your card
when you place your order rather than when it ships (as do most other
photo suppliers I've dealt with).

Photo-product mail/phone/(and now) net ordering started to become so
predatory beginning in the early 70s that we had to adopt a
"buy-little-lose-little" strategy to sample dealers and see who would
try to burn us. We got burned more that once and winnowed our
suppliers down accordingly. I've stuck with B&H, and a few others,
because I've never gotten burned by them.

>You may have grey market paper, but they won't tell you.

It would truly astound me if that were true.

B&H have always been very up-front about grey market on anything I've
looked at. They even have a page that describes the difference
between direct-import and grey-market.

The difference between having a real beef with a company and blowing
slanderous smoke is in a recitation of the details. A detailed
description of any problems you had would be a welcome way of
uncovering the veracity of your claim; a failure to provide them
might indicate your own reliability and repute.


-=-Dennis


.




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question

2004-09-12 by George Roos

>From: Douglas Meeuwsen <lipshurt@...>
>Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question
>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:22:14 -0700
>
>I hesitate to jump in here, But....I once bought a camera from them on
>ebay because the buy it now price was good. Then They charged me $100
>shipping, which made their price the exact same price as all the other
>ebay dealers on the same camera. I thought that was Shady.
>   The guy told me that "only an idiot skips the fine print".......not a
>rip-off I guess, but not a good feeling either. DM
>On Sep 11, 2004, at 6:39 PM, B. Campbell wrote:
>
> > You are kidding right?\ufffd B&H is one the most reputable companies
> > selling on
> >  the web.
> >
> >  I used to deal with B&H exclusively until they sold me a defective
> > scanner
> >  and refused to accept a return of it, not to mention the fact that
> > Henry
> >  Somebody,\ufffd the B&H employee apparently in charge of dealing with
> > customer
> >  problems whose last name I no longer remember, was a complete jerk
> > about the
> >  whole thing. It's a long story that I won't bore anyone with but I
> > don't
> >  consider B&H particularly reputable and after that experience,
> > particularly
> >  Henry's attitude about it, I no longer deal with them.
> >
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I have been dealing with B&H for over twenty years, since the were located 
on 17th Street in Manhatten, before the web. They have always had the best 
prices but over the years I have found Adorama, on 18th St (and on the web) 
to be better to do business with. You might want to check them out.

George Roos

_________________________________________________________________
Don\ufffdt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question - PLEASE STOP

2004-09-12 by virtuallygrey

This is a worldwide discussion Group.  And I'm in it for the 
information about Digital Black and White Printing that I can get 
out and that I can just occasionally contribute to.  I'm not in it 
to listen to comments and complaints about shopping and suppliers in 
NY, or wherever, particularly when I'm in the UK.  There is more 
than enough "on topic" stuff of interest without becoming an on-line 
shopping discussion forum!  Yawn, yawn ... !

It's easy to say just ignore it, but, when it masquerades under its 
originating (and interesting) subject title then it's difficult to 
avoid.

Steve Gledhill
http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk

RE: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question - PLEASE STOP

2004-09-12 by Jim Doyle

Steve

Did You Ever Hear Of The word Delete!

Stop Complaining and Change The Subject Than

Best
Jim
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: virtuallygrey [mailto:stephengledhill@...]
  Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 10:27 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question - PLEASE STOP


  This is a worldwide discussion Group.  And I'm in it for the
  information about Digital Black and White Printing that I can get
  out and that I can just occasionally contribute to.  I'm not in it
  to listen to comments and complaints about shopping and suppliers in
  NY, or wherever, particularly when I'm in the UK.  There is more
  than enough "on topic" stuff of interest without becoming an on-line
  shopping discussion forum!  Yawn, yawn ... !

  It's easy to say just ignore it, but, when it masquerades under its
  originating (and interesting) subject title then it's difficult to
  avoid.

  Steve Gledhill
  http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk



  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



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              ADVERTISEMENT





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    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question - PLEASE STOP

2004-09-12 by Maris V. Lidaka Sr.

Adorama and B&H ship worldwide.  Check out the exchange rate and decide whether to delete the post or read it.

Maris

Maris V. Lidaka, Sr. 
Riga Company
rigaco@...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: virtuallygrey 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 9:26 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question - PLEASE STOP


  This is a worldwide discussion Group.  And I'm in it for the 
  information about Digital Black and White Printing that I can get 
  out and that I can just occasionally contribute to.  I'm not in it 
  to listen to comments and complaints about shopping and suppliers in 
  NY, or wherever, particularly when I'm in the UK.  There is more 
  than enough "on topic" stuff of interest without becoming an on-line 
  shopping discussion forum!  Yawn, yawn ... !

  It's easy to say just ignore it, but, when it masquerades under its 
  originating (and interesting) subject title then it's difficult to 
  avoid.

  Steve Gledhill
  http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk



  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

B&H Rants - was Re: [Digital BW] Epson Matte Papers Question...

2004-09-13 by jimpatel63

I agree with Steve. Yes, we can delete, but change the freaking 
subject line once the subject changes (see subject heading on this 
message for an example) so we don't even have to read the message to 
figure out that we don't want to read it.

This practice of ranting under the original heading is particularly 
annoying when doing a search, as I get a zillion hits that look like 
an answer to my question, and have to click on every single one 
because I don't which one may answer my question.

Once you change the subject line, rant all you want, I don't care.

Another pet peeve is when salespeople call or come by with a 
completely false beginning (hi, I am in a program to overcome 
shyness and improve public speaking, finally leading up into selling 
magazines). Same thing, yes, I can hang up, but takes too long to 
figure out that I want to.

Manoj



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Doyle" 
<jdoyle1713@c...> wrote:
> Steve
> 
> Did You Ever Hear Of The word Delete!
> 
> Stop Complaining and Change The Subject Than
> 
> Best
> Jim
>   It's easy to say just ignore it, but, when it masquerades under 
its
>   originating (and interesting) subject title then it's difficult 
to
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>   avoid.
> 
>   Steve Gledhill
>   http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk
>

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.