Digital BW, The Print

Hey everyone;

Last year I bought I PiezoBW starter kit for my 1160. I had MANY
clogging problems with the cartridges and and I had Micro banding with
the Piezo SW. I was able to eliminate the micro banding by using the
epson driver  <error diffusion>  with Paul Rourks curves <bless Paul>.
However the intermittent / persistent clogs, much wasted ink, and the
HIGH price of the Cone inks really turned me off... to the point of
giving up.

I am now interested in giving the MIS VM inks a try with my Epson 1160. 

Questions:

Are the MIS VM inks less prone to clogging than the Cone Piezo inks?

Are the virgin refillable cartridges a viable option? Are they more
prone to clogging? Should I just get a CIS and not waste my time with
the cartridges? I would prefer to start with the cartridges so I can see
what inks are like before buying a CIS.

One thing that really impressed me about the Piezo inks where the TOTAL
lack of Matemerism and I actually did like their warm tone on EAM. Do
the MIS VM inkset also lack Matemerism in the same way?

Thanks in advance !!

-Jeff

Jeff,
> Questions:
> Are the MIS VM inks less prone to clogging than the Cone Piezo inks?
I have never had a significant clog with MIS using their original 
Quads, VM-hex and now Full Spectrum.  My experience with piezoBW on a 
1160 was the same as yours.

> Are the virgin refillable cartridges a viable option? 
If you are still in the testing inks stage, stay with carts because 
it is tough to change inks without mixing them in a CIS system.

>Should I just get a CIS and not waste my time with
> the cartridges? 
I have the nomorecarts system which I highly recommend but maybe you 
should wait until you have a ink/software system you are happy with.

>I would prefer to start with the cartridges so I can see
> what inks are like before buying a CIS.
Exactly.

> One thing that really impressed me about the Piezo inks where the 
> TOTAL lack of Matemerism and I actually did like their warm tone on 
> EAM. Do the MIS VM inkset also lack Matemerism in the same way?
Haven't noticed metamerism with MIS inks.  If you don't need variable 
tone then your next step might be to get a Full Spectrum cart from 
MIS and try it with the piezoBW driver or Paul's curves.  I'm using 
MIS FS on my 1280 with the new piezoBW driver and I'm very 
pleased with it.  
Hap

BIG SNIP 

>I'm using 
> MIS FS on my 1280 with the new piezoBW driver and I'm very 
> pleased with it.  
> Hap

Hap,

I only see MIS FS for the 4 color printers, where did you come up 
with a set for the 6 color printers? Martin and I have been wanting 
to try the MIS FS with the 1280 and Piezo driver.

Thanks,

Terry

Terry,
MIS does not yet offer a 6 ink Full Spectrum ink set, but Bob Zeiss 
explained that the piezoBW 6 ink set is actually 4 inks.  The magenta 
position is the same as the light magenta and the cyan is the same as 
light cyan.  This didn't make sense to him as the best way to do a 6 
ink set.  However, if you want to use the inks with the piezoBW 
software just buy the Full Spectrum quad set and double up on the 
cyan and magenta positions.  If you do a step wedge with these inks 
and the Epson driver you get a really ugly gradient.  The shadows are 
all messed up.  Do the step wedge with the piezoBW software and, 
voila, a very nice gradient appears indicating that the inks are just 
where the piezoBW driver expects them to be.  For best results I 
played with the custom dot gain.  That was new to me, but my wife and 
I now printing happily for the first time since July.
Hap

driver just--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "TerryR" 
<terryr1028@h...> wrote:

> BIG SNIP 
> 
> >I'm using 
> > MIS FS on my 1280 with the new piezoBW driver and I'm very 
> > pleased with it.  
> > Hap
> 
> Hap,
> 
> I only see MIS FS for the 4 color printers, where did you come up 
> with a set for the 6 color printers? Martin and I have been wanting 
> to try the MIS FS with the 1280 and Piezo driver.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Terry

Thank you Hap!

I had just sent an email to Martin last night in which I thought that 
what you explained below was what we could do, but it is nice to know 
that my thinking was on par.

One last question, have you tried Pauls curves with these inks? If so 
how did the results look?

Thanks again,

Terry

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Hap Mullenneaux" 
<hapm@y...> wrote:
> Terry,
> MIS does not yet offer a 6 ink Full Spectrum ink set, but Bob Zeiss 
> explained that the piezoBW 6 ink set is actually 4 inks.  The 
magenta 
> position is the same as the light magenta and the cyan is the same 
as 
> light cyan.  This didn't make sense to him as the best way to do a 
6 
> ink set.  However, if you want to use the inks with the piezoBW 
> software just buy the Full Spectrum quad set and double up on the 
> cyan and magenta positions.  If you do a step wedge with these inks 
> and the Epson driver you get a really ugly gradient.  The shadows 
are 
> all messed up.  Do the step wedge with the piezoBW software and, 
> voila, a very nice gradient appears indicating that the inks are 
just 
> where the piezoBW driver expects them to be.  For best results I 
> played with the custom dot gain.  That was new to me, but my wife 
and 
> I now printing happily for the first time since July.
> Hap
> 
> driver just--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "TerryR" 
> <terryr1028@h...> wrote:
> > BIG SNIP 
> > 
> > >I'm using 
> > > MIS FS on my 1280 with the new piezoBW driver and I'm very 
> > > pleased with it.  
> > > Hap
> > 
> > Hap,
> > 
> > I only see MIS FS for the 4 color printers, where did you come up 
> > with a set for the 6 color printers? Martin and I have been 
wanting 

> > to try the MIS FS with the 1280 and Piezo driver.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Terry

Terry,

> One last question, have you tried Pauls curves with these inks? If 
> so how did the results look?
The only curves of Paul's that I know are for MIS VM and I didn't try 
them.  Having seen what the gradient looks like with the Epson driver 
and this Full Spectrum 6 ink set, I would not be inclined to use 
these inks with anything but the piezoBW software.  If MIS comes out 
with an FS hex set that really is 6 inks that would be a much better 
place to start if you don't own the piezoBW software.  Of course, 
that set won't work with piezoBW.
Hap

Hap,

I am sitting here hitting myself over the head going, "Duh! Why 
didn't I think of that!"

I have been complaining about the lack of a hex version of the MIS 
Full Spectrum ink set for the last couple of months completely 
forgetting that the hex Piezo ink set did not appear to actually use 
6 inks. Thank you for confirming this fact once and for all.

I think I see a set of Full Spectrum inks in a second 1280 in the not 
too distant future.

Thanks again!

Martin Wesley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Hap Mullenneaux" 
<hapm@y...> wrote:
> Terry,
> MIS does not yet offer a 6 ink Full Spectrum ink set, but Bob Zeiss 
> explained that the piezoBW 6 ink set is actually 4 inks.  The 
magenta 
> position is the same as the light magenta and the cyan is the same 
as 
> light cyan.  This didn't make sense to him as the best way to do a 
6 
> ink set.  However, if you want to use the inks with the piezoBW 
> software just buy the Full Spectrum quad set and double up on the 
> cyan and magenta positions.  If you do a step wedge with these inks 
> and the Epson driver you get a really ugly gradient.  The shadows 
are 
> all messed up.  Do the step wedge with the piezoBW software and, 
> voila, a very nice gradient appears indicating that the inks are 
just 
> where the piezoBW driver expects them to be.  For best results I 
> played with the custom dot gain.  That was new to me, but my wife 
and 
> I now printing happily for the first time since July.
> Hap
> 
> driver just--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "TerryR" 
> <terryr1028@h...> wrote:
> > BIG SNIP 
> > 
> > >I'm using 
> > > MIS FS on my 1280 with the new piezoBW driver and I'm very 
> > > pleased with it.  
> > > Hap
> > 
> > Hap,
> > 
> > I only see MIS FS for the 4 color printers, where did you come up 
> > with a set for the 6 color printers? Martin and I have been 
wanting 

> > to try the MIS FS with the 1280 and Piezo driver.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Terry

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Hap Mullenneaux" 
<hapm@y...> wrote:
> Jeff,
> > Questions:

(snip)
> 
> > One thing that really impressed me about the Piezo inks where the 
> > TOTAL lack of Matemerism and I actually did like their warm tone 
on 
> > EAM. Do the MIS VM inkset also lack Matemerism in the same way?
> Haven't noticed metamerism with MIS inks.  If you don't need 
variable 
> tone then your next step might be to get a Full Spectrum cart from 
> MIS and try it with the piezoBW driver or Paul's curves.  I'm using 
> MIS FS on my 1280 with the new piezoBW driver and I'm very 
> pleased with it.  
> Hap

Jeff, Hap,

I just want to throw in that some people see metamerism in both the 
Piezo and the MIS VM. To my eye the Piezo has a green or yellow-green 
cast under tungsten or quartz halogen lights and is a nice warm tone 
in daylight. This varies with paper and printer.


MIS VM is can be a variety of tones from very blue to warm under 
tungsten or quartz halogen lights depending upon the curve used but 
under daylight will shift towards green or blue-green.

I have only one sample of MIS FS and it does not exhibit any 
metamerism that I can detect.

Martin Wesley