Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

Warm/Sepia toner for variable-tone inkset

Warm/Sepia toner for variable-tone inkset

2001-11-03 by Paul Roark

This evening's entertainment was making a warm/sepia version of the
variable-tone inkset.  It uses the standard MIS VM inks and curves, except
that it uses a sepia toner instead of the bluish toner.

I printed and scanned my Oceano Dunes with the normal 4 MIS VM  curves.
I've asked Martin to post it in the Files section of the forum.  The name of
the file is "VM-Sepia."  I assume it will be in the Message Related Files
section sometime tomorrow.

The sepia toner formula is 4 parts Yellow pigs (the newer, much more
fade-resistant version sold by MIS as "FS yellow"), 2 parts magenta pigs, 3
parts MIS "25" and 3  parts MIS clear base.

It's not quite perfect, but not a bad start if people are interested in such
an inkset.

The VM inkset goes both ways -- in fact, about any way you want it to.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: Warm/Sepia toner for variable-tone inkset

2001-11-03 by Mark Tucker

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:


You should ask Martin/Antonio to put up a before-and-after jpg of 
it too, in the Photos section. That could help make it more "real".

Re: [Digital BW] Warm/Sepia toner for variable-tone inkset

2001-11-03 by Bill Morse

I was going to title this response "A new paradigm for digital printing,"
but I figured no one would read it. [G]

I have worked on digital images for 14 years, first on Cadd-based
architectural renderings, now with B/W photos.  I have always sought digital
graphics that did not pretend (or aspire) to be "the same" as some analog
(i.e. silver) process.  For that reason, I have been much more interested in
prints on heavily textured WC paper than "photo glossy."

Paul, I think you are really onto something here- we can make prints that no
silver process can approximate!


Bill Morse
PhotoProspect
Cambridge, MA 

on 11/3/01 1:53 AM, Paul Roark wrote:

This evening's entertainment was making a warm/sepia version of the
variable-tone inkset.  It uses the standard MIS VM inks and curves, except
that it uses a sepia toner instead of the bluish toner.

I printed and scanned my Oceano Dunes with the normal 4 MIS VM  curves.
I've asked Martin to post it in the Files section of the forum.  The name of
the file is "VM-Sepia."  I assume it will be in the Message Related Files
section sometime tomorrow.

The sepia toner formula is 4 parts Yellow pigs (the newer, much more
fade-resistant version sold by MIS as "FS yellow"), 2 parts magenta pigs, 3
parts MIS "25" and 3  parts MIS clear base.

It's not quite perfect, but not a bad start if people are interested in such
an inkset.

The VM inkset goes both ways -- in fact, about any way you want it to.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Warm/Sepia toner for variable-tone inkset

2001-11-03 by Paul Roark

Bill Morse wrote:

>I was going to title this response "A new paradigm for digital printing,"
>but I figured no one would read it. [G]

>... I think you are really onto something here- we can make prints that no
>silver process can approximate!

[To see the sample prints, see image VM-Sepia2.jpg in the Message Related
Files section of the forum.  The Files section is at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ ]

The tone/color of quads is really wide open. Anyone can mix their own unique
ink tones easily.

Although one can clone the Piezo inks to make, for example, the neutral-tone
Piezo clone like I published here on 10/30, the variable-tone approach is
really easier and more flexible.  All one has to do is match the g/s density
of the existing toner for the VM curves to work as written.  For those with
an 1160, all you have to do is mix one ink.  All the rest of the system is
unchanged.  With the software (curves) to control the amount of the toner,
you don't really have to worry much about how strong the toner will be.

(Those with 6-ink printers who want to get into this will feel pangs of
"1160 envy.")

To match the toner density, I use what I call my "Color Test" curve that
simply pours out 100% of each ink independently at different parts of the
21-step test file when it is printer with the curve.  Do that with the MIS
VM inkset first to get a standard, then simply match the toner density with
the brew you make.  After I've published a few formulas we'll get a sense of
what works to come close to that density (which is just a hair darker than
the MIS VM lightest gray ink).

I've also found that plain copy paper dipped into the ink and then blotted
dry with a paper towel can get me fairly close to the right density.  I use
the MIS VM lightest gray ink as the target density.  When the new toner brew
looks just a hair darker than the MIS VM light gray paper dip, I know I'm in
the ballpark.  (The Sepia2 mix is just a  hair too light at 39% v. the 42%
target.)

With paper and ink being separate products, we are closer to being painters
than most of us would have ever guessed.  My darkroom is now my ink mixing
room.

Hey, who will be the first with the green toner?  (Or did Piezo already try
that -- Sorry, I just couldn't resist.)

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com


on 11/3/01 1:53 AM, Paul Roark wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>>This evening's entertainment was making a warm/sepia version of the
>>variable-tone inkset.  It uses the standard MIS VM inks and curves, except
>>that it uses a sepia toner instead of the bluish toner.

>>...

Re: [Digital BW] Warm/Sepia toner for variable-tone inkset

2001-11-03 by Bill Morse

Paul, could you post the "Color Test" curve, or describe how it is written?

Also, how do you change out the different toners (I assume you're using a
CIS)? 

Thanks

Bill

on 11/3/01 12:07 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

The tone/color of quads is really wide open. Anyone can mix their own unique
ink tones easily.

To match the toner density, I use what I call my "Color Test" curve that
simply pours out 100% of each ink independently at different parts of the
21-step test file when it is printer with the curve.  Do that with the MIS
VM inkset first to get a standard, then simply match the toner density with
the brew you make.  After I've published a few formulas we'll get a sense of
what works to come close to that density (which is just a hair darker than
the MIS VM lightest gray ink).




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

VM Sepia or VM question

2002-08-30 by Murray Zaharia

Hi guys. I have a spare 1270 printer and have decided to dedicate it to
MIS VM. My question is what inkset is used on this file? I want to order
it. Is it the regular VM or VM Sepia? Where can I get the latest curves
for this inkset? Any other tips or FAQ's to look at  
For this inkset and printer combo? I will be using a CFS with it.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Message
%20Related%20Files/11_2001%20uploads/VM-Sepia2.jpg

Thanks.
Murray Z.

RE: [Digital BW] VM Sepia or VM question

2002-08-30 by Paul Roark

Murray,

The 870/1270 curves are in the Files section of this forum at:

Files > Ink Sets > MIS > MIS Variable Mix > 870 and 1270 Curves

To see how they should print with the MIS VM-S inkset, see:

VM-Sepia-Standard 870 v. 1 curves.jpg  at


Files > Ink Sets > MIS > MIS Variable Mix > MIS VM Neutral-Sepia

The Files section is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

___________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Murray Zaharia [mailto:zaharia@...]
  Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 4:40 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] VM Sepia or VM question



  Hi guys. I have a spare 1270 printer and have decided to dedicate it to
  MIS VM. My question is what inkset is used on this file? I want to order
  it. Is it the regular VM or VM Sepia? Where can I get the latest curves
  for this inkset? Any other tips or FAQ's to look at
  For this inkset and printer combo? I will be using a CFS with it.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Message
  %20Related%20Files/11_2001%20uploads/VM-Sepia2.jpg

  Thanks.
  Murray Z.




        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT



  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] VM Sepia or VM question

2002-08-30 by Murray Zaharia

Paul

Thank you for the reply. I am still not sure if we are talking about the
same inks. The jpg that I referred to in my original post below is 
VM-Sepia2.jpg

 The file you mention is VM-Sepia-Standard 870 v.1 curves. 
Is this file and the one that I mentioned printed from the same inkset?
MIS VM Sepia? If so, have I seen you mention that you were working on
another sepia set as well or is this the final version? Also, do you
know if this set is or will be supported by the ImagePrint RIP?

Murray Z. 

******
Murray,

The 870/1270 curves are in the Files section of this forum at:

Files > Ink Sets > MIS > MIS Variable Mix > 870 and 1270 Curves

To see how they should print with the MIS VM-S inkset, see:

VM-Sepia-Standard 870 v. 1 curves.jpg  at


Files > Ink Sets > MIS > MIS Variable Mix > MIS VM Neutral-Sepia

The Files section is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

___________________________




 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Message
  %20Related%20Files/11_2001%20uploads/VM-Sepia2.jpg

  Thanks.
  Murray Z.

RE: [Digital BW] VM Sepia or VM question

2002-08-30 by Paul Roark

Murray,

>... The jpg that I referred to in my original post below is
>VM-Sepia2.jpg

>The file you mention is VM-Sepia-Standard 870 v.1 curves.
>Is this file and the one that I mentioned printed from the same inkset?
>MIS VM Sepia?

Yes, the inksets were essentially the same.  The VM-Sepia2 was just the
second beta version of the final MIS VM-sepia inkset.

> If so, have I seen you mention that you were working on
>another sepia set as well or is this the final version?

No, the current MIS VM-Sepia is going to be stable for a while.

> Also, do you
>know if this set is or will be supported by the ImagePrint RIP?

I had heard that there would be support, but I have heard nothing in quite a
while.  So, I'd say it is uncertain.  Perhaps you should contact ColorByte
and encourage them to support the inkset.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

_____________________________________________

******
Murray,

The 870/1270 curves are in the Files section of this forum at:

Files > Ink Sets > MIS > MIS Variable Mix > 870 and 1270 Curves

To see how they should print with the MIS VM-S inkset, see:

VM-Sepia-Standard 870 v. 1 curves.jpg  at


Files > Ink Sets > MIS > MIS Variable Mix > MIS VM Neutral-Sepia

The Files section is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

___________________________





http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Message
  %20Related%20Files/11_2001%20uploads/VM-Sepia2.jpg

  Thanks.
  Murray Z.

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.