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[Digital BW] Neutral tone FS inks for Piezo driver -- update

[Digital BW] Neutral tone FS inks for Piezo driver -- update

2001-11-07 by Paul Roark

I have slightly adjusted the formula for the neutral FS inks that I
published here on 10/30.

The FS-N3 inkset mix is as follows:

1.      Mix a dark blue toner: 1 part cyan pigs to 1 part magenta pigs.

2.      Mix a base cyan-position ink:

	(a)  Mix 28% VM or Piezo black, the remainder MIS clear base.
		(This might be a hair too light.)

	(b)  Mix the toner and 28% K, above, as follows: 1 part toner to 5 parts
28% K.  This is the cyan-position ink for the cartridge and for further
mixing, below.

3.      Magenta position: 15.3% cyan-position ink, above, the remainder MIS
clear base.

4.      Yellow position:  1 part magenta-position ink, above, to 1 part
clear base.

This is just the latest mix I've done.  It must be considered a draft
formula that may need some fine tuning.

Note that mixing with syringes (like I do) is not very accurate.  As such,
there will be variations in the results.

(MIS is not involved in this.  Whether they would pre-mix this is probably a
question of whether there are enough people who want it.)

Frankly, I still think that the MIS VM approach is better, but for those who
love the Piezo driver and want neutral ink, here is a formula that works
fairly well.

To see what the images will look like compared to a standard Piezo print,
the first FS-N1 print is still representative.  That neutral-tone image was
printed with the Piezo driver and the FS-N1 inkset described 10/30.  The
comparison Piezo image is standard Piezo ink, with the Piezo driver.  Both
are on EAM.  The comparison image is "FS-N1-Pzo" in the Message Related
Files section of this forum.  See,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
and go to the "Message Related Files" folder.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Neutral tone FS inks for Piezo driver -- update

2001-11-10 by Martin Wesley

Paul,

From the image file I definitely prefer the Neutral FS tone over the 
Piezo ink color.

Practically the mixing sound like it would be tough to reproduce 
accurately in small quantities. 1 to 1 or 1 to 5 is pretty easy in 
small amounts but 28 to 72 or 153 to 847 is going to require some 
good graduated cylinders and larger amounts.

Have you tried mixing by weight? This might be more accurate and 
reproducible. A triple beam balance or better a digital scale with a 
1 in 1000 or 1 in 10,000 resolution would be the way to go.

Given the cost of the inks a good scale would be well worth the 
investment of a couple of hundred dollars for say an Aculab 
electronic scale.

Martin Wesley



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I have slightly adjusted the formula for the neutral FS inks that I
> published here on 10/30.
> 
> The FS-N3 inkset mix is as follows:
> 
> 1.      Mix a dark blue toner: 1 part cyan pigs to 1 part magenta 
pigs.
> 
> 2.      Mix a base cyan-position ink:
> 
> 	(a)  Mix 28% VM or Piezo black, the remainder MIS clear base.
> 		(This might be a hair too light.)
> 
> 	(b)  Mix the toner and 28% K, above, as follows: 1 part toner 
to 5 parts
> 28% K.  This is the cyan-position ink for the cartridge and for 
further
> mixing, below.
> 
> 3.      Magenta position: 15.3% cyan-position ink, above, the 
remainder MIS
> clear base.
> 
> 4.      Yellow position:  1 part magenta-position ink, above, to 1 
part
> clear base.
> 
> This is just the latest mix I've done.  It must be considered a 
draft
> formula that may need some fine tuning.
> 
> Note that mixing with syringes (like I do) is not very accurate.  
As such,
> there will be variations in the results.
> 
> (MIS is not involved in this.  Whether they would pre-mix this is 
probably a
> question of whether there are enough people who want it.)
> 
> Frankly, I still think that the MIS VM approach is better, but for 
those who
> love the Piezo driver and want neutral ink, here is a formula that 
works
> fairly well.
> 
> To see what the images will look like compared to a standard Piezo 
print,
> the first FS-N1 print is still representative.  That neutral-tone 
image was
> printed with the Piezo driver and the FS-N1 inkset described 
10/30.  The
> comparison Piezo image is standard Piezo ink, with the Piezo 
driver.  Both
> are on EAM.  The comparison image is "FS-N1-Pzo" in the Message 
Related
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Files section of this forum.  See,
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> and go to the "Message Related Files" folder.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Neutral tone FS inks for Piezo driver -- update

2001-11-10 by Paul Roark

Martin,

You wrote:

>From the image file I definitely prefer the Neutral FS tone over the
>Piezo ink color.

My intent is to give a neutral-tone alternative for those who prefer the
Piezo driver.  Piezo and FS are what I consider medium-warm on coated paper.
(For warmer there will be the sepia variable-tone, which I currently have no
plans to make into an FS/Piezo compatible inkset.)

>Practically the mixing sounds like it would be tough to reproduce
>accurately in small quantities. 1 to 1 or 1 to 5 is pretty easy in
>small amounts but 28 to 72 or 153 to 847 is going to require some
>good graduated cylinders and larger amounts.

I use syringes, which are limited in accuracy.  Using a good scales is the
better way.  However, syringes are cheap and easy.  And, it actually works
well enough that it's not a problem.  You'd be surprised how far off you can
be and still have a result that is close.  So, it's better if someone mixes
in fair quantity with scales, but it is not a major problem with the ratios
I've put out there.  (The lighter inks would have been if mixed direct.
That is one reason they are mixed from the cyan-position ink.)

As a practical matter, I doubt many will tackle the neutral FS mix now --
especially those on 6-ink machines.  The toners are a different matter.
That is just one ink for a quad.  The MIS VM grays work just fine with them,
as long as you don't need cool/neutral.

>Given the cost of the inks a good scale would be well worth the
>investment of a couple of hundred dollars for say an Aculab
>electronic scale.

It's the high-end way, but what I try to do is use procedures that are
available to all for virtually free.  I have yet to be so far off that an
inkset experiment was not useable.

Paul

______________


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I have slightly adjusted the formula for the neutral FS inks that I
> published here on 10/30.
>
> The FS-N3 inkset mix is as follows:
>
> 1.      Mix a dark blue toner: 1 part cyan pigs to 1 part magenta
pigs.
>
> 2.      Mix a base cyan-position ink:
>
>       (a)  Mix 28% VM or Piezo black, the remainder MIS clear base.
>             (This might be a hair too light.)
>
>       (b)  Mix the toner and 28% K, above, as follows: 1 part toner
to 5 parts
> 28% K.  This is the cyan-position ink for the cartridge and for
further
> mixing, below.
>
> 3.      Magenta position: 15.3% cyan-position ink, above, the
remainder MIS
> clear base.
>
> 4.      Yellow position:  1 part magenta-position ink, above, to 1
part
> clear base.
>
> This is just the latest mix I've done.  It must be considered a
draft
> formula that may need some fine tuning.
>
> Note that mixing with syringes (like I do) is not very accurate.
As such,
> there will be variations in the results.
>
> (MIS is not involved in this.  Whether they would pre-mix this is
probably a
> question of whether there are enough people who want it.)
>
> Frankly, I still think that the MIS VM approach is better, but for
those who
> love the Piezo driver and want neutral ink, here is a formula that
works
> fairly well.
>
> To see what the images will look like compared to a standard Piezo
print,
> the first FS-N1 print is still representative.  That neutral-tone
image was
> printed with the Piezo driver and the FS-N1 inkset described
10/30.  The
> comparison Piezo image is standard Piezo ink, with the Piezo
driver.  Both
> are on EAM.  The comparison image is "FS-N1-Pzo" in the Message
Related
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Files section of this forum.  See,
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> and go to the "Message Related Files" folder.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Neutral tone FS inks for Piezo driver -- update

2001-11-10 by Martin Wesley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:

(snip)
> 
> I use syringes, which are limited in accuracy.  Using a good scales 
is the
> better way.  However, syringes are cheap and easy.  And, it 
actually works
> well enough that it's not a problem.  You'd be surprised how far 
off you can
> be and still have a result that is close.  So, it's better if 
someone mixes
> in fair quantity with scales, but it is not a major problem with 
the ratios
> I've put out there.  (The lighter inks would have been if mixed 
direct.
> That is one reason they are mixed from the cyan-position ink.)
> 
> As a practical matter, I doubt many will tackle the neutral FS mix 
now --
> especially those on 6-ink machines.

Paul,

I'm glad to hear there is that much latitude in the ratios. If the 
syringes work, they are certainly much easier and cheaper to use.

I may give the FS Neutral a try on a 1280 and with the Piezo driver 
and simply use the Cyan and Magenta position inks in the Photo Cyan 
and Photo Magenta positions since these do not seem to differ in the 
Piezo ink set.

Martin Wesley


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