Digital BW, The Print

After reading about the Costco Kirkland gloss paper in the group, I 
have been printing B&W proofs with my Epson 2200 printer loaded with 
MIS UT7 inks (with Eboni black).  

In PS CS Print with Preview, the Source Space is Adobe RGB (1998) and 
in the Print Space I use a profile for SP2100 Premium Semi-Gloss 
paper.  In the printer Media Type I selected Epson matte paper since 
the recommended paper setting (premium semi-gloss) was not available 
with the Eboni ink in the printer.  In the Mode/Custom/Advanced/Color 
Management, selected no color adjustment.  I printed the image 
without applying any Paul Roark curves and the resulting image looked 
like a slightly warm, glossy silver print!  The print did not have 
excessive bronzing in the shadows.  I was indeed impressed.  I 
thought I had found the right printing process to produce good B&W 
digital prints.  But there is one problem.  I'm seeing roller
tracks 
across the print as it moves through the printer.  Apparently the MIS 
UT7 inks are not drying fast enough on the glossy paper or the 
printer is laying down too much ink for the selected paper. 

I changed the ink to Photo Black and selected Premium Semi-Gloss 
paper in the printer media type in the event there was a conflict 
between PS CS and the printer, but the roller tracks remain in the 
print.   

When I print with the Epson color inks, no roller tracks.

Has anyone encountered this problem?   Is there any way to reduce the 
roller pressure on the paper? 

Thanks,
John

hmmmmm..... you dont mention any method of removing the eboni ink from 
the darkest areas. Eboni ink does not work on glossy paper. It just sit 
on the top. It also looks dull, and you can wipe it right off with a 
tissue. That may be your problem. Paul's curves make it so that you 
dont have hardly any eboni ink being used. The glossy papers have 
plenty of good dark blacks without the eboni ink. You can also do it 
with a output transfer curve in RGB mode. You can also get pizza wheel 
marks on this paper pretty easy. DM
On Dec 3, 2004, at 8:14 PM, John wrote:

>
>  After reading about the Costco Kirkland gloss paper in the group, I
>  have been printing B&W proofs with my Epson 2200 printer loaded with
>  MIS UT7 inks (with Eboni black).�
>
>  In PS CS Print with Preview, the Source Space is Adobe RGB (1998) and
>  in the Print Space I use a profile for SP2100 Premium Semi-Gloss
>  paper.� In the printer Media Type I selected Epson matte paper since
>  the recommended paper setting (premium semi-gloss) was not available
>  with the Eboni ink in the printer.� In the Mode/Custom/Advanced/Color
>  Management, selected no color adjustment.� I printed the image
>  without applying any Paul Roark curves and the resulting image looked
>  like a slightly warm, glossy silver print!� The print did not have
>  excessive bronzing in the shadows.� I was indeed impressed.� I
>  thought I had found the right printing process to produce good B&W
>  digital prints.� But there is one problem.� I'm seeing roller
>  tracks
>  across the print as it moves through the printer.� Apparently the MIS
>  UT7 inks are not drying fast enough on the glossy paper or the
>  printer is laying down too much ink for the selected paper.
>
>  I changed the ink to Photo Black and selected Premium Semi-Gloss
>  paper in the printer media type in the event there was a conflict
>  between PS CS and the printer, but the roller tracks remain in the
>  print.��
>
>  When I print with the Epson color inks, no roller tracks.
>
>  Has anyone encountered this problem?�� Is there any way to reduce the
>  roller pressure on the paper?
>
>  Thanks,
>  John
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
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> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE� �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John,

For a possible 2200 wheel mark remedy, see
http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/2200wh.html.

By the way, the latest Swiss made Kirkland glossy is holding a huge 1.4 dmax
with Epson UC PK in the C86.  I haven't tested MIS PK yet.  (Oddly in the
7500 MIS PK does better than UC PK.  Which does better seems to vary by
paper and printer and who knows what other factors.)

The latest Swiss Kirkland glossy has a bit more texture than Epson Premium
Glossy, but it's very close to it.  It also does have the buffered interior
paper.  So, also in that respect, I think it is basically an improved Epson
Premium Glossy Photo paper.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

-----Original Message-----
From: John [mailto:jbush6880@...] 
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:14 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] B&W Printing with Costco/Kirkland Glossy Paper



After reading about the Costco Kirkland gloss paper in the group, I 
have been printing B&W proofs with my Epson 2200 printer loaded with 
MIS UT7 inks (with Eboni black).  

In PS CS Print with Preview, the Source Space is Adobe RGB (1998) and 
in the Print Space I use a profile for SP2100 Premium Semi-Gloss 
paper.  In the printer Media Type I selected Epson matte paper since 
the recommended paper setting (premium semi-gloss) was not available 
with the Eboni ink in the printer.  In the Mode/Custom/Advanced/Color 
Management, selected no color adjustment.  I printed the image 
without applying any Paul Roark curves and the resulting image looked 
like a slightly warm, glossy silver print!  The print did not have 
excessive bronzing in the shadows.  I was indeed impressed.  I 
thought I had found the right printing process to produce good B&W 
digital prints.  But there is one problem.  I'm seeing roller
tracks 
across the print as it moves through the printer.  Apparently the MIS 
UT7 inks are not drying fast enough on the glossy paper or the 
printer is laying down too much ink for the selected paper. 

I changed the ink to Photo Black and selected Premium Semi-Gloss 
paper in the printer media type in the event there was a conflict 
between PS CS and the printer, but the roller tracks remain in the 
print.   

When I print with the Epson color inks, no roller tracks.

Has anyone encountered this problem?   Is there any way to reduce the 
roller pressure on the paper? 

Thanks,
John 







Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
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Please follow these basic guidelines:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

--- "John" <jbush6880@...> wrote:

"
I'm seeing roller tracks across  the  print as it moves through the printer.  When I print with the Epson color inks, no roller tracks.
Has  anyone  encountered  this  problem? Is there any way to reduce the
roller pressure on the paper?
"

Refer to:-
http://imageplace.co.uk/calibration/instructions/2100mod/index.html
for details and pictures re 2100/2200 wheels for the info you require.
HAND
Gerry


_____________________________________________________________
http://www.easypost.com Anti-Virus & Anti-Spam Web Mail thats hotter than hot

hmmmmmm......I am definitely NOT a numbers guy, but why is it that 
people say that  H. Photo rag has something like 1.67 Dmax, which is 
darker than 1.4 by a fair amount, but on costco glossy, my blacks are 
way darker than with Photo rag, and that is with no eboni, just the 
dark greys? Is that because glossy just seems blacker?
On Dec 3, 2004, at 9:06 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

> John,
>
>  For a possible 2200 wheel mark remedy, see
> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/2200wh.html.
>
>  By the way, the latest Swiss made Kirkland glossy is holding a huge 
> 1.4 dmax
>  with Epson UC PK in the C86.  I haven't tested MIS PK yet.  (Oddly in 
> the
>  7500 MIS PK does better than UC PK.  Which does better seems to vary 
> by
>  paper and printer and who knows what other factors.)
>
>  The latest Swiss Kirkland glossy has a bit more texture than Epson 
> Premium
>  Glossy, but it's very close to it.  It also does have the buffered 
> interior
>  paper.  So, also in that respect, I think it is basically an improved 
> Epson
>  Premium Glossy Photo paper.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My typo.  The Costco Kirkland glossy is holding a huge 2.4 dmax.  I doubt
it'll stay there for a week.  Those huge ones usually come down.  But this
plus a buffered paper is about as good as I've seen.

PhotoRag hits 1.7 or a little better -- very good for a matte paper.  I
think it looks great too, but the glossy blacks in good lighting just have a
natural advantage over the matte blacks. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
__________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Meeuwsen [mailto:lipshurt@...] 
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:17 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] B&W Printing with Costco/Kirkland Glossy Paper


hmmmmmm......I am definitely NOT a numbers guy, but why is it that 
people say that  H. Photo rag has something like 1.67 Dmax, which is 
darker than 1.4 by a fair amount, but on costco glossy, my blacks are 
way darker than with Photo rag, and that is with no eboni, just the 
dark greys? Is that because glossy just seems blacker?
On Dec 3, 2004, at 9:06 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

> John,
>
>  For a possible 2200 wheel mark remedy, see
> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/2200wh.html.
>
>  By the way, the latest Swiss made Kirkland glossy is holding a huge 
> 1.4 dmax
>  with Epson UC PK in the C86.  I haven't tested MIS PK yet.  (Oddly in 
> the
>  7500 MIS PK does better than UC PK.  Which does better seems to vary 
> by
>  paper and printer and who knows what other factors.)
>
>  The latest Swiss Kirkland glossy has a bit more texture than Epson 
> Premium
>  Glossy, but it's very close to it.  It also does have the buffered 
> interior
>  paper.  So, also in that respect, I think it is basically an improved 
> Epson
>  Premium Glossy Photo paper.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
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FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
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MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Ok....now it makes sense.....
On Dec 3, 2004, at 10:59 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

> My typo.� The Costco Kirkland glossy is holding a huge 2.4 dmax.� I 
> doubt
>  it'll stay there for a week.� Those huge ones usually come down.� But 
> this
>  plus a buffered paper is about as good as I've seen.
>
>  PhotoRag hits 1.7 or a little better -- very good for a matte paper.� 
> I
>  think it looks great too, but the glossy blacks in good lighting just 
> have a
>  natural advantage over the matte blacks.
>
>  Paul
>  www.PaulRoark.com
>  __________________
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Douglas Meeuwsen [mailto:lipshurt@...]
>  Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:17 PM
>  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] B&W Printing with Costco/Kirkland Glossy 
> Paper
>
>
>  hmmmmmm......I am definitely NOT a numbers guy, but why is it that
>  people say that� H. Photo rag has something like 1.67 Dmax, which is
>  darker than 1.4 by a fair amount, but on costco glossy, my blacks are
>  way darker than with Photo rag, and that is with no eboni, just the
>  dark greys? Is that because glossy just seems blacker?
>  On Dec 3, 2004, at 9:06 PM, Paul Roark wrote:
>
>  > John,
>  >
>  >� For a possible 2200 wheel mark remedy, see
>  > http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/2200wh.html.
>  >
>  >� By the way, the latest Swiss made Kirkland glossy is holding a huge
>  > 1.4 dmax
>  >� with Epson UC PK in the C86.� I haven't tested MIS PK yet.� (Oddly 
> in
>  > the
>  >� 7500 MIS PK does better than UC PK.� Which does better seems to 
> vary
>  > by
>  >� paper and printer and who knows what other factors.)
>  >
>  >� The latest Swiss Kirkland glossy has a bit more texture than Epson
>  > Premium
>  >� Glossy, but it's very close to it.� It also does have the buffered
>  > interior
>  >� paper.� So, also in that respect, I think it is basically an 
> improved
>  > Epson
>  >� Premium Glossy Photo paper.
>
>
>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as
>  they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to
>  unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
> same
>  page.
>
>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
>  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep
>  them short.
>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames.
>  Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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>  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W
>  printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed 
> from
>  the membership.
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>  Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files 
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>
>  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT
>  YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
>  �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE 
> TO YOU
>  FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
> EXEMPLARY
>  DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
>  GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE� �OWNER� 
> AND
>  �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED 
> OF THE
>  POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
> INABILITY
>  TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> ACCESS TO OR
>  ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT 
> OF ANY
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> OTHER
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was just having a heck of a time trying to get two prints to match 
tone. (Ut2 on a 1280). One is velvet fine art, and the other photo rag. 
I made about 6 prints trying the get the photo rag not to warmer than 
the velvet.....then I figured out that the velvet print was in a frame 
under glass. I was using identical matt boards, and I had the matt 
laying over the the PR print. The velvet print was 12x15, and the PH.R 
print was 8x10. Finally figured it out when I laid the smaller print on 
top of the larger mounted print and saw that the glass had totally 
changed the color of the matt board. The print under glass looked 
better. (The reason one had glass and the other did not was because I 
broke it.....).....so anyway, I never hear much about the effect of 
glass on the color of a print. this is cheap glass from michaels, so 
maybe that is an issue also.......DM

Gerry, 
Thanks for the information.  That's exactly what I need!
John
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, gerry stone 
<gerry@g...> wrote:
> 
> 
> --- "John" <jbush6880@w...> wrote:
> 
> "
> I'm seeing roller tracks across  the  print as it moves through the 
printer.  When I print with the Epson color inks, no roller tracks.
> Has  anyone  encountered  this  problem? Is there any way to reduce 
the
> roller pressure on the paper?
> "
> 
> Refer to:-
> http://imageplace.co.uk/calibration/instructions/2100mod/index.html
> for details and pictures re 2100/2200 wheels for the info you 
require.
> HAND
> Gerry
> 
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> http://www.easypost.com Anti-Virus & Anti-Spam Web Mail thats 
hotter than hot

Has anyone tried this Costco paper with an ink like the Canon i960
uses? for color work I'm looking for a decent snap shot paper for 4X6
color prints.

Mark W.

I've found that Canon's Photo Paper Pro to be the best
(of the few papers I've tried) for printing any size
'snapshots' using my i960.  Canon's Photo Paper Plus
Glossy is easier to find in bulk and seems to perform
identically from what I can tell.

Matt

PS.  How much and what kind of printing do you to with
you i960?  Have you done any Black-only or QTR
printing with it (is that even possible?)


--- awahlster <awahlster@...> wrote:
Has anyone tried this Costco paper with an ink like
the Canon i960
uses? for color work I'm looking for a decent snap
shot paper for 4X6
color prints.

Mark W.

=====
E-mail: wensing@...
Blog: <http://seaofglass.blogspot.com>
Photography: <http://www.wensing-photo.com>

Matt I have only printed about a dozen prints of any kind with my i960
having just last weekend gotten my computer and printer setup setup!

I doubt I will try any B&W printing with it as I bought it only for
it's high quality color prints I just really liked the way they
snapped off the page compared to anything I saw from an epson printer. 

I bought an Epson 890 (had to have a friends son buy it in Anchorage
and mail it to me to find a new one!) to use with UT-2 ink for all my
B&W needs. 

It does look like there is a Black inl only option within the driver
but I have not had an opertunity to try it yet.

Thanks I was planning on using the Canon papers for all my "keeper's)
I was just looking for something a bit cheaper to use for the bulk.
The wife and I shoot nearly 200 rolls of film a year when we are happy
so there tends to be a lot of stuff she wants for albums that does not
at 4X6 need to be super high quality as no one ever spends more then 3
seconds on any one print before they flip the page to the next one.

Thanks she's picking up a package of the Costco stuff for me today
I'll see what it's like.

Mark W.

PS the five display prints I have printed at 6X9 with it made me very
happy I bought it for me color work. I don't need big prints so it is
perfect.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Wensing
<wensing@s...> wrote:

> I've found that Canon's Photo Paper Pro to be the best
> (of the few papers I've tried) for printing any size
> 'snapshots' using my i960.  Canon's Photo Paper Plus
> Glossy is easier to find in bulk and seems to perform
> identically from what I can tell.
> 
> Matt
> 
> PS.  How much and what kind of printing do you to with
> you i960?  Have you done any Black-only or QTR
> printing with it (is that even possible?)
> 
> 
> --- awahlster <awahlster@a...> wrote:
> Has anyone tried this Costco paper with an ink like
> the Canon i960
> uses? for color work I'm looking for a decent snap
> shot paper for 4X6
> color prints.
> 
> Mark W.
> 
> =====
> E-mail: wensing@s...
> Blog: <http://seaofglass.blogspot.com>
> Photography: <http://www.wensing-photo.com>

If you want to drop about a hundred bucks a sheet for it you could use
something like Denglas or Tru Vue:

http://www.denglas.com/prod/framing/antireflective.html

In my short framing career I had the pleasure of using it exactly
once, and the stuff is pretty amazing. It practically disapears.

A more practical alternative might be one of the acrylic glazing
products like ACRYLITE, I think it has less of a color bias than the
cheap glass does, and has the advantage of not breaking (though it is
harder to keep clean without scratching it).

The only adjusting I do is to adjust myself to that fact that I can't
afford the good stuff... if I'm going to spend crazy money on glass,
it's going to be to hang on the front of my camera.

-Jason

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Meeuwsen
<lipshurt@m...> wrote:
> I was just having a heck of a time trying to get two prints to
match 
> tone. (Ut2 on a 1280). One is velvet fine art, and the other photo
rag. 
> I made about 6 prints trying the get the photo rag not to warmer
than 
> the velvet.....then I figured out that the velvet print was in a
frame 
> under glass. I was using identical matt boards, and I had the matt 
> laying over the the PR print. The velvet print was 12x15, and the
PH.R 
> print was 8x10. Finally figured it out when I laid the smaller
print on 
> top of the larger mounted print and saw that the glass had totally 
> changed the color of the matt board. The print under glass looked 
> better. (The reason one had glass and the other did not was because
I 
> broke it.....).....so anyway, I never hear much about the effect of 
> glass on the color of a print. this is cheap glass from michaels,
so 
> maybe that is an issue also.......DM

Douglas Meeuwsen wrote:
> I was just having a heck of a time trying to get two prints to match 
> tone. (Ut2 on a 1280). One is velvet fine art, and the other photo rag. 
> I made about 6 prints trying the get the photo rag not to warmer than 
> the velvet.....then I figured out that the velvet print was in a frame 
> under glass. I was using identical matt boards, and I had the matt 
> laying over the the PR print. The velvet print was 12x15, and the PH.R 
> print was 8x10. Finally figured it out when I laid the smaller print on 
> top of the larger mounted print and saw that the glass had totally 
> changed the color of the matt board. The print under glass looked 
> better. (The reason one had glass and the other did not was because I 
> broke it.....).....so anyway, I never hear much about the effect of 
> glass on the color of a print. this is cheap glass from michaels, so 
> maybe that is an issue also.......DM

Different paper with the same ink, might always result in a different 
tone and colour response, that's the main reason behind different 
papers.  The age of the print, also will affect the tone, including 
where it hangs.  Glass itself, if completely clean, will not affect a 
print, but chemical gasses, given off by the ink, paper, matt board, 
adhesives and frame materials, might all affect it.  When cleaning the 
glass, don't use window cleaner, it adds to the chemical soup that will 
be trapped inside (instead use a good quality dish soap, rinse well, and 
give it a dip in distilled water before leaving it to air dry).

W