Digital BW, The Print

Hi,

After starting out with UT2 inks in a 1280, I recently purchased a
2200.  I really like the way QTR looks on matte papers, but on
"glossy" (prem. glossy, semigloss, and luster) papers, there is always
a brownish tint.  Though the UT2 prints I made on semigloss had major
bronzing, they were much more "neutral" (i.e., black and gray).

Using the sliders in QTR hasn't really helped much, as even with the
cool settings it seems that the print really isn't neutral.

So - my questions are these:

 - is there some way to get non-brownish prints on RC papers with QTR
and the 2200 (UC inks?

 - if I want to try the UT7 inks in the 2200, do I need to buy all 7,
or is there a way to get a minimal set (like PK, LK, and ???) just to
try it out before I buy the refillable cartridges and ink?

Thanks in advance,
Eric

Welcome to "bronzing" - a real issue on RC papers (glossy or semi-gloss or
semi-matte).  Some of us are now experimenting with "glop" to reduce
bronzing.

> From: e5bowman <e5bowman@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:12:42 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] 2200 and QTR/UT7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> After starting out with UT2 inks in a 1280, I recently purchased a
> 2200.  I really like the way QTR looks on matte papers, but on
> "glossy" (prem. glossy, semigloss, and luster) papers, there is always
> a brownish tint.  Though the UT2 prints I made on semigloss had major
> bronzing, they were much more "neutral" (i.e., black and gray).
> 
> Using the sliders in QTR hasn't really helped much, as even with the
> cool settings it seems that the print really isn't neutral.
> 
> So - my questions are these:
> 
>  - is there some way to get non-brownish prints on RC papers with QTR
> and the 2200 (UC inks?
> 
>  - if I want to try the UT7 inks in the 2200, do I need to buy all 7,
> or is there a way to get a minimal set (like PK, LK, and ???) just to
> try it out before I buy the refillable cartridges and ink?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Eric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
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> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
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> ³MODERATORS² OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  ³OWNER² AND ³MODERATORS² OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
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> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>

I can't comment on QTR, but with respect to the 2200, there are a couple of
approaches that you might want to evaluate.

The new PK-N (Neutral/cool Photo Black that MIS will supply) will allow
quite good black only printing on a 2200.  

Simple grayscale curves or a linearization by one of the RIPs might easily
control a BO PKN print.  PKN prints have low bronzing by their nature.

This would allow color inks to remain.  Whether MIS un-coated color is
needed to avoid incompatibility has not been tested by me.  On my 7500 the
UC PK and my MIS pigs looked a bit mottled when mixed.  

The best B&W will still be the dedicated one like the UT7.  There will be a
glop option there that all of us will probably support. Curves can easily
give a cool print from that inkset.  I'm sure the RIPs (or should we be
calling them "printer utilities"?) could easily print cool prints from the
UT7.

For glossy, Glop is the way to go unless you spray the prints.  I spray but
will probably go to Glop in all the glossy inksets.  (I need to fade test
it.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

____________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: e5bowman [mailto:e5bowman@...] 
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 1:13 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] 2200 and QTR/UT7




Hi,

After starting out with UT2 inks in a 1280, I recently purchased a
2200.  I really like the way QTR looks on matte papers, but on
"glossy" (prem. glossy, semigloss, and luster) papers, there is always
a brownish tint.  Though the UT2 prints I made on semigloss had major
bronzing, they were much more "neutral" (i.e., black and gray).

Using the sliders in QTR hasn't really helped much, as even with the
cool settings it seems that the print really isn't neutral.

So - my questions are these:

 - is there some way to get non-brownish prints on RC papers with QTR
and the 2200 (UC inks?

 - if I want to try the UT7 inks in the 2200, do I need to buy all 7,
or is there a way to get a minimal set (like PK, LK, and ???) just to
try it out before I buy the refillable cartridges and ink?

Thanks in advance,
Eric






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Thanks for the info, Paul.  It sounds like I might be better off tring
the whole inkset, though I might try the BO option as well.

You mention the "glop" a couple of times.  Would this be substituted
for one of the seven cartridges in the 2200?

Thanks again,
Eric

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I can't comment on QTR, but with respect to the 2200, there are a
couple of approaches that you might want to evaluate.
> 
> The new PK-N (Neutral/cool Photo Black that MIS will supply) will
allow quite good black only printing on a 2200.  
> 
> Simple grayscale curves or a linearization by one of the RIPs might
easily control a BO PKN print.  PKN prints have low bronzing by their
nature.
> 
> This would allow color inks to remain.  Whether MIS un-coated color
is needed to avoid incompatibility has not been tested by me.  On my
7500 the UC PK and my MIS pigs looked a bit mottled when mixed.  
> 
> The best B&W will still be the dedicated one like the UT7.  There
will be a glop option there that all of us will probably support.
Curves can easily give a cool print from that inkset.  I'm sure the
RIPs (or should we be calling them "printer utilities"?) could easily
print cool prints from the UT7.
> 
> For glossy, Glop is the way to go unless you spray the prints.  I
spray but will probably go to Glop in all the glossy inksets.  (I need
to fade test it.)

> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> ____________________________

Eric,

>You mention the "glop" a couple of times.  Would this be 
>substituted for one of the seven cartridges in the 2200?

Yes.  Those with IJC or QTR are trying various spots.  With the Epson driver
I'll test the Y position.  If it works there I'll write some curves for it.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I can't comment on QTR, but with respect to the 2200, there are a
couple of approaches that you might want to evaluate.
> 
> The new PK-N (Neutral/cool Photo Black that MIS will supply) will
allow quite good black only printing on a 2200.  
> 
> Simple grayscale curves or a linearization by one of the RIPs might
easily control a BO PKN print.  PKN prints have low bronzing by their
nature.
> 
> This would allow color inks to remain.  Whether MIS un-coated color
is needed to avoid incompatibility has not been tested by me.  On my
7500 the UC PK and my MIS pigs looked a bit mottled when mixed.  
> 
> The best B&W will still be the dedicated one like the UT7.  There
will be a glop option there that all of us will probably support.
Curves can easily give a cool print from that inkset.  I'm sure the
RIPs (or should we be calling them "printer utilities"?) could easily
print cool prints from the UT7.
> 
> For glossy, Glop is the way to go unless you spray the prints.  I
spray but will probably go to Glop in all the glossy inksets.  (I need
to fade test it.)
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> ____________________________







Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links