Digital BW, The Print

Wow. I have exactly the same problem and assumed it was operator error on my
part. I also like the results I an getting but it's a pain to use, as you
point out.

Why does Qimage appear to convert grayscale images to rgb? I am using Qimage
to rescale images for printing with QTR/QTRgui. I want it to resample, apply
smart sharpening, maintain the embedded profile, and save the file to the
QTRgui watched folder.

Since I print to a file I have another frustration that may be operator
error. When printing to a file in Qimage I need to set the "paper size" to
the image print size, but can find no way to do it other than reading the
image size in Photoshop and then entering those numbers by hand into the
Qimage dialog box. Sometimes I even need to add just a tiny bit of size to
the image to make sure it doesn't spill over into multiple pages. Am I
missing something? Qimage can read the image size from the file so why do I
need to enter by hand? I hope I am missing something.

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Husband" <thusband@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 12:20 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] QTR Gray Profiles and Qimage




Anybody using the new QTR gray-matte or photo printer profiles when
printing to file with Qimage?  I don't think it's possible as Q
converts the image to rgb and then chokes on the gray-matte profile.
I had to print to file as rgb without a profile and then take it in to
Photoshop to convert to grayscale and add the gray-matte profile.
Then I could print with QTR.

We really need to convince Mike Chaney to add grayscale printing
capability to Qimage.

I like the results though awkward as it is.

Tom






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I have the same problem. I am trying to use Qimage to save the resampled
image file to the QTRgui watched folder. This doesn't work because Qimage
converts my grayscale image to rgb.

I want Qimage to resample the grayscale image, smart sharpen, then save the
file with the embedded profile (gray gamma 2.2) as a tiff. Is this possible?

There is a related frustration that may be my misunderstanding. In printing
to a file you need to set the "paper size" to the image size in a dialog box
by hand. This requires reading the exact print size from Photoshop then
entering it into the Qimage paper size dialog box. Is there a better way?

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Husband" <thusband@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 12:20 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] QTR Gray Profiles and Qimage




Anybody using the new QTR gray-matte or photo printer profiles when
printing to file with Qimage?  I don't think it's possible as Q
converts the image to rgb and then chokes on the gray-matte profile.
I had to print to file as rgb without a profile and then take it in to
Photoshop to convert to grayscale and add the gray-matte profile.
Then I could print with QTR.

We really need to convince Mike Chaney to add grayscale printing
capability to Qimage.

I like the results though awkward as it is.

Tom






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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Set the paper size to the physical paper size less the 1/8 inch margins.
Then do your page composition in QImage.
 
 
-Stephen
 www.sbillard.org/Stephen

-----Original Message-----
From: steve_bye [mailto:steve_bye@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 5:08 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QTR Gray Profiles and Qimage


There is a related frustration that may be my misunderstanding. In printing
to a file you need to set the "paper size" to the image size in a dialog box
by hand. This requires reading the exact print size from Photoshop then
entering it into the Qimage paper size dialog box. Is there a better way?

Steve




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "steve_bye"
<steve_bye@c...> wrote:
(snip)
> Why does Qimage appear to convert grayscale images to rgb? I am
using Qimage
> to rescale images for printing with QTR/QTRgui. I want it to
resample, apply
> smart sharpening, maintain the embedded profile, and save the file
to the
> QTRgui watched folder.

Qimage changes a grayscale to rgb.  It won't print grayscale.  It's
been asked about in the Qimage group and I think it's on Mike's list
to do.  How far down I don't know.  It wasn't critical before the new
QTR gray profiles as QTR could take an rgb image.  Now, however, we
really need Q to have that capability.

> Since I print to a file I have another frustration that may be operator
> error. When printing to a file in Qimage I need to set the "paper
size" to
> the image print size, but can find no way to do it other than
reading the
> image size in Photoshop and then entering those numbers by hand into the
> Qimage dialog box. Sometimes I even need to add just a tiny bit of
size to
> the image to make sure it doesn't spill over into multiple pages. Am I
> missing something? Qimage can read the image size from the file so
why do I
> need to enter by hand? I hope I am missing something.
> 
> Steve

When I print to file in Q I just select one of the print size buttons
on the right.  I've already set my 1280 up to print to the paper size.
 I did that set to "print to printer" using printer set up next to the
printer button at the top.  I don't fool with sizing at all in
Photoshop.  I don't print to the edge however.  I'll print at say 5x7
image on 8 1/2 x 11 paper.  Try setting up your printer with the paper
size as if you're going to print.  Once that's done change it to
"print to file".  QTR is set to letter size too of course.

Hope that helps.

Tom

Steve and others,

I have been able to print a "gray-matte" image using Qimage directly.

My steps were:

1. Load initial B&W scan.

2. Assign gray-lab working space.

3. Crop, spot, levels, curves, etc. as necessary.  No re-sampling in PS.

4. Save this image as my master TIFF (or PSD).

5. Convert to gray-matte and save as my printable TIFF.

6. All of the above steps are done in my case in 16 bit grayscale as that
was the original scan.

7. Start up Qimage and put the gray-matte image in the queue and print to
file.  Note that I have ICC printer profile turned off in Qimage.

8. Qimage processes the file, saves to my monitor folder and QTRGui/QTR
prints it.

It is true that Qimage DOES convert the file to RGB (8-bit RGB) when Qimage
loads it and you can verify that the "save to file" re-sampled and sharpened
image out of Qimage that is in your QTRGUI "processed" folder is an 8-bit
RGB with no color profile embedded.  I am getting output that is closer to
what I see on the screen with this workflow but I do wish Mike would support
grayscale in Qimage.  16 bit would be nice as well.

If you try to set your Qimage printer profile at gray-matte, Qimage gags and
complains that grayscale is not supported.

I posted a message about supporting grayscale embedded ICC profiles in the
Qimage support group but didn't get even one reply.  So I can only assume
nobody else is doing what we are doing (or cares).  And, Mike didn't respond
either.

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul A.
Yesnosky" <pyesnosky@c...> wrote:
> Steve and others,

(big snip)

> I posted a message about supporting grayscale embedded ICC profiles
in the
> Qimage support group but didn't get even one reply.  So I can only
assume
> nobody else is doing what we are doing (or cares).  And, Mike didn't
respond
> either.
> 
> Paul

Paul,

I just did it again so we'll see how this one gets.

Tom

If the GrayLab profile was accepted as a "colorspace" profile
then it would function with Qimage's CM as well in my opinion.
Grayscale files loaded will be converted to RGB in the process
to the "printfile". Including the printer profile selected.
The RGB file it delivers should be converted back to grayscale
but QTRgui takes care of that as far as I know. Like PS Qimage
doesn't accept the Graylab profile as a "Colorspace" and it
doesn't have the grayscale management that PS has.

Which colorspace profile has the same effect as the graylab 
profile on a grayscale image or B&W RGB file ? Keeping L and 
throwing a and b out shouldn't be different from setting a and 
b to zero. Or an AdobeRGB profile with all the saturation per 
rendering taken out in an editor. Where's the flaw in my 
thoughts ?
Qimage loads the gray etc printer profile but not the graylab 
profile. All dry trials though so I don't know what results  I 
can get right now.

I have asked MIke not so long ago where on the list the 
grayscale engine for Qimage is, it is very low on the priority
list he wrote. I think it would be faster to add another 
GrayLab "colorspace"profile etc that would enable us to use 
the adapted profiles in Qimage's CM system.

I wonder how the CM parts in the workflow interact with the 
interpolation, sharpening routines of Qimage if they are 
applied in a different order to one another. For example: PS 
total CM first>Qimage's sharpening etc>no Qimage CM 
activity>RGB print file, PS grayscale to RGB conversion + 
Graylab (color version)>RGB file to Qimage> Qimage's 
sharpening + interpolation>gray printer profile (color 
version)>RGB print file.

Ernst

Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> Qimage loads the gray etc printer profile but not the graylab 
> profile. All dry trials though so I don't know what results  I 
> can get right now.

Well on all the profiles it goes flat and so does the 3D 
profile viewer of the Wasatch SoftRip.

Something more compatible with ICM standards has to appear or 
Qimage has to get a greyscale engine a la PS.

Ernst

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:07:34 -0000, "Tom Husband"
<thusband@...> wrote:

>
>
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul A.
>Yesnosky" <pyesnosky@c...> wrote:
>> Steve and others,
>
>(big snip)
>
>> I posted a message about supporting grayscale embedded ICC profiles
>in the
>> Qimage support group but didn't get even one reply.  So I can only
>assume
>> nobody else is doing what we are doing (or cares).  And, Mike didn't
>respond
>> either.
>> 
>> Paul
>
>Paul,
>
>I just did it again so we'll see how this one gets.
>
>Tom
>
>

Well, I would be supporting it if I was convinced I could continue to
use QTR (which I have registered). Unless the problem with keylines on
the 1160 with Windows XP can be fixed, then I can't use it.
Mike Finley, http://www.efikim.co.uk