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2005-02-03 by Pieris Berreitter
For anyone not yet convinced it's worth trying Roy's paper profiles: http://www.pmb.net/darkroom/2005/02/roy-harringtons-gray-profile.html -Pieris digital darkroom blog: http://www.pmb.net/darkroom
2005-02-03 by Altaf Bhimji
I just downloaded this - and am trying to understand how to use it... is this the workflow ... assuming using matte paper? 1. assign profile: QTR matte paper 2. do all the adjustments ... 3. print with preview 4. source space - select QTR gray matte paper 5. print space profile QTR gray matte paper 6. intent: perceptual 7. check the black point compensation box
On Feb 3, 2005, at 12:17 AM, Pieris Berreitter wrote: > > > For anyone not yet convinced it's worth trying Roy's paper profiles: > > http://www.pmb.net/darkroom/2005/02/roy-harringtons-gray-profile.html > > -Pieris > digital darkroom blog: http://www.pmb.net/darkroom >
2005-02-03 by Jake Hellbach
I'm confused. Are you using Photoshop to print from or something else? If you are assigning the QTR matte paper profile and printing though Photoshop are you then using the Epson driver (or whatever printer you have) to print to from Photoshop? I thought when using QTR you have to use QTR itself to print the photos. You use Photoshop just to get the photos ready to print. Thanks for the clarification, Jake Fine Art Photography www.jakehellbachphoto.com
-----Original Message----- From: Altaf Bhimji [mailto:altafb@...] I just downloaded this - and am trying to understand how to use it... is this the workflow ... assuming using matte paper? 1. assign profile: QTR matte paper 2. do all the adjustments ... 3. print with preview 4. source space - select QTR gray matte paper 5. print space profile QTR gray matte paper 6. intent: perceptual 7. check the black point compensation box [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-02-03 by STEVE DEER
jake I'm new to this too, so i stand to be corrected. All qtr commands/controls etc, are available thru photshop's 'print setup' dialogue. Even qtr's own user interface. steve --- Jake Hellbach <jake@...> wrote: --------------------------------- I'm confused. Are you using Photoshop to print from or something else? If you are assigning the QTR matte paper profile and printing though Photoshop are you then using the Epson driver (or whatever printer you have) to print to from Photoshop? I thought when using QTR you have to use QTR itself to print the photos. You use Photoshop just to get the photos ready to print. Thanks for the clarification, Jake Fine Art Photography www.jakehellbachphoto.com
-----Original Message----- From: Altaf Bhimji [mailto:altafb@...] I just downloaded this - and am trying to understand how to use it... is this the workflow ... assuming using matte paper? 1. assign profile: QTR matte paper 2. do all the adjustments ... 3. print with preview 4. source space - select QTR gray matte paper 5. print space profile QTR gray matte paper 6. intent: perceptual 7. check the black point compensation box [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
2005-02-03 by Steve Kale
No. Think colour. Set QTR Lab Gray as your grey workspace (instead of Gray Gamma 2.2). When you open an image that was gray gamma 2.2 you will have a profile mismatch between your workspace and doc space and so it will ask you what you want to do. If you like the way the image looked on screen then convert the doc profile to QTR Lab Gray. Set up a soft proof with either QTR Gray Matte Paper or QTR Gray Photo paper using perceptual intent with Black point compensation checked. Edit doc. Now printing. Just like colour you are going to use the PS colour engine to do an on the fly conversion of the doc from its tagged QTR Lab Gray space to QTR Gray Matte Paper (or Photo) using Perceptual Intent and Black Point Compensation. Doc space is of course QTR Lab Gray. Print space should be either QTR Gray Matte Paper or Photo. Intent is Perceptual and Black Point Compensatio0n is checked. Hit enter. In the QTR driver all is as before.
> From: Altaf Bhimji <altafb@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 00:29:42 -0800 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Roy's gray profile for QTR > > > I just downloaded this - and am trying to understand how to use it... > > is this the workflow ... assuming using matte paper? > > 1. assign profile: QTR matte paper > > 2. do all the adjustments ... > > 3. print with preview > > 4. source space - select QTR gray matte paper > > 5. print space profile QTR gray matte paper > > 6. intent: perceptual > > 7. check the black point compensation box > > > > On Feb 3, 2005, at 12:17 AM, Pieris Berreitter wrote: >
2005-02-03 by Steve Kale
The only deviation from this is, as noted in earlier posts, for PC users using QTR GUI. Here you can't do the "on the fly" conversion. You have to do it manually - after saving the edited file tagged as QTR Gray Lab - so convert to matte or photo as appropriate and save as a tiff. Print the tiff as normal.
> From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:32:24 +0000 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Roy's gray profile for QTR > > > No. Think colour. > > Set QTR Lab Gray as your grey workspace (instead of Gray Gamma 2.2). When > you open an image that was gray gamma 2.2 you will have a profile mismatch > between your workspace and doc space and so it will ask you what you want to > do. If you like the way the image looked on screen then convert the doc > profile to QTR Lab Gray. > > Set up a soft proof with either QTR Gray Matte Paper or QTR Gray Photo paper > using perceptual intent with Black point compensation checked. Edit doc. > > Now printing. Just like colour you are going to use the PS colour engine to > do an on the fly conversion of the doc from its tagged QTR Lab Gray space to > QTR Gray Matte Paper (or Photo) using Perceptual Intent and Black Point > Compensation. Doc space is of course QTR Lab Gray. Print space should be > either QTR Gray Matte Paper or Photo. Intent is Perceptual and Black Point > Compensatio0n is checked. Hit enter. In the QTR driver all is as before. > >
2005-02-03 by jymbo4600
OK I am really confused (not a new state). I am using QTR on a Windows XP Pro box. And I really really want to try the QTR grey matte/photo settings. All of the workflows seem to be for the Mac version. 1. Where do I get the QTR Lab gray workspace? And where do I put it when I find it? 2. How do I set it as my workspace? 3.I need a step by step here as I am totally at sea. Mind you I have been getting great results with QTR for over a month and love it, but this seems to be an even better workflow. Thanks for your patience. Jim Weekes > > > > > > > No. Think colour. > > > > Set QTR Lab Gray as your grey workspace (instead of Gray Gamma 2.2). When > > you open an image that was gray gamma 2.2 you will have a profile mismatch > > between your workspace and doc space and so it will ask you what you want to > > do. If you like the way the image looked on screen then convert the doc > > profile to QTR Lab Gray. > > > > Set up a soft proof with either QTR Gray Matte Paper or QTR Gray Photo paper > > using perceptual intent with Black point compensation checked. Edit doc. > > > > Now printing. Just like colour you are going to use the PS colour engine to > > do an on the fly conversion of the doc from its tagged QTR Lab Gray space to > > QTR Gray Matte Paper (or Photo) using Perceptual Intent and Black Point > > Compensation. Doc space is of course QTR Lab Gray. Print space should be > > either QTR Gray Matte Paper or Photo. Intent is Perceptual and Black Point > > Compensatio0n is checked. Hit enter. In the QTR driver all is as before. > > > >
2005-02-03 by Steve Kale
Err got to Roy's download page: http://homepage.mac.com/royharrington/FileSharing2.html It is linked from his website: http://harrington.com/index.shtml Follow the instructions. (it is not a Mac vs PC thing except for the point I noted in a post earlier today.)
> From: jymbo4600 <jymbo46@...> > > OK I am really confused (not a new state). I am using QTR on a Windows > XP Pro box. And I really really want to try the QTR grey matte/photo > settings. All of the workflows seem to be for the Mac version. > > 1. Where do I get the QTR Lab gray workspace? And where do I put it > when I find it? > > 2. How do I set it as my workspace? > > 3.I need a step by step here as I am totally at sea. > > Mind you I have been getting great results with QTR for over a month > and love it, but this seems to be an even better workflow. > > Thanks for your patience. Jim Weekes >
2005-02-03 by Steve Kale
And to make it easier it is greyspace.zip that you want.
> From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 18:04:07 +0000 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Roy's gray profile for QTR > > > Err got to Roy's download page: > > http://homepage.mac.com/royharrington/FileSharing2.html > > It is linked from his website: > > http://harrington.com/index.shtml > > Follow the instructions. > > (it is not a Mac vs PC thing except for the point I noted in a post earlier > today.) >
2005-02-03 by ldina
Jim, Here is a step by step for Windows XP Users. First, download Roy's Lab profiles and unzip them to your desktop. Here is the link: http://homepage.mac.com/royharrington/FileSharing2.html After unzipping them, copy the files to the following directory: C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color Sart photoshop and open a file, whether it be RGB or grayscale. If you like the tonality as it exists on your calibrated monitor, then you will want to convert the file to the Lab Grayscale profile, as follows: Image > Mode > Convert to Profile > Gray-Lab.icc Be sure rendering intent is perceptual and black point compensation is checked. Now, you file has been converted to the generic gray lab space. If you wish, edit the file in photoshop until you get it the way you want it. When happy, save it with the embedded profile as a TIF, PSD or JPG file. Now you have a "master" file which you can use to create a file for printing. If you want to output to matte paper, do another conversion the same as above, but use the "Gray-Matte" profile, with perceptual and BPC checked. Save this and import it into QTR or IJC/OPM for printing. If you wanted to send the file to glossy or semi gloss type paper, use your master file and convert to the "Gray-Photo" profile, using perceptual and BPC. Save and import into QTR or IJC/OPM for printing. When printing from QTR or IJC/OPM, you will need to select the appropriate profile for matte or glossy paper, and your other settings as you usually do. When the print comes off the printer, it should be a pretty close match from a tonality standpoint to what you saw on your calibrated monitor. Apparently, the Mac allows you to convert on the fly. With Windows you have to save the converted file first as documented above. Hope that clarifies it. Lou --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jymbo4600" <jymbo46@b...> wrote: > > OK I am really confused (not a new state). I am using QTR on a Windows
> XP Pro box. And I really really want to try the QTR grey matte/photo > settings. All of the workflows seem to be for the Mac version. > > 1. Where do I get the QTR Lab gray workspace? And where do I put it > when I find it? > > 2. How do I set it as my workspace? > > 3.I need a step by step here as I am totally at sea. > > Mind you I have been getting great results with QTR for over a month > and love it, but this seems to be an even better workflow. > > Thanks for your patience. Jim Weekes
2005-02-03 by Pieris Berreitter
If anyone has any suggested deviations from the following workflow, please let me know. Otherwise it's going as-is into my "how to" digital darkroom web page. Download grayspace from http://homepage.mac.com/royharrington/FileSharing2.html There's an informative readme in this zip file, which gives installation and usage instructions. Throughout the workspace, there is only one instance when you would ever use "assign profile" as opposed to "convert to profile." That is if you are perfectly happy with how your existing image prints, but you want to use Gray Lab to save time and space. PC users: - Get the image into Gray Lab by converting to Gray Lab space. - You may soft proof in the Gray Matte/Glossy paper profile and work in this space, for best WYSIWYG experience. - convert to matte or glossy gray paper profile when ready to print. Mac users (what Steve Kale said): same as for PC, but when printing: - print with the following settings: document space=QTR Gray Lab print space=QTR Gray Matte/Photo Paper Intent=Perceptual Black Point Compensation=on -Pieris digital darkroom blog: http://www.pmb.net/darkroom --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jymbo4600" <jymbo46@b...> wrote: > > OK I am really confused (not a new state). I am using QTR on a Windows
> XP Pro box. And I really really want to try the QTR grey matte/photo > settings. All of the workflows seem to be for the Mac version. > > 1. Where do I get the QTR Lab gray workspace? And where do I put it > when I find it? > > 2. How do I set it as my workspace? > > 3.I need a step by step here as I am totally at sea. > > Mind you I have been getting great results with QTR for over a month > and love it, but this seems to be an even better workflow. > > Thanks for your patience. Jim Weekes >
2005-02-03 by Geri Brown
I am new to digital BW. I am feeling quite lost. I have done quite a bit of reading on how to convert from color to BW. Any tips would be appreciated. However, my main issue is the digital printing and a end product that can replicate work in the darkroom. I plan to use my old 1160 for BW and have just ordered : 1 - ARC-SO20089-QUT Description = 3 SHADE ULTRATONE BLK & WHT CART ( I am not quite sure why I need this except I thought it would be good to put in the color cartridge slot) Can someone tell me more about this? 1 -.46873 Product Number = ARC-SO20108-UTK Description = 10 CART EBONI BLK ( I think I use this in place of the black cartridge.) To start I will be using Epson Enhanced Matt paper. Are there other papers you can recommend? I downloaded and unzipped Paul Roark's UltraTone Information and Settings for Epson 860 and 1160 Printers, which I am not certain how to use. A further explanation on exactly how I get these to relate to my printer would be helpful. Do I need any other software? I see quite a bit of mention of QTR and other RIP software? Thanks. Geri Brown [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-02-03 by Pieris Berreitter
Lou, Thanks, didn't mean to duplicate your efforts. Your message didn't show in the thread browser. -Pieris digital darkroom blog: http://www.pmb.net/darkroom --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ldina" <lbdina@c...> wrote: > > Jim, > > Here is a step by step for Windows XP Users. > > First, download Roy's Lab profiles and unzip them to your desktop. > Here is the link: > > http://homepage.mac.com/royharrington/FileSharing2.html > > After unzipping them, copy the files to the following directory: > > C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color > > Sart photoshop and open a file, whether it be RGB or grayscale. If > you like the tonality as it exists on your calibrated monitor, then > you will want to convert the file to the Lab Grayscale profile, as > follows: > > Image > Mode > Convert to Profile > Gray-Lab.icc > Be sure rendering intent is perceptual and black point compensation > is checked. Now, you file has been converted to the generic gray lab > space. If you wish, edit the file in photoshop until you get it the > way you want it. When happy, save it with the embedded profile as a > TIF, PSD or JPG file. Now you have a "master" file which you can use > to create a file for printing. > > If you want to output to matte paper, do another conversion the same > as above, but use the "Gray-Matte" profile, with perceptual and BPC > checked. Save this and import it into QTR or IJC/OPM for printing. > > If you wanted to send the file to glossy or semi gloss type paper, > use your master file and convert to the "Gray-Photo" profile, using > perceptual and BPC. Save and import into QTR or IJC/OPM for printing. > > When printing from QTR or IJC/OPM, you will need to select the > appropriate profile for matte or glossy paper, and your other > settings as you usually do. When the print comes off the printer, it > should be a pretty close match from a tonality standpoint to what you > saw on your calibrated monitor. > > Apparently, the Mac allows you to convert on the fly. With Windows > you have to save the converted file first as documented above. Hope > that clarifies it. > > Lou > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jymbo4600" > <jymbo46@b...> wrote: > > > > OK I am really confused (not a new state). I am using QTR on a > Windows > > XP Pro box. And I really really want to try the QTR grey matte/photo > > settings. All of the workflows seem to be for the Mac version. > > > > 1. Where do I get the QTR Lab gray workspace? And where do I put it > > when I find it? > > > > 2. How do I set it as my workspace? > > > > 3.I need a step by step here as I am totally at sea. > > > > Mind you I have been getting great results with QTR for over a month
> > and love it, but this seems to be an even better workflow. > > > > Thanks for your patience. Jim Weekes
2005-02-03 by ferdinand_paris
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> wrote: > The only deviation from this is, as noted in earlier posts, for > PC users using QTR GUI. Here you can't do the "on the fly" > conversion. You have to do it manually - .... In theory we PC users could do on the fly conversion in Qimage. However in practice you can't as Qimage doesn't do grayscale. This is a good reason for all PC users to get on over to the Qimage group and support the groundswell for Qimage to support grayscale. Please. [There is a workaround in Qimage - to use RGB versions of Roy's new profile, but they don't seem to working properly. The matte profile darkens prints too much. However the glossy profile shows promise.] F_P
2005-02-03 by Steve Kale
People just need to think of a colour managed workflow. This is colour managed except that rather than profiling every single ink and paper for both luminosity and hue, Roy has made too approximate profiles which ignore hue (Lab without the a and b remember) - one for a "general" matte paper and one for photo. So think printing and soft-proofing with your Epson colour-managed workflow. You select the print space and select your intent (in this case perceptual) and check black point. As for QTR Gray Lab - it is Lab less the a and b (because in editing a=b=0 for B&W). Simple. Elegant. Powerful.
> From: Pieris Berreitter <pieris@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 18:14:12 -0000 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Roy's gray profile for QTR > > > > If anyone has any suggested deviations from the following workflow, > please let me know. Otherwise it's going as-is into my "how to" > digital darkroom web page. > > Download grayspace from > http://homepage.mac.com/royharrington/FileSharing2.html > > There's an informative readme in this zip file, which gives > installation and usage instructions. > > Throughout the workspace, there is only one instance when you would > ever use "assign profile" as opposed to "convert to profile." That is > if you are perfectly happy with how your existing image prints, but > you want to use Gray Lab to save time and space. > > PC users: > - Get the image into Gray Lab by converting to Gray Lab space. > - You may soft proof in the Gray Matte/Glossy paper profile and work > in this space, for best WYSIWYG experience. > - convert to matte or glossy gray paper profile > when ready to print. > > Mac users (what Steve Kale said): > same as for PC, but when printing: > - print with the following settings: > document space=QTR Gray Lab > print space=QTR Gray Matte/Photo Paper > Intent=Perceptual > Black Point Compensation=on > > -Pieris
2005-02-03 by Peter Palmieri
The photo and matte profiles will not install. A dialogue box comes stating that these two profiles are not valid profiles. The others installed with no problem.
Now I am trying to figure out how to print the instructions so that the words on the right margin are not blanked out.
Peter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2005-02-03 by jymbo4600
Lou and Steve, Thank you both for your prompt, clear and patient replies. My main problem had been going on Roy's site and thinking that the gray setup, being under the Mac download was for Mac only (cleverly avoiding the clearly posted Mac & windows notice). Your directions are so clear that if I can't get it from here, I'll never tell. Every now and then we all need our hands held and this group has been wonderful for that. Now to go play. Thanks again, Jim Weekes
> Here is a step by step for Windows XP Users. > > snip
2005-02-04 by Roy Harrington
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Palmieri" <pcpalmieri@c...> wrote: > The photo and matte profiles will not install. A dialogue box comes stating that these two profiles are not valid profiles. The others installed with no problem. > > Now I am trying to figure out how to print the instructions so that the words on the right margin are not blanked out. > > Peter > Peter, Are you using a Photoshop version 6 or less? The icc format evolves from version to version and so far I haven't figured out what PS v6 doesn't like. Roy
2005-02-04 by rgb2bw
Geri, I use the Epson 2200 printer and ImagePrint RIP. I get incredible results with it. I don't know if you want or need any more information about converting color to B&W, but my web site covers it in detail. I plan on having information on finding your printers black point in the February release of the web site. A printers black point is where your printer can no longer handle shadow detail and resorts to printing solid black. Thomas http://www.zuberphotographics.com/index.htm
2005-02-04 by Peter Palmieri
Roy--no I am using PS CS and XP Home. This happened when I right clicked on the profile to install it. After some playing around, I tried "Copy to color folder". By doing so the profiles were copied in the color folder and installed. I learned something! Peter Peter, Are you using a Photoshop version 6 or less? The icc format evolves from version to version and so far I haven't figured out what PS v6 doesn't like. Roy The photo and matte profiles will not install. A dialogue box opens stating that these two profiles are not valid profiles. The others installed with no problem. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-02-04 by scott_now_coming
"A printers black point is where your printer can no longer handle shadow detail and resorts to printing solid black." Would it work in QImage simply by enabling "black point compensation"? (I'm assuming, here, that you are familiar with QI) Thank again Thomas, Scott --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "rgb2bw" <jnk0941@e...> wrote: > > Geri, > > I use the Epson 2200 printer and ImagePrint RIP. I get incredible > results with it. > > I don't know if you want or need any more information about > converting color to B&W, but my web site covers it in detail. > > I plan on having information on finding your printers black point in > the February release of the web site. A printers black point is > where your printer can no longer handle shadow detail and resorts to
> printing solid black. > > Thomas > > http://www.zuberphotographics.com/index.htm