Digital BW, The Print

> 
> 
> There are 25 messages in this issue.
> 
> Topics in this digest:
> 
>       1. QTR Curve creation
>            From: photoian@...
>       2. Premier Hot Press Fine Art Paper
>            From: "lawprof2001" <Berg@...>
>       3. Re: QTR Curve creation
>            From: Carl Schofield <scho@...>
>       4. Re: Premier Hot Press Fine Art Paper
>            From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@...>
>       5. Re: Premier Hot Press Fine Art Paper
>            From: "chipcarterdc" <chipcarterdc@...>
>       6. Densitometers again
>            From: "Steven Karafyllakis" <steve@...>
>       7. Re: Densitometers again
>            From: "Louis Dina" <lbdina@...>
>       8. Re: HP 8750 PhotoSmart with 9-color inks
>            From: "bghess_sp" <bghess_sp@...>
>       9. Re: Which Printer should I get?
>            From: "Clayton Jones" <cj@...>
>      10. RE: Premier Hot Press Fine Art Paper
>            From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
>      11. Re: hahnemuehle photo rag with QTR on epson 2100
>            From: Walt Farrell <wftemp1@...>
>      12. RE: MIS EZ Inks
>            From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
>      13. Re: Re: Which Printer should I get?
>            From: "Peter Palmieri" <pcpalmieri@...>
>      14. OT but Important News
>            From: "Clayton Jones" <cj@...>
>      15. Re: OT but Important News
>            From: Kip Babington <cbabing3@...>
>      16. Curling
>            From: Richard Smallfield <r.smallfield@...>
>      17. Re: OT but Important News
>            From: Mark Carstens <mathdude5@...>
>      18. Re: Densitometers again
>            From: "Steven Karafyllakis" <steve@...>
>      19. Re: Densitometers again vs Spectro-
>            From: "Antonis" <antonisphoto@...>
>      20. QTR and Epson 2200 with Mac OS X - slow print
>            From: "yanceyiv" <bvaughn4@...>
>      21. Re: Epson's 13 x 19 inkjets compared & contrasted
>            From: Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...>
>      22. Re: Epson's 13 x 19 inkjets compared & contrasted
>            From: Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...>
>      23. Re: QTR and Banding - ALWAYS
>            From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
>      24. Re:  QTR neutral curve PKN, UT7 Light warm/cool grey
>            From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
>      25. Re: hahnemuehle photo rag with QTR on epson 2100
>            From: "hublaif" <hub.laif@...>
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 1         
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:18:34 +0000
>    From: photoian@...
> Subject: QTR Curve creation
> 
> 
> Carl Schofield;
> I have been following this group for a little while and have an Epson 4000 with 
> Win XP. I have the latest QTRgui 2.2  and have read the tutorial.
> I don't get the screens shown in the tutorial so I haven't been able to follow 
> your discussion with Steve with any comprehension.
> I've made some really nice prints with the canned curves but I'd like to try 
> creating some curves.
> Can you help?
> 
> Ian McKee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 2         
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:09:55 -0000
>    From: "lawprof2001" <Berg@...>
> Subject: Premier Hot Press Fine Art Paper
> 
> 
> Does anyone know a source for this paper in sizes larger than 8 1/2 x
> 11? Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 3         
>    Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:08:12 -0500
>    From: Carl Schofield <scho@...>
> Subject: Re: QTR Curve creation
> 
> Steve and I are both using the Mac version of QTR.  I'm not familiar 
> with the profile creation process on the PC so you might want to ask 
> some of the PC users on the list for help.
> 
> Carl
> 
> On Feb 21, 2005, at 7:18 PM, photoian@... wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Carl Schofield;
> > I have been following this group for a little while and have an Epson 
> > 4000 with Win XP. I have the latest QTRgui 2.2  and have read the 
> > tutorial.
> > I don't get the screens shown in the tutorial so I haven't been able 
> > to follow your discussion with Steve with any comprehension.
> > I've made some really nice prints with the canned curves but I'd like 
> > to try creating some curves.
> > Can you help?
> >
> > Ian McKee
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 4         
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:12:38 -0000
>    From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@...>
> Subject: Re: Premier Hot Press Fine Art Paper
> 
> 
> www.digitalartsupplies.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lawprof2001" <Berg@m....> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone know a source for this paper in sizes larger than 8 1/2 x
> > 11? Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 5         
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:19:14 -0000
>    From: "chipcarterdc" <chipcarterdc@...>
> Subject: Re: Premier Hot Press Fine Art Paper
> 
> 
> This link has a list of PremierArt dealers: 
> 
> http://www.premierimagingproducts.com/dealerinfo/
> 
> I've bought my Hot Press paper from Photo Warehouse, which is listed there.
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lawprof2001" <
> Berg@m...> wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone know a source for this paper in sizes larger than 8 1/2 x
> > 11? Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 6         
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:39:25 -0000
>    From: "Steven Karafyllakis" <steve@...>
> Subject: Densitometers again
> 
> 
> Hello all;
> 
> In the last exchange about this, I believe Lou Duna stated that the 
> xrite-810 can't be used to create icm profiles, and yet the 810 will 
> read RGB values, which sounds contradictory. Can someone explain 
> further, and if it is the case that you need a spectro, what did 
> they use before spectros? They have only been around a few years 
> yes? ICM has been around much longer? 
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 7         
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:50:56 -0000
>    From: "Louis Dina" <lbdina@...>
> Subject: Re: Densitometers again
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> I could be wrong about the densitometer not being able to build ICC 
> profiles.  That was an assumption on my part, and may be incorrect.  
> Densitometers are used a lot by commercial printers for evaluating 
> output.  But, I'd better defer to someone with more densitometer 
> experience.  Sorry if I led you astray.
> 
> Lou
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
> Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > Hello all;
> > 
> > In the last exchange about this, I believe Lou Duna stated that the 
> > xrite-810 can't be used to create icm profiles, and yet the 810 
> will 
> > read RGB values, which sounds contradictory. Can someone explain 
> > further, and if it is the case that you need a spectro, what did 
> > they use before spectros? They have only been around a few years 
> > yes? ICM has been around much longer? 
> > 
> > Steve Karafyllakis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 8         
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 02:13:46 -0000
>    From: "bghess_sp" <bghess_sp@...>
> Subject: Re: HP 8750 PhotoSmart with 9-color inks
> 
> 
> I used an HP 7600 series printer before I got a 2200.  The black and
> white output was excellent as far as nuetrality goes. I still think I
> get better results though from using a quadtone inkset on the 2200.
> Also, I printed a number of postcard sized photos using the HP as
> christmas gifts about a year or so ago. Recently, I saw one of these
> gifts and noticed that it had faded and had begun to turn purplish.
> The print had been in a normally lit living room and had not been
> under glass. That was using the HP premium plus paper too, which is
> said to be their most archival. Hopefully they made some improvements
> with the new series - already I can see one - using two shades of grey
> in addition to the the black ink. If I remember correctly, they only
> used one shade of grey in the 7600 series.
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 9         
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 02:50:28 -0000
>    From: "Clayton Jones" <cj@...>
> Subject: Re: Which Printer should I get?
> 
> 
> Hello Peter,
> 
> >Yes, you are wrong about the 4000. It senses what paper is going to
> be used and chooses photo black or matte black automatically. 
> 
> Sorry not to be more clear, that's not what I meant.  I was referring
> to swapping out different inks to try different ink sets, UT
> positions, glop experiments, etc.  I should have been more specific.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 10        
>    Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:01:06 -0800
>    From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
> Subject: RE: Premier Hot Press Fine Art Paper
> 
> > a source for this paper in sizes larger than 8 1/2 x 11 ...
> 
> www.ITSupplies.com usually has very good prices on Premier Imaging products..
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 11        
>    Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:15:48 -0500
>    From: Walt Farrell <wftemp1@...>
> Subject: Re: hahnemuehle photo rag with QTR on epson 2100
> 
> 
> B. Ellis wrote:
> >>thank you very much - the curves menu doesn\ufffdt have HPR - there are
> >>lots of other papers, but not that one. i got the latest version of
> >>QTR
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Is it possible that you are using Windows and the person who responded about
> > finding HPR in the curves drop-down is using Mac? I use QTR/Gui with Windows
> > and I don't have a curve for HPR either, unless it's been added in a more
> > current version than the one I'm using.
> 
> No, I'm using a PC to drive my 2200, and I do have the HPR curves I 
> listed in that reply.  It's possible I got them from someone else on 
> this list, I suppose, as the QTR install log doesn't show them.
> 
> If so perhaps someone else will know where they came from; I can't find 
> the file nor URL I installed them from.  Sorry.
> 
> 	Walt
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 12        
>    Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:28:35 -0800
>    From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
> Subject: RE: MIS EZ Inks
> 
> 
> 
> >I just purchased an Epson C86 printer and EZ-W inks. ...
> >I feel the EZ-W inks are too warm.
> 
> It's pure carbon, with is half way to sepia, but also the most lightfast
> inks for archiving old photos -- which is one market this combo was designed
> for.
> 
> >I have read that combining EZ-W inks with EZ-N inks may 
> >cool up the image. I would like a slightly warmer high value 
> >image with a neutral bottom to black image tone. Is this possible ?
> 
> 
> It is with curves, but assuming you don't want to get into that, the most
> important difference to work with in the way the inks are put down is that
> the Cyan is close to the others in the highlights, but flattens out so that
> it is much lighter in the shadows.  So, a warm ink in the cyan would tend to
> give you relatively cooler shadows if there were neutral-cool inks in the
> others or one of the others.
> 
> Many rag papers print cooler in the shadow also.  PremierArt Fine Art Hot
> Press and Photo Rag come to mind in this respect.  The PremierArt  prints
> cooler than Photo Rag.
> 
> You'll have to experiment with how many neutral carts works best for you.
> The carts and inks are the same, but the chips are specific to each
> position.  That can be changed fairly easily.  I use a small piece of tape
> to be sure they don't fall off.  Loading a cart without a chip can wreck the
> printer.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 13        
>    Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:45:02 -0500
>    From: "Peter Palmieri" <pcpalmieri@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Which Printer should I get?
> 
> Clayton--no, it was I who misread your meaning. Sorry! I should have been more 
> alert.
> 
> Peter
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Clayton Jones 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:50 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Which Printer should I get?
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Hello Peter,
> 
>   >Yes, you are wrong about the 4000. It senses what paper is going to
>   be used and chooses photo black or matte black automatically. 
> 
>   Sorry not to be more clear, that's not what I meant.  I was referring
>   to swapping out different inks to try different ink sets, UT
>   positions, glop experiments, etc.  I should have been more specific.
> 
> 
>   Regards,
>   Clayton
> 
> 
>   Info on black and white digital printing at    
>   http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
> they are often being updated.
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
> them short.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership 
> without notice.
>   - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the 
> membership.
>   - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
>   BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR 
> ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, 
> INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA 
> OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
> DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>    
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 14        
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 03:53:29 -0000
>    From: "Clayton Jones" <cj@...>
> Subject: OT but Important News
> 
> 
> Please forgive the OT but this is an important development of interest
> to all photographers...
> 
> You'll probably have to paste the link together into a single line:
> 
> http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.
> php?s=eb6f9515e4a71ce214c31a0442b4eae1&attachmentid=3819
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 15        
>    Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:10:25 -0600
>    From: Kip Babington <cbabing3@...>
> Subject: Re: OT but Important News
> 
> Man that's cool, but I sure hope I can get one of them with a black 
> lens  ;-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Kip
> (former M6 user)
> 
> Clayton Jones wrote:
> 
> >Please forgive the OT but this is an important development of interest
> >to all photographers...
> >
> >You'll probably have to paste the link together into a single line:
> >
> >http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.
> >php?s=eb6f9515e4a71ce214c31a0442b4eae1&attachmentid=3819
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 16        
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:23:52 +1300
>    From: Richard Smallfield <r.smallfield@...>
> Subject: Curling
> 
> Hi,
> I'm about to have an exhibition and am wondering whether I should get my glossy 
> (swellable) HP paper stuck down.
> 
> The strange thing is that I have some 4.5x6" prints on A5 paper matted and 
> framed in my living room and a slight ripple can be seen (just). 
> 
> However, I have an A4 print (all these are on HP swellable paper with Formacote 
> backing), matted and framed, behind the sofa, after not selling at a previous 
> exhibition. 
> 
> Although the bigger one should be more prone to curling, it is the only one that 
> has not observably curled, of the mentioned prints.
> 
> What is happening here?
> 
> So ... A4, is sticking down all that important? 
> 
> thanks,
> Richard
> --
> http://smallfield.vze.com
> http://photos.smallfield.vze.com
> 
>    'A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and
>    making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually
>    die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.'
>    --Max Planck
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 17        
>    Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:07:39 -0800
>    From: Mark Carstens <mathdude5@...>
> Subject: Re: OT but Important News
> 
> Nice! I count at least five different camera bodies and three shutter 
> releases. You'll never miss another piccy!  LOL! :()  Too funny!
> 
> Thanks for keeping me informed, Clayton.
> 
> ~Mark
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 21, 2005, at 7:53 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Please forgive the OT but this is an important development of interest
> > to all photographers...
> >
> > You'll probably have to paste the link together into a single line:
> >
> > http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.
> > php?s=eb6f9515e4a71ce214c31a0442b4eae1&attachmentid=3819
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 18        
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:04:08 -0000
>    From: "Steven Karafyllakis" <steve@...>
> Subject: Re: Densitometers again
> 
> 
> No sweat, Lou, just trying to get a handle in the situation-sorry I 
> misspelled your name!
> 
> Steve K
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" 
> <lbdina@c...> wrote:
> > 
> > Steve,
> > 
> > I could be wrong about the densitometer not being able to build 
> ICC 
> > profiles.  That was an assumption on my part, and may be 
> incorrect.  
> > Densitometers are used a lot by commercial printers for evaluating 
> > output.  But, I'd better defer to someone with more densitometer 
> > experience.  Sorry if I led you astray.
> > 
> > Lou
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
> > Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hello all;
> > > 
> > > In the last exchange about this, I believe Lou Duna stated that 
> the 
> > > xrite-810 can't be used to create icm profiles, and yet the 810 
> > will 
> > > read RGB values, which sounds contradictory. Can someone explain 
> > > further, and if it is the case that you need a spectro, what did 
> > > they use before spectros? They have only been around a few years 
> > > yes? ICM has been around much longer? 
> > > 
> > > Steve Karafyllakis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 19        
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 06:04:07 -0000
>    From: "Antonis" <antonisphoto@...>
> Subject: Re: Densitometers again vs Spectro-
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> ICC profiles are based on spectral data - which we may call
> the "raw" data of how color originates, the frequency of the
> spectrum that a color belongs to. 
> 
> Spectrophotometers used to cost in the $10,000 range not
> that long ago. Even a couple of years back they cost in the
> thousands. It is only now with the eyeOne and other instruments
> that it is possible to get spectral reads within "affordable" range.
> A "spectral read" means that all frequencies of the visible
> light are analyzed (in groups or frequency "bands") and each
> is assigned a value of intensity. From that data, various
> numbers are derived based on interpretations that the ICC
> consortium has determined (such as Lab etc).
> 
> Densitometers, on the other hand, have been around for decades
> and even though the X-Rites (810 etc) carry a hefty list price, it's
> not so much for their reading technology as it is for their stability
> and reliability under the daily grind. What they do is break down the
> spectrum in 3 bands by simply filtering the light they receive
> with red, green and red filters and reading the intensity of light
> coming through each filter.
> The filters they use are calibrated to give their maximum cutoff
> for a frequency (color) that matches that of a specific photographic
> process (E-6, C-41) etc. This is usually referred to as their Status
> (A, M etc).  Because the filters are fixed, the numbers that come
> out can be interpreted as RGB values, where R, G and B are 
> predetermined colors based on the fixed filters in the hardware. 
> CMY numbers can also be derived as simply the complimentaries of RGB.
> A densitometer is fundamentally a process control instrument
> geared to a specific use by its internal, fixed construction. 
> 
> A spectrophotometer OTOH, can read anything at all. More expensive
> instruments have higher resolution and accuracy, but their
> inner workings are based on the same principle.  Since ICC
> profiles try to negotiate how our human vision relates to
> all the display and print possibilities we now have, it needs
> data that is as broad as what is humanly visible. In fact, it
> goes all the way to UV, just to deal with Optical Brighteners
> in papers. None of that is possible through the "narrow 
> window" of the 3-filter densitometer.
> 
> Of course, for black and white, i.e. density alone, its
> possible to use either instrument and, if the math is the same,
> arrive at the same log numbers for density. 
> In IJC, for example, you can use either log density scales
> or the L of Lab. As long as you compensate for the
> different linearities of the scales (via gamma), you end up with the
> same results - though these are not ICC profiles. 
> 
> The only twist to that story is that most spectros
> are auto- or semi-auto readers which makes it faster
> and easier to enter grayscale data. Though there are
> auto readers among densitometers, they seem to be
> more money than they are worth and too much trouble for 
> just reading grayscales. 
> 
> The way things are going with bw printing and toning,
> we really should be counting on using the full spectral data
> for future profiles or soft proofs (people here have
> already done the latter). The spectro has a big
> advantage over the densitometer in assessing the
> coloration of a grayscale. It makes possible a
> more dependable way to tone, and a pretty
> scientific way to find out troublesome inksets
> that will be prone to metamerism. Those that do
> will show suspicious spikes in their spectral data,
> a sure sign that they won't look the same under
> different lights. 
> 
> Of course, these are not just issues involved in
> making ICC profiles; I'm describing the broader scope of which
> the spectros are useful for. In short, no, you can't make
> ICC profiles with an RGB instrument, but you can use
> it to linearize a grayscale and 
> control various color darkroom processes.
> Everything else needs a spectrophotometer.
> 
> 
> Antonis
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Karafyllakis" 
> <steve@s...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Hello all;
> > 
> > In the last exchange about this, I believe Lou Duna stated that the 
> > xrite-810 can't be used to create icm profiles, and yet the 810 will 
> > read RGB values, which sounds contradictory. Can someone explain 
> > further, and if it is the case that you need a spectro, what did 
> > they use before spectros? They have only been around a few years 
> > yes? ICM has been around much longer? 
> > 
> > Steve Karafyllakis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 20        
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 06:07:20 -0000
>    From: "yanceyiv" <bvaughn4@...>
> Subject: QTR and Epson 2200 with Mac OS X - slow print
> 
> 
> Hi all
> 
> I am slowly migrating to a Mac from Win XP. When I print an 8x10 
> from the Mac it seems to be about 5x slower than the PC. Is this 
> normal or do I possibly have something installed incorrectly? Using 
> USB.
> 
> BTW - I have to admit if it is slower, I will learn to live with it 
> because it sure seems to be much better.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 21        
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:46:09 +0100
>    From: Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...>
> Subject: Re: Epson's 13 x 19 inkjets compared & contrasted
> 
> Sam McCandless wrote:
> > Here
> > 
> > <http://www.inkjetart.com/news/archive/IJN_02-21-05.html>
> > 
> > is an interesting compare-and-contrast on the new 1800 vs the 2200 
> > and the 1280.
> 
> 
> A lot of similarities to my thoughts so far, including how it 
> will (not) influence the wide format models in the future.
> 
> Ernst
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 22        
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:48:12 +0100
>    From: Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...>
> Subject: Re: Epson's 13 x 19 inkjets compared & contrasted
> 
> Mark Carstens wrote:
> > So here\ufffds a thought, given the advantages and limitations of the R1800, 
> > if I do both color and B&W, but rarely print beyond 13\ufffd width, then 
> > would it make sense to dedicate my existing 2200 to B&W with UT7 inks 
> > on matte/art papers and buy the new R1800 for color output on luster 
> > paper? Call me crazy, but doesn\ufffdt this make more sense than buying a 
> > second 2200 on the used market for $450 and dedicating that to B&W? I'm 
> > taking advantage of the relative strengths of each printer, but also 
> > improving the output quality for both color and B&W.
> 
> Makes sense, horses for courses and a warranty on the new 
> machine that will keep its Epson inks for the time being.
> 
> Ernst
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 23        
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:39:49 +0000
>    From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
> Subject: Re: QTR and Banding - ALWAYS
> 
> Banding will be parallel to the movement of the print head.  This I do not
> get except with 1440 (not super).  I am a bit late to this thread but have
> you done a head alignment etc?
> 
> 
> > From: joemulligan_68 <joemulligan_68@...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:51:15 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QTR and Banding - ALWAYS
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Steve,
> > 
> > Thank you for your response.
> > 
> > I also use 1440 super and better as well as Ordered Dither.  No
> > matter what settings I use QTR always bands. I am wondering if what
> > I am mistaking for banding is actually visible dithering but I tried
> > adding 2% noise and 5% and this problem is still evident.  I am
> > certain this is not a nozzle problem like I mentioned in my previous
> > post.  
> > 
> > Am I the only one experiencing this problem?  Do you have any other
> > suggestions?  The flexibility of QTR is excellent, now only if I can
> > just get rid of these darned lines!
> > 
> > Many thanks,
> > 
> > JM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 24        
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:44:49 +0000
>    From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
> Subject: Re:  QTR neutral curve PKN, UT7 Light warm/cool grey
> 
> I must have a bad batch.  MIS really needs to put up swatches or something
> so that you can confirm you have the right thing.  And I really don't want
> to have to calibrate each time I buy a bottle of new ink!
> 
> 
> > From: Carl Schofield <scho@...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:40:20 -0500
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW]  QTR neutral curve PKN, UT7 Light warm/cool grey
> > 
> > 
> > I'm baffled.  Your cool partition value is close to mine (20.4), but
> > the warm, sepia, and neutral are all quite a bit higher.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Message: 25        
>    Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:05:53 -0000
>    From: "hublaif" <hub.laif@...>
> Subject: Re: hahnemuehle photo rag with QTR on epson 2100
> 
> 
> thank you so far - i wrote a mail to roy harrington, perhaps he 
> knows the solution... 
> 
> andreas
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Walt Farrell 
> <wftemp1@h...> wrote:
> > 
> > B. Ellis wrote:
> > >>thank you very much - the curves menu doesn\ufffdt have HPR - there 
> are
> > >>lots of other papers, but not that one. i got the latest version 
> of
> > >>QTR
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Is it possible that you are using Windows and the person who 
> responded about
> > > finding HPR in the curves drop-down is using Mac? I use QTR/Gui 
> with Windows
> > > and I don't have a curve for HPR either, unless it's been added 
> in a more
> > > current version than the one I'm using.
> > 
> > No, I'm using a PC to drive my 2200, and I do have the HPR curves 
> I 
> > listed in that reply.  It's possible I got them from someone else 
> on 
> > this list, I suppose, as the QTR install log doesn't show them.
> > 
> > If so perhaps someone else will know where they came from; I can't 
> find 
> > the file nor URL I installed them from.  Sorry.
> > 
> > 	Walt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
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