Digital BW, The Print

Hi all

I have successfully designed the black and light black curves and 
linearised using an eyeone. So far so good. However the tone of the 
print is anything but neutral. I think it looks a little green !! So 
I have been trying to use light cyan and light magenta curves to get 
a more pleasing tone. This part I have found very frustrating. Can 
anyone give me some tips or general advice on a logical way to 
proceed. 

Many thanks

Peter.

I'm new to this list and recently made the leap to digital.  I sold my
darkroom, no time with the baby and another coming next month.  I checked
out the files for the group but did not see anything that compares or even
lists the available RIP options.  I'm brand new to all things digital
including Photoshop.  Any recommendations on this RIP beast would be greatly
appreciated.  Thanks.

Mat

Peter,

I don't remember if you are on a Mac or a PC.  I have a bunch of 2200 
UC inkset profiles for Windows uploaded in the Files section of this 
website.  They'd be a good starting point for you.  For my neutral, 
cool and selenium profiles I use all the inks except yellow.  K,C and 
M inks are used in the shadows, and LK, LC, LM inks are used in the 
highlights and midtones.  The neutral profiles are dead on neutral on 
my printer when measured with my Eye One.  

If you are on a Mac, you can download profiles from the Bowhaus 
website, or ask Joe to convert my profiles to a Mac platform for 
you.  

I spent a lot of time working on my first EEM neutral profile in an 
attempt to get it pretty close to perfectly neutral throughout the 
entire tonal range.  I knew I would be using that as the basis for 
future profiles, so it was worth my time.  

When I print a test target, I let it dry then read samples with my 
Eye One and Measure Tool to determine the extent and location of any 
color casts.  Then I make corrections based on that data to various 
points on the curve.  Or, if the entire grayscale has too much cyan, 
for example, I might lower the cyan ink limit a point or two then 
retry.  Like I said, it takes a little time to get the first profile 
right, but then it becomes pretty easy.  If you start with my 
profiles, you will be 95% of the way there already.  Then, you can 
make adjustments that suit you as you see fit.

If you are using UC Black and Light Black inks only, you will have a 
warm print, since both of these inks are warm black, not neutral.  
The only way to get neutral with the UC inkset is to blend in other 
colors to counteract the natural warmth of these inks.  That's why I 
added LM and LC in the lighter tones, and C and M in the darker 
tones.  In the Windows version, you can copy the LK curve and copy it 
to the LC and LM positions.  This is a great starting point, but you 
will need different ink limits.  

Hope this helps.  Have you read the tutorial on the Bowhaus website?

Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bwbonkers" 
<PeterDLevis@a...> wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> I have successfully designed the black and light black curves and 
> linearised using an eyeone. So far so good. However the tone of the 
> print is anything but neutral. I think it looks a little green !! 
So 
> I have been trying to use light cyan and light magenta curves to 
get 

> a more pleasing tone. This part I have found very frustrating. Can 
> anyone give me some tips or general advice on a logical way to 
> proceed. 
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Peter.

Lou

Thanks for the info. I'm using a Mac with Epson 2100. The ink set is 
Lyson Fotonic ink. I designed the black and light black curves around 
the OEM UC ink curves. These I have modified, ink limits and shape. 
It took me a day of experimenting to get a feel of how the curves/ink 
limit relationship worked.

The problem I now have is understanding the more complex relationship 
of using the other inks to get a neutral gray tone. I will checkout 
your curves.

Thanks

Peter.

>>Any recommendations on this RIP beast would be greatly
>>appreciated. Thanks.


Mat,

you may get some answers faster by looking through the
archives here (i.e. search past messages). Many of us
have answered similar questions many times and you
may not always get people to repeat their answers.

Briefly, you options are as follows:

- you can use RGB curves designed by Paul Roark for MIS
inksets (no cost) for use with the Epson driver

- you can use QTR (Quad Tone Rip) by Roy Harrington
($50 shareware)

- you can buy Inkjet Control and OpenPrintmaker from
Bowhaus ($250)
or the Lyson Digital Darkroom bundle based on same

- you can buy ImagePrint from Colorbyte ($500 and up)

- you can buy StudioPrint by Ergosoft (around $1,500 and up)

- you can opt for the R-9 plug in for photoshop (under $200?)


Most of these work in both platforms. StudioPrint
is Windows only.

I'm sure you can find the related sites for these
through google or the links in our Links area of the
home page.

Currently, popular solutions for bw-only are 
QTR and IJC/OPM

for both bw and color (more of a full service RIP):
ImagePrint and StudioPrint have many followers.

Down the line, you will find a big dividing line between
software that lets you design your own profiles (or curves)
and others that rely on canned profiles. The latter are
easy out of the box but you'll never get the control
and fine tuning of the others. Control comes at a cost:
you have to spend some time learning and have a
densitometer or spectro on hand.

StudioPrint is expensive but allows a fair amount
of control for bw (plus supports color).
IJC does the best for ease of making profiles
and best-bang-for-your-buck in offering
a nicely integrated interface.
QTR has many happy customers who like
the results, especially for the low price. 

Assuming perfect profiles, they can all
produce equally perfect prints. The differences
come in what is involved in making profiles
and other interface and convenience matters.

I am mostly familiar with IJC, which is what I have
been using and find I have no reason to go to
anything else. But, of course, you'll have to
reach your own conclusions depending on your
particular needs.

Good luck.

Antonis

Antonis-

I agree with most everything you are saying here, except that
Studioprint is just about the same price as ImagePrint for a given
printer size. I bought Studioprint for my Epson 4000 for roughly
$850.......

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:00:57 -0000, Antonis <antonisphoto@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> >>Any recommendations on this RIP beast would be greatly
> >>appreciated. Thanks.
> 
> Mat,
> 
> you may get some answers faster by looking through the
> archives here (i.e. search past messages). Many of us
> have answered similar questions many times and you
> may not always get people to repeat their answers.
> 
> Briefly, you options are as follows:
> 
> - you can use RGB curves designed by Paul Roark for MIS
> inksets (no cost) for use with the Epson driver
> 
> - you can use QTR (Quad Tone Rip) by Roy Harrington
> ($50 shareware)
> 
> - you can buy Inkjet Control and OpenPrintmaker from
> Bowhaus ($250)
> or the Lyson Digital Darkroom bundle based on same
> 
> - you can buy ImagePrint from Colorbyte ($500 and up)
> 
> - you can buy StudioPrint by Ergosoft (around $1,500 and up)
> 
> - you can opt for the R-9 plug in for photoshop (under $200?)
> 
> Most of these work in both platforms. StudioPrint
> is Windows only.
> 
> I'm sure you can find the related sites for these
> through google or the links in our Links area of the
> home page.
> 
> Currently, popular solutions for bw-only are
> QTR and IJC/OPM
> 
> for both bw and color (more of a full service RIP):
> ImagePrint and StudioPrint have many followers.
> 
> Down the line, you will find a big dividing line between
> software that lets you design your own profiles (or curves)
> and others that rely on canned profiles. The latter are
> easy out of the box but you'll never get the control
> and fine tuning of the others. Control comes at a cost:
> you have to spend some time learning and have a
> densitometer or spectro on hand.
> 
> StudioPrint is expensive but allows a fair amount
> of control for bw (plus supports color).
> IJC does the best for ease of making profiles
> and best-bang-for-your-buck in offering
> a nicely integrated interface.
> QTR has many happy customers who like
> the results, especially for the low price.
> 
> Assuming perfect profiles, they can all
> produce equally perfect prints. The differences
> come in what is involved in making profiles
> and other interface and convenience matters.
> 
> I am mostly familiar with IJC, which is what I have
> been using and find I have no reason to go to
> anything else. But, of course, you'll have to
> reach your own conclusions depending on your
> particular needs.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Antonis
> 
> 
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Andy,

sorry about that, I was only trying to indicate broad price ranges.
I haven't kept up with current costs for RIPs.

Thanks for the correction.

Antonis



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Andy Biggs <andybiggs@g...> 
wrote:

> Antonis-
> 
> I agree with most everything you are saying here, except that
> Studioprint is just about the same price as ImagePrint for a given
> printer size. I bought Studioprint for my Epson 4000 for roughly
> $850.......
>

Hi Antonis,

just to confirm - IJC and OPM are included in Lysons Daylight
Darkroom ?

It is just that it doesn't spell this out on the Daylight Darkroom
web site.

> - you can buy Inkjet Control and OpenPrintmaker from
> Bowhaus ($250)
> or the Lyson Digital Darkroom bundle based on same

I have IJC and OPM for Mac OSX and an Epson 2100, so all I need is
the Daylight 
Darkroom cartridges

Thanks very much

Josh