Digital BW, The Print

Jeff,

You wrote:

>I recently loaded my Epson 1160 with MIS FS inks. I then proceeded to
>print a few files that I had printed last year with Piezo inks and
>Paul's curves ( PzoRGB4.acv ) via the Epson driver. I was surprised when
>these files printed out about 40% lighter then the Piezo ink prints.

I've never tried the old PzoRGB4 curve with FS inks.  That curve used
different driver settings than the MIS VM curves.  Be sure the color
management section of your 1160 driver has "No Color Adjustment" selected.

> It
>was my understanding that the MIS FS inks where about the same density
>as the Piezo inks.

Most seem to get similar results with the Piezo driver.

>What curves are people using to print with the MIS FS inks and the Epson
>driver ?

Most are using the Piezo driver or the Woolf workflow on the MIS website.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

In a message dated 11/23/2001 5:15:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
paul.roark@... writes:

<< Most are using the Piezo driver or the Woolf workflow on the MIS website. 
>>
Pardon me if this is a redundant question, but does this mean that one can 
substitute the MIS FS inks for the cone quads and get similar results? (using 
the Piezo driver with no other adjustments)?
Thanks for your response.
George J Kunze

Paul,

Just out of curiosity I tried running a couple prints using your Neutral
Cool VM curve on my MIS FS printer, and the results were surprising
good.  Perhaps it is just a fluke, but it seems to produce nice
definition in the highlights and shadows (the shadows, of course, being
the problem areas in the Woolf workflow).  My reasoning behind doing
this was, when using the VM inkset and the NC curve we get good and
relatively equal distribution (partitioning) of the inks into the
appropriate tonal areas, then shouldn't it work for the FS inkset?
Perhaps you have some more insight into this....

Daren

George,

You wrote:

<< Most are using the Piezo driver or the Woolf workflow on the MIS website.
>>

>Pardon me if this is a redundant question, but does this mean that one can
>substitute the MIS FS inks for the cone quads and get similar results?
> (using the Piezo driver with no other adjustments)?


Yes.  The MIS FS inkset is very close to Piezo ink in densities.

It appears that some people get results that are almost identical with
Piezo, others find some minor adjustments are needed.  My own experience
with Piezo is that the densities have varied.  So, it may also be that
different people have different expectations with respect to what the
densities should be.  But the bottom line is that the MIS FS inks seem to be
getting good reviews when printed through the Piezo driver.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Daren,

You wrote:

>Just out of curiosity I tried running a couple prints using [the] Neutral
>Cool VM curve on my MIS FS printer, and the results were surprising
>good.  Perhaps it is just a fluke, but it seems to produce nice
>definition in the highlights and shadows (the shadows, of course, being
>the problem areas in the Woolf workflow).  My reasoning behind doing
>this was, when using the VM inkset and the NC curve we get good and
>relatively equal distribution (partitioning) of the inks into the
>appropriate tonal areas, then shouldn't it work for the FS inkset?
>Perhaps you have some more insight into this....

The MIS VM inks and the FS inks are very similar in the densities of all the
inks except the toner, which is the lightest gray position in the FS inkset.
In the hextone printers the ink positions are entirely different.  However,
in the quad printers the ink positions are the same. The MIS FS densities,
on my scanner, are about 100%, 82%, 38%, and 27%; the MIS VM densities are
about 100%, 83%, 38%, and 42% (toner).

So, if the FS inks are printed with the VM curves, the highlights may be a
little light with the cool curves because the curves were written for the
denser toner.  The best highlights would be with the warm curve, because
this gets the highlight density entirely from the magenta-position in, which
is the same density in both inksets.  (They are not the same inks.)

The VM Sepia-Neutral that I'm printing now will have neutral midtones that
will make a neutral FS inkset.  Once the variable-tone inkset is done, the
corresponding FS inkset is also essentially done.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

In a message dated 11/23/2001 11:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
paul.roark@... writes:

<< But the bottom line is that the MIS FS inks seem to be
 getting good reviews when printed through the Piezo driver. >>
Thanks for your reply Paul. If I wanted to switch over to MIS, do I need to 
install a new CIS and change out completely, or can I just pour my new inks 
into the old bottles? I would also need to know which ink goes into which 
position. Is this info readily availability?
Again, thanks for your generous help and time. Hope you had a great 
Thanksgiving.
George J Kunze

George wrote:

>... If I wanted to switch over to MIS, do I need to
>install a new CIS and change out completely, or can
>I just pour my new inks into the old bottles?

Some do just switch this way.  I don't think it's a good idea, however.

What might save some money is to just buy a replacement CIS cartridge and
just drain the old ink out of the tubing.

I recently needed to put new (actually used but cleaned) tubes on a CIS.  I
pulled off the old tubes and pried off the black top on the cartridge that
holds the tubes in place.  I used a syringe to pull the ink up to the ends
of the new tubes, stuck the tubes on the cartridge fittings, and taped down
the black top/tube holder to the cartridge.  It was very easy.

> I would also need to know which ink goes into which
>position. Is this info readily availability?

The MIS FS bottles are marked with a letter indicating the ink position.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

________


In a message dated 11/23/2001 11:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
paul.roark@... writes:

<< But the bottom line is that the MIS FS inks seem to be
getting good reviews when printed through the Piezo driver. >>

George, I'm about to do the same as you and I'll be using a new cis. There
are too many reasons to think that the greenies are caused by something in
the cis interacting with the piezo inks.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: <toomagenta@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS FS Question


> In a message dated 11/23/2001 11:26:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> paul.roark@... writes:
>
> << But the bottom line is that the MIS FS inks seem to be
>  getting good reviews when printed through the Piezo driver. >>
> Thanks for your reply Paul. If I wanted to switch over to MIS, do I need
to
> install a new CIS and change out completely, or can I just pour my new
inks
> into the old bottles? I would also need to know which ink goes into which
> position. Is this info readily availability?
> Again, thanks for your generous help and time. Hope you had a great
> Thanksgiving.
> George J Kunze
>
>
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In a message dated 11/24/2001 1:37:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
paul.roark@... writes:

<< The MIS FS bottles are marked with a letter indicating the ink position.
  >>
Thanks for the reply.
George

In a message dated 11/24/2001 5:45:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
julianthomas@... writes:

<< George, I'm about to do the same as you and I'll be using a new cis. There
 are too many reasons to think that the greenies are caused by something in
 the cis interacting with the piezo inks.
  >>
Good point.
George