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QTR linearization PC/Eye1

QTR linearization PC/Eye1

2005-03-19 by caelin2

I've been searching the archives looking for answers to my questions 
and as yet haven't found anything I could grasp or that seemed 
relevant, mostly that I could grasp, I must tell everyone one up 
front that although not a complete novice a lot of this techno speak 
regarding QTR goes right over my head. To start you should probably 
know that I'm working on a PC,have an Eye 1 spectrophotometer, Epson 
7600, running UC inks with matte black, have downloaded and installed 
the latest versions of QTR and QTR gui. I'm trying to do the 
lineariztion using Tom Moores TutorialV1. After printing the Ink 
Patern Page his instructions say to measure (which ever way you like, 
hardware or by eye) the patches and determine where the ink density 
levels off and use this amount as an ink limit to create a new set of 
patches. The problem I'm running into is that every different ink 
step wedge levels off at a different point so I don't know what to 
use as a limit amount. Black actually is most dense at 55 (and 
actually gets lighter from 75 to 100!) , cyan at 95, magenta at 100, 
yellow at 80, light cyan at 100, light magenta at 90 and light black 
at 90. I've done nozzle checks and they're all good. I've printed the 
test wedges three times (all numbers are different for each one when 
I measure with the Eye 1 but a similar pattern emerges) and I've 
taken out and shaken the ink cartridges. The other thing that is 
making me scratch my head is that in his appendix 3 there's 
information about using the Eye 1 to calibrate the final 
linearization (I hope to get to this point someday :~) ) and it talks 
about four reference files, QTR-21-gray etc. I can't find these files 
anywhere nor can I find the four corresponding TIFF files for 
printing that are mentioned. I know that if I can get help for this 
it'll be here so, before I tear out the little remaining hair I have 
I'd sure like to hear some ideas. Thanks a heap in advance. Sorry 
this got so wordy but I've tried to anticipate questions about my 
circumstances and methodology.

Leon

Re: QTR linearization PC/Eye1

2005-03-20 by koloshor

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "caelin2" <caelin@i...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I've been searching the archives looking for answers to my questions 
> and as yet haven't found anything I could grasp or that seemed 
> relevant, mostly that I could grasp, I must tell everyone one up 
> front that although not a complete novice a lot of this techno speak 
> regarding QTR goes right over my head. To start you should probably 
> know that I'm working on a PC,have an Eye 1 spectrophotometer, Epson 
> 7600, running UC inks with matte black, have downloaded and installed 
> the latest versions of QTR and QTR gui. I'm trying to do the 
> lineariztion using Tom Moores TutorialV1. After printing the Ink 
> Patern Page his instructions say to measure (which ever way you like, 
> hardware or by eye) the patches and determine where the ink density 
> levels off and use this amount as an ink limit to create a new set of 
> patches. The problem I'm running into is that every different ink 
> step wedge levels off at a different point so I don't know what to 
> use as a limit amount. Black actually is most dense at 55 (and 
> actually gets lighter from 75 to 100!)

That's normal. Although it's getting denser, it's also getting shinier, so most spectrophotometers and densitometers read it as lighter. This is a "good thing". An instrument that uses polarized light will read the increasing density, but who cares: you're not viewing via polarized light.

> , cyan at 95, magenta at 100, 
> yellow at 80, light cyan at 100, light magenta at 90 and light black 
> at 90. I've done nozzle checks and they're all good.

That's normal, too. 

Go with the 55% from the dark black, on all channels. You won't use more C, M, LC, or LM than you use K to tone you cool colors. And you don't need that much light black, if you use high LK percentages, you'll get that midtone gloss that often screams "QTR" on gloss or luster paper (although going to 100% LK makes great digital negatives, but that's a topic for another day).

> I've printed the 
> test wedges three times (all numbers are different for each one when 
> I measure with the Eye 1 but a similar pattern emerges)

Remeasure after the prints have had a chance to cure. THey've probably had enough open air time alredy, so lay some plain paper over them for 48 hours and then remeasure.

You get used to profiling as a "pipeline". Your measuring always lags two days behind the printing, so you have a lot of jobs going on at the same time.

> and I've 
> taken out and shaken the ink cartridges. The other thing that is 
> making me scratch my head is that in his appendix 3 there's 
> information about using the Eye 1 to calibrate the final 
> linearization (I hope to get to this point someday :~) ) and it talks 
> about four reference files, QTR-21-gray etc. I can't find these files 
> anywhere nor can I find the four corresponding TIFF files for 
> printing that are mentioned. I know that if I can get help for this 
> it'll be here so, before I tear out the little remaining hair I have 
> I'd sure like to hear some ideas. Thanks a heap in advance. Sorry 
> this got so wordy but I've tried to anticipate questions about my 
> circumstances and methodology.

Those files were in the original (separate) beta distribution of the profiler, quadprofile025.zip, but I think they got left out of the "integrated" QTR 2.2 release.

They should be in the CurveDesign\Eye-One directory. The TIFF files are:
Step-21-gray.tif
Step-21-random.tif
Step-51-gray.tif
Step-51-random.tif

And the reference files are
QTR-21-gray.txt
QTR-21-random.txt
QTR-51-gray.txt
QTR-51.random.txt

Re: QTR linearization PC/Eye1

2005-03-20 by caelin2

This is great information, thanks. I'm wondering why you say to 
cover the printed pattern pages with plain paper and remeasure in 
two days? In case it makes any difference to this process they cured 
for 4 days before I measured them. As to finding the  missing file 
in CurveDesign\Eye-One directory I'm afraid I can't find that 
directory anywhere and need a little more information. Thanks for 
everything so far.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "koloshor" 
<wiz@n...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "caelin2" 
<caelin@i...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I've been searching the archives looking for answers to my 
questions 
> > and as yet haven't found anything I could grasp or that seemed 
> > relevant, mostly that I could grasp, I must tell everyone one up 
> > front that although not a complete novice a lot of this techno 
speak 
> > regarding QTR goes right over my head. To start you should 
probably 
> > know that I'm working on a PC,have an Eye 1 spectrophotometer, 
Epson 
> > 7600, running UC inks with matte black, have downloaded and 
installed 
> > the latest versions of QTR and QTR gui. I'm trying to do the 
> > lineariztion using Tom Moores TutorialV1. After printing the Ink 
> > Patern Page his instructions say to measure (which ever way you 
like, 
> > hardware or by eye) the patches and determine where the ink 
density 
> > levels off and use this amount as an ink limit to create a new 
set of 
> > patches. The problem I'm running into is that every different 
ink 
> > step wedge levels off at a different point so I don't know what 
to 
> > use as a limit amount. Black actually is most dense at 55 (and 
> > actually gets lighter from 75 to 100!)
> 
> That's normal. Although it's getting denser, it's also getting 
shinier, so most spectrophotometers and densitometers read it as 
lighter. This is a "good thing". An instrument that uses polarized 
light will read the increasing density, but who cares: you're not 
viewing via polarized light.
> 
> > , cyan at 95, magenta at 100, 
> > yellow at 80, light cyan at 100, light magenta at 90 and light 
black 
> > at 90. I've done nozzle checks and they're all good.
> 
> That's normal, too. 
> 
> Go with the 55% from the dark black, on all channels. You won't 
use more C, M, LC, or LM than you use K to tone you cool colors. And 
you don't need that much light black, if you use high LK 
percentages, you'll get that midtone gloss that often screams "QTR" 
on gloss or luster paper (although going to 100% LK makes great 
digital negatives, but that's a topic for another day).
> 
> > I've printed the 
> > test wedges three times (all numbers are different for each one 
when 
> > I measure with the Eye 1 but a similar pattern emerges)
> 
> Remeasure after the prints have had a chance to cure. THey've 
probably had enough open air time alredy, so lay some plain paper 
over them for 48 hours and then remeasure.
> 
> You get used to profiling as a "pipeline". Your measuring always 
lags two days behind the printing, so you have a lot of jobs going 
on at the same time.
> 
> > and I've 
> > taken out and shaken the ink cartridges. The other thing that is 
> > making me scratch my head is that in his appendix 3 there's 
> > information about using the Eye 1 to calibrate the final 
> > linearization (I hope to get to this point someday :~) ) and it 
talks 
> > about four reference files, QTR-21-gray etc. I can't find these 
files 
> > anywhere nor can I find the four corresponding TIFF files for 
> > printing that are mentioned. I know that if I can get help for 
this 
> > it'll be here so, before I tear out the little remaining hair I 
have 
> > I'd sure like to hear some ideas. Thanks a heap in advance. 
Sorry 
> > this got so wordy but I've tried to anticipate questions about 
my 
> > circumstances and methodology.
> 
> Those files were in the original (separate) beta distribution of 
the profiler, quadprofile025.zip, but I think they got left out of 
the "integrated" QTR 2.2 release.
> 
> They should be in the CurveDesign\Eye-One directory. The TIFF 
files are:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Step-21-gray.tif
> Step-21-random.tif
> Step-51-gray.tif
> Step-51-random.tif
> 
> And the reference files are
> QTR-21-gray.txt
> QTR-21-random.txt
> QTR-51-gray.txt
> QTR-51.random.txt

Re: QTR linearization PC/Eye1

2005-03-20 by dfaprinting

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "caelin2" 
<caelin@i...> wrote:
> 
> This is great information, thanks. I'm wondering why you say to 
> cover the printed pattern pages with plain paper and remeasure in 
> two days? In case it makes any difference to this process they 
cured 
> for 4 days before I measured them. As to finding the  missing file 
> in CurveDesign\Eye-One directory I'm afraid I can't find that 
> directory anywhere and need a little more information. Thanks for 
> everything so far.


It's missing from the latest download. I was going to upload it to 
the files area, but I find that I can not upload files there, maybe 
someone else will upload them.

Re: QTR linearization PC/Eye1

2005-03-20 by caelin2

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "caelin2" 
> <caelin@i...> wrote:
> > 
> > This is great information, thanks. I'm wondering why you say to 
> > cover the printed pattern pages with plain paper and remeasure in 
> > two days? In case it makes any difference to this process they 
> cured 
> > for 4 days before I measured them. As to finding the  missing 
file 
> > in CurveDesign\Eye-One directory I'm afraid I can't find that 
> > directory anywhere and need a little more information. Thanks for 
> > everything so far.
> 
> 
> It's missing from the latest download. I was going to upload it to 
> the files area, but I find that I can not upload files there, maybe 
> someone else will upload them.

Perhaps you could email them to me off list?

Re: QTR linearization PC/Eye1

2005-03-20 by koloshor

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "caelin2" <caelin@i...> wrote:
> 
> This is great information, thanks. I'm wondering why you say to 
> cover the printed pattern pages with plain paper and remeasure in 
> two days?

Weird thing about Epson inks. You can leave the prints out in the open for weeks, and they won't cure to the level of stability that they get in a few hours pressed against plain, chean, white office paper.

> In case it makes any difference to this process they cured 
> for 4 days before I measured them. As to finding the  missing file 
> in CurveDesign\Eye-One directory I'm afraid I can't find that 
> directory anywhere and need a little more information.

CYIB.

> Thanks for 
> everything so far.

You're welcome.

Re: QTR linearization PC/Eye1

2005-03-20 by Shilesh Jani

Hi there,

I too have been looking for these files.  Would you e-mail these test 
images and reference files.  Thank you.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "koloshor" 
<wiz@n...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "caelin2" 
<caelin@i...> wrote:
> > 
> > This is great information, thanks. I'm wondering why you say to 
> > cover the printed pattern pages with plain paper and remeasure in 
> > two days?
> 
> Weird thing about Epson inks. You can leave the prints out in the 
open for weeks, and they won't cure to the level of stability that 
they get in a few hours pressed against plain, chean, white office 
paper.
> 
> > In case it makes any difference to this process they cured 
> > for 4 days before I measured them. As to finding the  missing 
file 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > in CurveDesign\Eye-One directory I'm afraid I can't find that 
> > directory anywhere and need a little more information.
> 
> CYIB.
> 
> > Thanks for 
> > everything so far.
> 
> You're welcome.

Re: QTR linearization PC/Eye1

2005-03-20 by John Vitollo

> I too have been looking for these files.  Would you e-mail these test 
> images and reference files.  Thank you. 
> Shilesh

If you download the below link the files in there:

http://www.harrington.com/QuadToneRIP-2.0beta8.dmg.gz

I don't know if Windows can open a Mac .dmg file though?

Re: QTR linearization PC/Eye1

2005-03-20 by John Vitollo

> I too have been looking for these files.  Would you e-mail these test 
> images and reference files.  Thank you. 
> Shilesh

Shilesh,

I just emailed you the files.

Best,

John V.

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