Digital BW, The Print

Hi Paul,

> I have been printing cards (color mostly) and am wanting to explore the
> possibilities of more Black and White photo prints. I have an Epson 870 and
> am thinking of getting a 1280 to use some larger formats.
> Several questions:

> How can I sort out what enhancements Quadtone inks provide?

They provide black and white prints with no color crossover in the
shadows vs highlights like most color inks do.

 Can I use them
> easily in the Epson. 

Very easily.

How can I get a handle on the "curves"  that are mentioned?

Get the Curves for the 1280 printer from Paul Roark, at:  paul.roark@...

You use one of the five curves every time you print. They go from cold,
to cool, to neutral, to medium warm, to warm. You just load the curve
you wish to use before you print the picture and print.
Your image file must be made into an RGB image before you load the
curve. You can set up a short action to do this automatically.

> Are these other inks well tolerated on the Epson.

Yes, MIS Variable Hex tone black inks pose no problems with epson printers.

MIS also makes a full spectrum set of inks that are identical in tone to
the very warm, and very expensive piezo inks. 

Lyson also makes a lot of inks, but they have a lot of metamerism. (Look
magenta/purple under tungsten lights). also, Lyson inks as far as I know
are not available in bulk.

The piezo inks seem to have problems sometimes turning images green on
some papers. Most people, including me, have never had the problem, only
a few report it. I needed the cooler tones and the MUCH less expense of
the MIS ink system.  MIS inks are $12 to $16 per 4 ounce bottle, and the
Piezo inks are $80 per bottle. You also need to buy Piezo software. 

If you use Paul Roark's curves your print quality will be identical to
the Piezo prints.

Also, be sure you get a CIS system for the 4 ounce bottles of ink. You
don't want to be using the very expensive cartridges.

Jerry

> Many questions? Sorry
> Paul Redstone
> Sunderland, MA
> 
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Hi Jerry,
I'd like to jump into this thread because I too am about to get 
started. Since money is an object for me, I've decided to go with MIS 
rather than Piezo - I'm wondering though about my initial ink order - 
whether to go for the FS (full spectrum) or the VT (variable Tone) 
variety ? 
Any comments ?
I assume the appropriate curves are as good for either type of ink? 
And are the curves customised for particular papers ? If so which & 
are they also available from MIS? 
I would be aspiring to a traditional fibre base paper i.e. a smooth 
semi-gloss type of finish rather than a textures water colour 
surface. I have seen a print done on Epson Archival Matte and found 
the paper surface to be a bit "dead" - on the other hand I dislike 
the super gloss that you get on traditional RC glossy prints - any 
comments ?
thanks for your time
Frank




> You use one of the five curves every time you print. They go from 
cold,
> to cool, to neutral, to medium warm, to warm. You just load the 
curve
> you wish to use before you print the picture and print.

> MIS also makes a full spectrum set of inks that are identical in 
tone to
> the very warm, and very expensive piezo inks. 
> 
 If you use Paul Roark's curves your print quality will be identical 
to
> the Piezo prints.
> 
> Also, be sure you get a CIS system for the 4 ounce bottles of ink. 
You

> don't want to be using the very expensive cartridges.
> 
> Jerry
>

on 11/26/01 4:49 PM, fh.gross@... wrote:

> I would be aspiring to a traditional fibre base paper i.e. a smooth
> semi-gloss type of finish rather than a textures water colour
> surface. I have seen a print done on Epson Archival Matte and found
> the paper surface to be a bit "dead" - on the other hand I dislike
> the super gloss that you get on traditional RC glossy prints - any
> comments ?

Many of us come to this as you do. Sadly pigment inks don't do well on
glossyish papers (not even those that resemble a nice air dried fiber based
print, if you could even find such an inkjet paper). You will not be able to
match the luminance range of a glossy fiber print without "coating" your
print, which is a topic and endeavor all its own.

However, over time you might discover like many of us have, that what you do
get is lovely unto itself, and in many ways preferable to silver prints, in
spite of it's shortcomings. I still have many images that just need fiber
prints, but for the vast majority of my images there is no going back. Matte
Inkjets prints do it better. My matte inkjet prints are far more luminous
than my matte silver prints are, they are *between* matte and glossy fiber
prints.

My advice is not to go into this as a way of replacing silver prints, but of
adding to your printmaking arsenal. However, over time your aesthetics may
change, and you might just find that you no longer desire that glossy full
toned look anymore.

Todd

Bill,

Choice of printers is somewhat driven by your choice of ink set and
available software workflow. At least for the quads.

Switching inks on a printer can be a pain so try to dedicate a B&W printer.

If you want to put your toe in the water with the quad inks, try a 1280 and
see how you like it. The 3000 does have its feeding problems.

Does Adobe Photoshop really utilize dual CPU's? I assume you are using a
Win2000 or XP OS? Find out before you buy the box.

After silver printing for several decades it has taken me about 14 months to
get my Photoshop/inkjet printing skills to a level where I feel I am happy
with the results. But I am very picky.

Let us know how it goes.

Martin Wesley

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Giffen" <wagge@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 9:09 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Getting started


> Just got back from PMA, and while there was only a small percent of B&W ,
> what I did see I liked. Now to get started and make some prints. I have
> several questions
> 1. I have funds for a 7000 printer but I could start on a 3000 and migrate
> up. I also wanted a 7500 for color work, I would really like the 10000 but
I
> do not think I can justify the need. I have about 10k or so to spend on my
> printing setup. What would experienced printers recommend. I also plan on
> money for supplies
> 2. I have 5 computers on my network, and I am installing a dual Amd 1900
> machine for Photoshop. Should I setup one of the other 5 as a print server
> or just use my dual machine?
> 3. Any other thoughts as I get started.
>
> Oh, my work will be commisioned pictures, I have one client who wants 4 or
5
> pictures for his study of him duck hunting with his dogs. I quoted him 750
> ea framed 16x20s
>
> I have several other clients that need specific shots like the one above.
>
> How long will it take to produce quality work ( assuming I have a good
file
> to start with) 1- month, 6- months
>
> Thanks for any help.
> Bill Giffen
> HOuston Texas
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

On 3/2/02 1:08 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:

> Does Adobe Photoshop really utilize dual CPU's? I assume you are using a
> Win2000 or XP OS? Find out before you buy the box.


It does on the Mac OS...

Lawrence

----------------------------------
Lawrence W. Smith Photography
http://www.lwsphoto.com
lsmith@...
----------------------------------

> > Does Adobe Photoshop really utilize dual CPU's? I assume you are
> > using a Win2000 or XP OS? Find out before you buy the box.
> 
> 
> It does on the Mac OS...

Not necessarily!  - The key issue to remember with multi threading 
(multiple CPU systems) is that there are three things that must ALL 
work before you gain any benefit from the 2nd or 3rd.... cpu.

1) the OS must be multi thread compliant (not all versions are)
(for Winx systems it must be NT4 or Win2k or XP - I believe for 
Apple it must be OSX) Remember Apple just released their very first 
dual system a few months ago.

2) the specifi software application must also be multi aware

3) the specific plug-ins that run within that app must also be multi 
aware.

If ANY one of these three fail, then only one processor works. So, to 
make a blanket statement that yes, it is multi, is not 100% true. If 
you watch the CPU utilization graph as the application is running, 
you will commonly see the second CPU kick in and out. Run an 
action or automated process that uses many different filters, etc. 
and you will see this happen. You will also see that some filters, etc 
are MORE aware than others. IE: some will only use a little of the 
second CPU while others will use it 100%. 

The other issue with multi CPU systems is one of  bus width. It's 
quite easy with today's GHZ plus processors to exceed the max data 
rate the the bus can handle. Therefore CPU speed bogs down while 
waiting for the bus to handle the amount of data they are trying to 
feed through it.

The last issue to consider  is the law of diminishing returns here. 
Adding a second CPU will NOT give you double speed. You will only 
see about a 70% or so gain. This seems to be the biggest 
disappointment factor for those with new dual systems.

BTW: this is true for BOTH Windows and Apple systems. 

Greg

> Remember Apple just released their very first 
> dual system a few months ago.

This is false. Apple's first multiprocesser G4 systems were released
nearly two years ago. Many years before that there were multiproc
PowerMac clones using PPC 604 chips.
 
Until OS X, mac systems could only handle Asymmetric Multiprocessing,
which was less efficient than the Symmetric MP that OS X and the newer
Windows systems offer, but still allowed significant speed
improvements under MP-aware applications such as Photoshop. (Only
certain operations under Photoshop benefit from multiprocessing.)