Digital BW, The Print

From what I've been reading, a lot of people in this forum using the 
QTR software use the Lab-to-grayscale method in PS to convert their 
images to monochrome. Is this method suggested when using the QTR?
I only ask because I never use that method, instead I use Petteri 
Sulonen's (black & white negative with tonal controls)

http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/n_Digital_BW/a_Digital_Black_
and_White.html

So by the time I get my image into the QTRgui, it's pretty much where 
I want to be. 

Does my method of monochrome conversion create limitations?

They are not using it to convert to monochrome.  Rather they are using it as
their monochrome workspace and then using perceptual rendering to convert
their B&W document from their workspace to their relevant print space.  You
are still missing the last valuable step.

> From: Steve <blizzie12@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:02:53 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Conversion to Greyscale Methods
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've been reading, a lot of people in this forum using the
> QTR software use the Lab-to-grayscale method in PS to convert their
> images to monochrome. Is this method suggested when using the QTR?
> I only ask because I never use that method, instead I use Petteri
> Sulonen's (black & white negative with tonal controls)
> 
> http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/n_Digital_BW/a_Digital_Black_
> and_White.html
> 
> So by the time I get my image into the QTRgui, it's pretty much where
> I want to be. 
> 
> Does my method of monochrome conversion create limitations?
>

As Stephen Kale said, what you use as your method of conversion to B&W
will not matter to QTR.  You need to use the method of conversion that
gives you the monochrome image that you want.  

Likewise, it matters not whether or not you use the "QTR-Gray Lab"
space as your working space when you edit the image.

What matters to QTR is the space you convert the image to before
sending the image to QTR for printing.  You should use "QTR - Gray
Matte Paper" (or "QTR - Gray Photo Paper").

What I'd like is a clearer explanation of the steps that Petteri
Sulonen is using in his "printing" phase:
 
http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/n_Digital_BW/a_Digital_Black_and_White.html?page=4

He doesn't explain the purpose of each of the layers.  I assume that
the tint layer is fairly useless if you're going to print using QTR.

F_P


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve"
<blizzie12@y...> wrote:

> 
> From what I've been reading, a lot of people in this forum using the 
> QTR software use the Lab-to-grayscale method in PS to convert their 
> images to monochrome. Is this method suggested when using the QTR?
> I only ask because I never use that method, instead I use Petteri 
> Sulonen's (black & white negative with tonal controls)
> 
> http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/n_Digital_BW/a_Digital_Black_
> and_White.html
> 
> So by the time I get my image into the QTRgui, it's pretty much where 
> I want to be. 
> 
> Does my method of monochrome conversion create limitations?

I believe what Steve/Blizzie is referring to is the common practice 
of changing first from RGB to Lab mode, and selecting only the 
Lightness channel, eliminating the other two channels, and then 
changing mode to grayscale mode, as a method of "converting" to b/w.

Another answer to this question might be:

No, Steve, it does not matter what method you use to convert to 
monochrome. Use whatever works best for you. However, you will need 
to "convert" again (as a final step) to the QTR print space, i.e., 
QTR gray matte, etc. just prior to printing via QTR.

Hope that helps,

Jeff
http://pbase.com/k2kv



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> They are not using it to convert to monochrome.  Rather they are 
using it as
> their monochrome workspace and then using perceptual rendering to 
convert
> their B&W document from their workspace to their relevant print 
space.  You
> are still missing the last valuable step.
> 
> 
> > From: Steve <blizzie12@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:02:53 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Conversion to Greyscale Methods
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > From what I've been reading, a lot of people in this forum using 
the
> > QTR software use the Lab-to-grayscale method in PS to convert 
their
> > images to monochrome. Is this method suggested when using the 
QTR?
> > I only ask because I never use that method, instead I use Petteri
> > Sulonen's (black & white negative with tonal controls)
> > 
> > 
http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/n_Digital_BW/a_Digital_Blac
k_
> > and_White.html
> > 
> > So by the time I get my image into the QTRgui, it's pretty much 
where

> > I want to be. 
> > 
> > Does my method of monochrome conversion create limitations?
> >

This conversion to QTR gray matte, is that done in PS? or in the 
QTRgui?
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "k2kv" 
<js@r...> wrote:
> 
> I believe what Steve/Blizzie is referring to is the common 
practice 
> of changing first from RGB to Lab mode, and selecting only the 
> Lightness channel, eliminating the other two channels, and then 
> changing mode to grayscale mode, as a method of "converting" to 
b/w.
> 
> Another answer to this question might be:
> 
> No, Steve, it does not matter what method you use to convert to 
> monochrome. Use whatever works best for you. However, you will 
need 
> to "convert" again (as a final step) to the QTR print space, i.e., 
> QTR gray matte, etc. just prior to printing via QTR.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> 
> Jeff
> http://pbase.com/k2kv
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> > They are not using it to convert to monochrome.  Rather they are 
> using it as
> > their monochrome workspace and then using perceptual rendering 
to 
> convert
> > their B&W document from their workspace to their relevant print 
> space.  You
> > are still missing the last valuable step.
> > 
> > 
> > > From: Steve <blizzie12@y...>
> > > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:02:53 -0000
> > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] Conversion to Greyscale Methods
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From what I've been reading, a lot of people in this forum 
using 
> the
> > > QTR software use the Lab-to-grayscale method in PS to convert 
> their
> > > images to monochrome. Is this method suggested when using the 
> QTR?
> > > I only ask because I never use that method, instead I use 
Petteri
> > > Sulonen's (black & white negative with tonal controls)
> > > 
> > > 
> 
http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/How_to/n_Digital_BW/a_Digital_Blac
> k_
> > > and_White.html
> > > 
> > > So by the time I get my image into the QTRgui, it's pretty 
much 

> where
> > > I want to be. 
> > > 
> > > Does my method of monochrome conversion create limitations?
> > >

In PS.  Save your master.  Then do a conversion to the print space (matte or
photo) using perceptual rendering and save as a "print file".  Open this
print file in QTRgui and print.

> From: Steve <blizzie12@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 22:52:08 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Conversion to Greyscale Methods
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This conversion to QTR gray matte, is that done in PS? or in the
> QTRgui?

When converting to the print space (i.e.QTR grey matte)in PS, must I 
flatten the file? When I try to convert, I'm going to lose 
adjustments layers as the conversion automatically does that.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> In PS.  Save your master.  Then do a conversion to the print space 
(matte or
> photo) using perceptual rendering and save as a "print file".  
Open this

> print file in QTRgui and print.
> 
> 
> > From: Steve <blizzie12@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 22:52:08 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Conversion to Greyscale Methods
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > This conversion to QTR gray matte, is that done in PS? or in the
> > QTRgui?

As I said, save a "master" before you do this final conversion - it is just
a "print" file.  You might want to print to matte paper one day and photo
paper the next.  Always make sure you have that (unflattened if you want to
keep a record of the layers) master to go back to.

> From: Steve <blizzie12@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 23:15:19 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Conversion to Greyscale Methods
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When converting to the print space (i.e.QTR grey matte)in PS, must I
> flatten the file? When I try to convert, I'm going to lose
> adjustments layers as the conversion automatically does that.
>

Suppose I want to print to gloss or luster paper, which QTR profile 
do I use to convert? In my PS "convert to profile" list, I have QTR 
Gray Lab, QTR Gray Matte and QTR Gray Paper. Are there any profiles 
for gloss or luster?
 
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> As I said, save a "master" before you do this final conversion - 
it is just
> a "print" file.  You might want to print to matte paper one day 
and photo
> paper the next.  Always make sure you have that (unflattened if 
you want to
> keep a record of the layers) master to go back to.
> 
> 
> > From: Steve <blizzie12@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 23:15:19 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Conversion to Greyscale Methods
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > When converting to the print space (i.e.QTR grey matte)in PS, 
must I

> > flatten the file? When I try to convert, I'm going to lose
> > adjustments layers as the conversion automatically does that.
> >

Steve,

Just save your file as a .tif file, and select to keep your layers. No 
need to lose all that work!

Jeff


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" 
<blizzie12@y...> wrote:

> 
> 
> When converting to the print space (i.e.QTR grey matte)in PS, must I 
> flatten the file? When I try to convert, I'm going to lose 
> adjustments layers as the conversion automatically does that.
> 
> --- 
> >

Gray Lab is a workspace.  Gray Matte is a generic print space for all matte
papers.  Gray Photo is a generic print space for all "photo" papers
(including gloss and luster).

> From: Steve <blizzie12@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 02:03:01 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Conversion to Greyscale Methods
> 
> 
> 
> Suppose I want to print to gloss or luster paper, which QTR profile
> do I use to convert? In my PS "convert to profile" list, I have QTR
> Gray Lab, QTR Gray Matte and QTR Gray Paper. Are there any profiles
> for gloss or luster?
>  
>

Steve, just like printing color with the 2200 and using photo black for everything non-matte and matte black for everything matte, you choose the gray-photo profile for glossy, luster, semi, and the gray-matte for all the matte prints

Diane

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 10:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Conversion to Greyscale Methods



  Suppose I want to print to gloss or luster paper, which QTR profile 
  do I use to convert? In my PS "convert to profile" list, I have QTR 
  Gray Lab, QTR Gray Matte and QTR Gray Paper. Are there any profiles 
  for gloss or luster?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]