Digital BW, The Print

Is there any reason why bulk K3 inks -- or, more accurately, a 7-color
inkset that incorporates the advances of the K3 set -- could not be
used in a 2200? If I were MIS, I'd be trying to create the equivalent
of k3 clones and marketing them to all the owners of Epson's "older"
pigment printers.

Chris Hargens

You said it! Come on MIS lets go for it! ( hopefully they are, along with Media 
Street )


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Hargens" <
chargens@s...> wrote:

> Is there any reason why bulk K3 inks -- or, more accurately, a 7-color
> inkset that incorporates the advances of the K3 set -- could not be
> used in a 2200? If I were MIS, I'd be trying to create the equivalent
> of k3 clones and marketing them to all the owners of Epson's "older"
> pigment printers.
> 
> Chris Hargens

If I were MIS I would be trying to invent a new ink set that is better than
the K3s....

> From: Chris Hargens <chargens@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:19:24 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] New Epsons & 3rd party inks
> 
> Is there any reason why bulk K3 inks -- or, more accurately, a 7-color
> inkset that incorporates the advances of the K3 set -- could not be
> used in a 2200? If I were MIS, I'd be trying to create the equivalent
> of k3 clones and marketing them to all the owners of Epson's "older"
> pigment printers.
> 
> Chris Hargens

That's right. The K3's are old technology, time for something new and better.

john



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <
stevekale@b...> wrote:

> If I were MIS I would be trying to invent a new ink set that is better than
> the K3s....
> 
>

Gee you guys are fast.

On May 17, 2005, at 11:07 AM, john dean wrote:

> That's right. The K3's are old technology, time for something new  
> and better.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The "better" ink may already exist for the 2200 -- UT7.

If I only want a B&W printer, then the 2400 with the magenta replaced by
R800 blue clone ink may be a possibility.  That would give me the ability to
profile the papers better along the green-magenta axis and also probably be
more lightfast.  This could be done even with the Epson driver.   

I suspect the first thing MIS should do is just be sure it has a clone
inkset for the K3.  I suspect this means simply having an LLK -- which ought
to take me about 15 minutes after I get a sample of Epson's LLK.  I suspect,
however, MIS's supplier will have the LLK done before most of us have a
printer or sample inks.

After that, the question may be whether there is enough demand for a
dedicated B&W inkset for the 2400 to bother with it.  For the large format
printers, setting up an inkset that can print glossy and matte without
changing the inks may be worth the effort.  As such, the 2400 may be simply
a test bed for that effort.  

I think it'll take QTR or IJC along with a dedicated inkset to do the glossy
or matte B&W printing system I have in mind.  With the Epson driver I won't
be able to lay down the LK and LLK while at the same time controlling the M
& C with curves.  So, a first step to such an inkset is for Roy or Joe to
get control of the individual inks.  Once that happens, then a superior B&W
inkset is very possible.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

>If I were MIS I would be trying to invent a new ink set that is 
>better than the K3s....

> 
> You said it! Come on MIS lets go for it! 
>



> > Is there any reason why bulk K3 inks -- or, more accurately, a 7-color
> > inkset that incorporates the advances of the K3 set -- could not be
> > used in a 2200? If I were MIS, I'd be trying to create the equivalent
> > of k3 clones and marketing them to all the owners of Epson's "older"
> > pigment printers.
> >

Everyone calls for clones...how about some real competition for the Jones
instead of just trying to keep up... ;-)

> From: Mark Savoia <mark@...>

> 
> Gee you guys are fast.
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> If I were MIS I would be trying to invent a new ink set that is 
better than
> the K3s....
> 

It's already out, but takes a little work to use it. The only thing 
lacking at this point is the light light black, and maybe some dmax 
with the photo black. I've been using it for a little while now with my 
9500. Gamuts are big like the R1800, and HP130. It's made by Image 
Specialists, and sold through MIS (you have to call and ask) and WeInk 
(Chromium Pro), I'm sure there are others. The magenta is nearly red, 
and the cyan is nearly blue (but the light colors are just strong). The 
reds are fantastic, as are the yellows. I've been posting info about 
this ink at DPReview on and off as I get time to play with it. You will 
need a RIP, and that RIP must have user adjustable ink limits for the 
CMY&K channels, as well as RG&B mixes. One that allows control of the C-
LC mixing, M-LM mixing, and K-LK mixing would be helpfull.

I wouldn't be an excited buyer of MIS UCs with just the additional LLK.  QTR
arguably does a good enough job without it. The real gain, if any, (and what
I am excited about) with the K3 inks is the removal of the bronzing and
differential gloss issues not the addition of LLK.  So MIS needs to do as
well as or better on the actual ink construction before they worry about
another shade.  If they can achieve that then I think there would be a lot
of excited 21/2200/4800...users keen to run an improved 7 ink system.  To
MIS: forget the extra shade for now and focus in on bronzing, gloss/surface
reflection, dMax.  By their own admission they still haven't matched the
suspension technology of the R800/R1800 inks.

I ordered a 4800 today and expect it in the first week of June.  Not for the
LLK per se but for the better properties of the existing inks (in addition
to wanting a larger, more precisely tuned printer).  If I had a 4000 already
I would be salivating at the chance of running the K3 ink through it.  I
just wish Epson would make available "K3 less LLK" ink available in 21/2200
carts.

> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:07:36 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: New Epsons & 3rd party inks
> 
> 
> The "better" ink may already exist for the 2200 -- UT7.
> 
> If I only want a B&W printer, then the 2400 with the magenta replaced by
> R800 blue clone ink may be a possibility.  That would give me the ability to
> profile the papers better along the green-magenta axis and also probably be
> more lightfast.  This could be done even with the Epson driver.
> 
> I suspect the first thing MIS should do is just be sure it has a clone
> inkset for the K3.  I suspect this means simply having an LLK -- which ought
> to take me about 15 minutes after I get a sample of Epson's LLK.  I suspect,
> however, MIS's supplier will have the LLK done before most of us have a
> printer or sample inks.
> 
> After that, the question may be whether there is enough demand for a
> dedicated B&W inkset for the 2400 to bother with it.  For the large format
> printers, setting up an inkset that can print glossy and matte without
> changing the inks may be worth the effort.  As such, the 2400 may be simply
> a test bed for that effort.
> 
> I think it'll take QTR or IJC along with a dedicated inkset to do the glossy
> or matte B&W printing system I have in mind.  With the Epson driver I won't
> be able to lay down the LK and LLK while at the same time controlling the M
> & C with curves.  So, a first step to such an inkset is for Roy or Joe to
> get control of the individual inks.  Once that happens, then a superior B&W
> inkset is very possible.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

21/2200/4000...  (not 4800) and I guess 7600 and 9600 users

> From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>


>If they can achieve that then I think there would be a lot
> of excited 21/2200/4800...users keen to run an improved 7 ink system.