Digital BW, The Print

Hello everyone, I have been reading your many interesting posts over
the past few days since joining and wanted to introduce myself and
ask a question. I am
a darkroom user at present but am looking into getting more into
digital black and whire
printing. I use 35mm and medium format equipment, Ilford paper and
chemistry and work 
outof a homebuilt darkroom making medium sized prints  generally on
fiber based cool
toned paper. I also have a decent digital camera, which I actually
purchased to shoot 
copies of my silver prints. I am about halfway through getting an MA
in photography and
the only person in the program still using a darkroom.

I have been less than happy with the results I have seen from the
Epson 2200 and larger printers which have been used in the
department, with the 
standardinks, to make black and white prints. These prints tend to
have limited tonal 
range andabrupt tonal transitions, not to mention metamerism, and so
I have not been
inspired to move in a digital direction until I found the Piezo
website, and the MIS site,
read the many testimonials, and was led to this group.

My current concern /observation, having bought a few samples of
prints using Piezo and MIS inks, has to do with the surface fragility
of the prints. Very
little handling, touching of the surface for example, damages the
surface of these prints. If
touched, there is a patina, a shiney mottled surface that results, as
if the ink has a soft
surface that becomes flattened. The ink doesn't come off but the
surface change is very
noticable. Light pressure can make a dull line in the surface as
well, as several prints I
ordered( the Piezo ones primarily) were affected by pressure from
postal handling, even
though they were protected.

 I think that the term archival has to do with more than
lightfastness or color stability,but 
also implies some ability to withstand handling. Silver prints
arevery sturdy and can be 
handled quite a bit without damage. I read a few posts
regardingprotecting the surface of 
prints in books with overleaf pages so imy impression is that this
issue is unfortunately 
ubiquitous where inket prints are concerned (at least ones made on
matte surfaces). 

 I appreciate the flow of information and the very evident love of
fine prints displayed by 
the members of this group and appreciate any comments regarding the
above.

Grant Fergeson

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "saldelrey"
<gfergeson@s...> wrote:
> ...Very
> little handling, touching of the surface for example, damages the
> surface of these prints.

Never touch the surface of a fine piece of art on paper. As
photographers we've come to assume that can be done. Others wouldn't
do that with anything else, and now we can't either.
Yes, they are delicate, but careful handling solves the issue.
Tyler

Grant,

>... I am about halfway through getting an MA
> in photography and
> the only person in the program still using a darkroom.

A sign of the times, I guess.  Too bad.

> ...
> My current concern /observation, having bought a few samples of
> prints using Piezo and MIS inks, has to do with the surface fragility
> of the prints. Very
> little handling, touching of the surface for example, damages the
> surface of these prints. If
> touched, there is a patina, a shiney mottled surface that results, as
> if the ink has a soft surface that becomes flattened...

True.  I think abrasion is one of the major issues facing pigments.  They
sit on top of the paper and are easily knocked off.

There may be a relationship between dmax and sensitivity to this.  I wonder
if the highest dmax papers like PhotoRag have the pigments more on top of
the paper than those papers with more apparent abrasion resistance like
Epson UltraSmooth/PremierArt Hot Press, which have a lower dmax, perhaps due
to the pigs being more down into the surface.

At any rate, there are differences between papers.

Like with pastels, a fixative helps.  All have some impact on the image, but
the one I use for matte paper is Lascaux Fixativ.  It lowers the dmax the
least.  I think the safest matte paper combination I use is UltraSmooth
(Premier Art Hot Press) with a light spray of Lascaux.

I like the "gloss" papers in part because of this problem.  With Epson
Premium Semimatte, as with others, a spray with PremierArt Print Shield not
only protects the print but also increases the dmax and eliminates the
digital artifacts.  (I use 4 coats applied quickly in a single session, with
a hair drier between coats.)

I think the answer is to encapsulate the pigments so that they are
protected.

> 
>  Silver prints .. can be handled quite a bit without damage. 

The silver is embedded in the emulsion -- it is encapsulated.

But, with the silver print the gelatin is relatively porous.  Hardening
helps, but I still don't think you'd want to clean the surface with a damp
rag.  With the Print Shield coating, a Premium Semimatte print can be
cleaned with a damp paper towel.  It is tough enough that I am starting to
display them without glass. 

In time, I think we'll see better coatings that will protect the pigments
better not only from physical damage but also from UV and, ultimately,
oxygen.  

With a coating that is applied after the printing, much tougher, less porous
surfaces are possible that if that surface has to be penetrated by
processing chemicals or dyes, as with the swellable surfaces the dye inkjet
papers are starting to use.  So, while it takes an extra step, for the best
final results, that may be what it takes.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul Roark wrote:

>
>I like the "gloss" papers in part because of this problem.  With Epson
>Premium Semimatte, as with others, a spray with PremierArt Print Shield not
>only protects the print but also increases the dmax and eliminates the
>digital artifacts.  (I use 4 coats applied quickly in a single session, with
>a hair drier between coats.)
>  
>
Paul,

Could you expand on this a little? How far do you depress the spray 
button? (I know, that's hard to quantify.) I've been pressing just 
enough to get a decent spray, but occasionally there are dips in the 
output. How long to you dry with the hair dryer between coats? Doesn't 
the hair dryer lead to getting dust in the finish?

-Peter

> Paul Roark wrote:

> >I like the "gloss" papers in part because of this problem.  
>>With Epson Premium Semimatte, as with others, a spray with 
>>PremierArt Print Shield not only protects the print but also 
>>increases the dmax and eliminates the digital artifacts.  
>>(I use 4 coats applied quickly in a single session, with
>>a hair drier between coats.)
> >


Peter wrote:
> 
> Could you expand on this a little? How far do you depress the spray
> button? (I know, that's hard to quantify.) I've been pressing just
> enough to get a decent spray, but occasionally there are dips in the
> output.

I fully depress the button.  I think the stronger the spray, the better
atomized the solution is.  I start the spray outside the print area to avoid
any unpleasant initial clumps.

> How long to you dry with the hair dryer between coats? 

It's not very scientific.  I usually spray while holding my breath and
immediately hit the print with a bit or drier air, or I step outside my open
garage and catch few breathes before the drying.  So, the only delays in the
process are the 30 - 60 seconds or so that I'm out breathing.  (I do wear
goggles while spraying.)

>Doesn't the hair dryer lead to getting dust in the finish?

I have not had that problem.  I run it a while before using in on the print
to be sure any loose dust has blown out of it.  The drier I use is not also
used in the bathroom for hair, where towel lint may tend to accumulate on
the drier.

Having the print hanging vertically on a line, with a weight at the bottom
to hold it steady, seems to help avoid settling dust.  Also, one reason I
like the solvent based sprays is that they dry so fast there is less time
for dust to get into the emulsion.

I do try to inspect the print after the first spray to see if there is any
dust that needs removing.

It's not a perfect process, but it seems to be working reasonably well.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

Regarding:

>I fully depress the button.  I think the stronger the spray, the better
>atomized the solution is.  I start the spray outside the print area to avoid
>any unpleasant initial clumps.
>
Ok, so you must move the can across the print fairly quickly, right? I 
think that you're right about the better atomization at a full spray.

>Having the print hanging vertically on a line, with a weight at the bottom
>to hold it steady, seems to help avoid settling dust. 
>
I'd been spraying the prints on a flat surface.  I'll try hanging them 
vertically.

So far I've been spraying the print on my screened-in front porch. (My 
garage is out, as it's really my woodworking shop.) I've been using my 
3m full face respirator with the standard activated charcoal filters.  I 
don't smell a thing when spraying.

Thanks for the advice,
Peter