Digital BW, The Print

Another "which printer to buy?" posting.  I am quite new to the world 
of digital photography, though I have been a traditional wet darkroom 
photographer for more than a quarter century.  I have a large stock 
of 4X5 and 6X9 black and white negatives, (as well as a reasonable 
quantity of 35 mm color slides) with which I am entering the digital 
realm. Over the last several months I have been learning Photoshop 
and amassing the equipment for this foray  ---most all of it used, or 
refurbished.  This includes my first Mac, an upgraded G4 PCI 
Graphics, and a 23" HD Cinema Screen and an Imacon 646 Scanner.  The 
lastest link was an Epson Stylus Pro 7600 Ultra chrome printer which 
I bought used, and after an initial expensive visit from an Epson 
Service Rep, and a full week of work doing Black Only printing with 
MIS Eboni (enough to get me really excited about the implications of 
this new technology for my photography---what I experienced was a 
real eye opener…) something critical broke on the carriage, and it 
appears that the printer may be a total loss.  (Taking risks bears a 
price at times.)  I should add that ultimately my interest lies in 
the potential of the digital negative for contact printing processes -
--though I am becoming fascinated with the prospect of the "inkjet 
print".  In other words, I need to be able to shift back and fourth 
from black and white to color on the same machine.   So, my question 
is, with a whole new generation of Epson wide format printers on the 
horizon, should I invest in the existing lines (another 7600 or a 
4000) or wait to invest in the new lines pending? Those of you who 
have been doing this long enough to see the technology evolve and to 
perceive trends especially in the Epson printers are the ones whom I 
most hope to hear from.  Thanks, Nathan Jones

Hello Nathan,

Welcome to the forum.

>I should add that ultimately my interest lies in 
>the potential of the digital negative for contact 
>printing processes -

>I need to be able to shift back and fourth from black and white 
>to color on the same machine...should I invest in the existing 
>lines (another 7600 or a 4000) or wait to invest in the new lines 
>pending? 

My observations over time have been twofold:
1) reality often fails to live up to pre-product hype 
2) one man's glory is another man's disappointment

Since mistakes in this realm can be expensive, as you have learned, I
suggest waiting a few months until reports come in from actual B&W
fine art practitioners - all we've had so far is Epson hype and
reports from folks who don't specialize in what we do.

More specifically to your question, doing color and BW eliminates use
of a dedicated BW ink set.  That means using either a RIP (none
available yet for the new printers) or using straight printer output.
 Reports re BW from the new K3 printers seem promising, but until I
see actual prints or hear reports from respected folks in this forum
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Re making digital negs, the reports from people doing it seem to
indicate that the biggest challenge is avoiding the microbanding,
which seems to vary from one printer to another and is devilishly hard
to eliminate completely.

Regards,
Clayton 


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@c...> wrote:
> Hello Nathan,
> 
> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> >I should add that ultimately my interest lies in 
> >the potential of the digital negative for contact 
> >printing processes -
> 
> >I need to be able to shift back and fourth from black and white 
> >to color on the same machine...should I invest in the existing 
> >lines (another 7600 or a 4000) or wait to invest in the new lines 
> >pending? 
> 
> My observations over time have been twofold:
> 1) reality often fails to live up to pre-product hype 
> 2) one man's glory is another man's disappointment
> 
> Since mistakes in this realm can be expensive, as you have learned, 
I
> suggest waiting a few months until reports come in from actual B&W
> fine art practitioners - all we've had so far is Epson hype and
> reports from folks who don't specialize in what we do.
> 
> More specifically to your question, doing color and BW eliminates 
use
> of a dedicated BW ink set.  That means using either a RIP (none
> available yet for the new printers) or using straight printer 
output.
>  Reports re BW from the new K3 printers seem promising, but until I
> see actual prints or hear reports from respected folks in this forum
> I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
> 
> Re making digital negs, the reports from people doing it seem to
> indicate that the biggest challenge is avoiding the microbanding,
> which seems to vary from one printer to another and is devilishly 
hard
> to eliminate completely.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton 
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Thank you kindly Clayton for the suggestion.  I think I'll start 
searching for another Epson 7600 ---this time with a warranty.  It is 
a machine that seems tried and true.  After just one week of waiting, 
I can hardly stand the thought of waiting months.  I want to get back 
to work.  Any suggestions in how to avoid a machine with micro 
banding? Any particular models that seem less inclined to this malady 
than others?

Incidentally, I have been doing alot of reading and research on the 
digital process for fine art photography.  Your writings have been 
among the most helpful and important to my getting started.  I thank 
you for your generosity in sharing your expertise so openly. 

-Nathan

Hello Nathan,

>Thank you kindly Clayton for the suggestion.  I think I'll start 
>searching for another Epson 7600 ---this time with a warranty.  
>It is a machine that seems tried and true.  After just one week 
>of waiting, I can hardly stand the thought of waiting months.  

Understood, but think about this ("months" might have been to big a
word) - In a relatively short time (a week or two?) the new printers
will be shipping and there probably will be lots of 7600s for sale at
good prices from folks upgrading to the 7800, so by waiting a bit
longer a better deal could be found.  But, if you are willing to wait
that long, a bit more time will probably produce some real feedback on
the 7800 BW quality - you'd be kicking yourself if the 7800 turns out
to be BW nirvana and you just bought a 7600.   Just food for thought.


>Any suggestions in how to avoid a machine with micro banding? 
>Any particular models that seem less inclined to this malady 
>than others?

Best I can tell from reading this forum, it seems to vary from one to
another.  I sold an 870 once to someone who had one and wanted
another.  He said mine was smoother than his.  Reports about 1280s
have been all over the map re clogging and banding.   Re the new K3
printers, Epson did say something to the effect that the 17" and
larger models will have tighter testing/alignment standards than the
smaller models, so that may be in your favor (can anyone fill in here
with some details?).

 
>Incidentally, I have been doing alot of reading and research on 
>the digital process for fine art photography.  Your writings have 
>been among the most helpful and important to my getting started.  
>I thank you for your generosity in sharing your expertise so openly. 

You're welcome, and thanks for the kind remarks.  Good luck in your
printer quest, let us know what happens.  


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

OK Clayton:

That makes good sense.  I'll reign in the horses and pin my eye to 
the new prospect.  I'll be watching closely. (In the meantime, I am 
going to dive into the "trashed" old 7600 myself to see what I can do 
to fix it. I have some ideas. I'll keep you posted.) Thanks again. 
Keep up the good work.
---Nathan 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@c...> wrote:
> Hello Nathan,
> 
> >Thank you kindly Clayton for the suggestion.  I think I'll start 
> >searching for another Epson 7600 ---this time with a warranty.  
> >It is a machine that seems tried and true.  After just one week 
> >of waiting, I can hardly stand the thought of waiting months.  
> 
> Understood, but think about this ("months" might have been to big a
> word) - In a relatively short time (a week or two?) the new printers
> will be shipping and there probably will be lots of 7600s for sale 
at
> good prices from folks upgrading to the 7800, so by waiting a bit
> longer a better deal could be found.  But, if you are willing to 
wait
> that long, a bit more time will probably produce some real feedback 
on
> the 7800 BW quality - you'd be kicking yourself if the 7800 turns 
out
> to be BW nirvana and you just bought a 7600.   Just food for 
thought.
> 
> 
> >Any suggestions in how to avoid a machine with micro banding? 
> >Any particular models that seem less inclined to this malady 
> >than others?
> 
> Best I can tell from reading this forum, it seems to vary from one 
to
> another.  I sold an 870 once to someone who had one and wanted
> another.  He said mine was smoother than his.  Reports about 1280s
> have been all over the map re clogging and banding.   Re the new K3
> printers, Epson did say something to the effect that the 17" and
> larger models will have tighter testing/alignment standards than the
> smaller models, so that may be in your favor (can anyone fill in 
here
> with some details?).
> 
>  
> >Incidentally, I have been doing alot of reading and research on 
> >the digital process for fine art photography.  Your writings have 
> >been among the most helpful and important to my getting started.  
> >I thank you for your generosity in sharing your expertise so 
openly. 

> 
> You're welcome, and thanks for the kind remarks.  Good luck in your
> printer quest, let us know what happens.  
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Nathan - the 4800s are shipping and so I suspect the 7800s won't be far away
at all.

Steve

> From: chiron1961 <NTJSLC@...>

> 
> OK Clayton:
> 
> That makes good sense.  I'll reign in the horses and pin my eye to
> the new prospect.  I'll be watching closely. (In the meantime, I am
> going to dive into the "trashed" old 7600 myself to see what I can do
> to fix it. I have some ideas. I'll keep you posted.) Thanks again.
> Keep up the good work.
> ---Nathan

You guys are going to laugh!  A couple of days ago, I finally 
mustered up the nerve to dive into my "trashed" Epson 7600 on my own. 
(When I told the Epson repairman my intention he scoffed ---
understandably.) But what did I have to lose?  My primary tools: red 
nail polish (to tag the exact position of moving parts), a stick of 
incense (the stem of which I used as an adhesive applicator), and 
Superglue!  There was a piece broken off in two places from the 
carriage housing. It engaged with several moving parts. It took 
several attempts, but I re-secured it in its original position.  To 
my utter amazement, the printer appears to be functioning as before.  
After multiple, large, high resolution prints, I do not know how long 
it will ultimately last ---but, hopefully, until the new 7800 is on 
the field and some of you pros have had a chance to test and analyze 
its capabilities. ---I am still in a state of disbelief. I can't 
believe it, but I am back to work.

Anyway, thanks all.

Nathan Jones
Salt Lake City



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chiron1961" 
<NTJSLC@a...> wrote:
> OK Clayton:
> 
> That makes good sense.  I'll reign in the horses and pin my eye to 
> the new prospect.  I'll be watching closely. (In the meantime, I am 
> going to dive into the "trashed" old 7600 myself to see what I can 
do 
> to fix it. I have some ideas. I'll keep you posted.) Thanks again. 
> Keep up the good work.
> ---Nathan 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton 
Jones" 
> <cj@c...> wrote:
> > Hello Nathan,
> > 
> > >Thank you kindly Clayton for the suggestion.  I think I'll start 
> > >searching for another Epson 7600 ---this time with a warranty.  
> > >It is a machine that seems tried and true.  After just one week 
> > >of waiting, I can hardly stand the thought of waiting months.  
> > 
> > Understood, but think about this ("months" might have been to big 
a
> > word) - In a relatively short time (a week or two?) the new 
printers
> > will be shipping and there probably will be lots of 7600s for 
sale 
> at
> > good prices from folks upgrading to the 7800, so by waiting a bit
> > longer a better deal could be found.  But, if you are willing to 
> wait
> > that long, a bit more time will probably produce some real 
feedback 
> on
> > the 7800 BW quality - you'd be kicking yourself if the 7800 turns 
> out
> > to be BW nirvana and you just bought a 7600.   Just food for 
> thought.
> > 
> > 
> > >Any suggestions in how to avoid a machine with micro banding? 
> > >Any particular models that seem less inclined to this malady 
> > >than others?
> > 
> > Best I can tell from reading this forum, it seems to vary from 
one 
> to
> > another.  I sold an 870 once to someone who had one and wanted
> > another.  He said mine was smoother than his.  Reports about 1280s
> > have been all over the map re clogging and banding.   Re the new 
K3
> > printers, Epson did say something to the effect that the 17" and
> > larger models will have tighter testing/alignment standards than 
the
> > smaller models, so that may be in your favor (can anyone fill in 
> here
> > with some details?).
> > 
> >  
> > >Incidentally, I have been doing alot of reading and research on 
> > >the digital process for fine art photography.  Your writings 
have 
> > >been among the most helpful and important to my getting 
started.  
> > >I thank you for your generosity in sharing your expertise so 
> openly. 
> > 
> > You're welcome, and thanks for the kind remarks.  Good luck in 
your

> > printer quest, let us know what happens.  
> > 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Clayton
> > 
> > 
> > Info on black and white digital printing at    
> > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chiron1961" 
<NTJSLC@a...> wrote:
> There was a piece broken off in two places from the 
> carriage housing. It engaged with several moving parts. It took 
> several attempts, but I re-secured it in its original position.  To 
> my utter amazement, the printer appears to be functioning as 
before.  
> After multiple, large, high resolution prints, I do not know how 
long 
> it will ultimately last ---but, hopefully, until the new 7800 is on 
> the field and some of you pros have had a chance to test and 
analyze 
> its capabilities. ---I am still in a state of disbelief. I can't 
> believe it, but I am back to work.
> 
> Anyway, thanks all.
> 
> Nathan Jones
> Salt Lake City
> 


You could always buy the replacement part and put it in.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chiron1961" 
> <NTJSLC@a...> wrote:
> > There was a piece broken off in two places from the 
> > carriage housing. It engaged with several moving parts. It took 
> > several attempts, but I re-secured it in its original position.  
To 
> > my utter amazement, the printer appears to be functioning as 
> before.  
> > After multiple, large, high resolution prints, I do not know how 
> long 
> > it will ultimately last ---but, hopefully, until the new 7800 is 
on 
> > the field and some of you pros have had a chance to test and 
> analyze 
> > its capabilities. ---I am still in a state of disbelief. I can't 
> > believe it, but I am back to work.
> > 
> > Anyway, thanks all.
> > 
> > Nathan Jones
> > Salt Lake City
> > 
> 
> 
> You could always buy the replacement part and put it in.

I doubt it.  It was the carriage chasis itself that was broken.  
Therefore I would have had to remove multiple components and then re-
install them.  The Epson technician estimated it would take him four 
hours, plus the nearly USD 600 cost of the part.  ---I think I lucked 
out. ---FIngers crossed and printing...


-Nathan

In that case, you might want to find some JB Weld two part epoxy, or 
one of the many automotive two part epoxy putty products so you can 
mold it into shape.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> In that case, you might want to find some JB Weld two part epoxy, or 
> one of the many automotive two part epoxy putty products so you can 
> mold it into shape.

If I ever have to attempt such a thing again, I'll try your 
suggestion.  Thanks.