Digital BW, The Print

Highlights and shadows don't show any banding at all, but the midtones are gently banded.   
It's not horrific and as casual prints they're ok, but nowhere near display quality.  Nozzle 
checks are OK.

Last night I was wondering if it was just a consequence of BO - incomplete surface coverage 
from not using the "color" print heads.  As I write this I also realize that I didn't check the 
head alignment.  Is BO printing particularly sensitive to head alignment? (Seems possible, 
but...)

I'm just wondering if anyone else has similar experience or thoughts on the cause of the 
banding.  Thanks! -b

Hello Bradley,

>Is BO printing particularly sensitive to head alignment? 

BO is sensitive to it, but I don't know if it's _more_ sensitive. 
Anyway, I found on my 2200 that head alignment can make a big
difference, and was also surprised that a supposedly non-optimum
setting  improved it the best.  I experimented with different settings
until I found the best one (ended up being line pair #2).  It took a
while but was worth it.  From what others have reported, apparently it
varies from one printer to another, so you'll just have to experiment.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Well, been following the group, and posted, a few question,
here and there, and got some good feedback,
of get into B&W printing for myself.

The recommended setup was:
    C86 Epson printer
    EEM Epson paper
    MIS Inks (Black & Grey)

However, been also hearing about clogging going on with MIS inks...
and you better have a cleaning kit ( or anti-clogging cartridges )

So, are the MIS inks still the best, or is there another solution ?

Thanks -
Rick 
---->( Running a Mac )

Print the purge sheet.. (you can cut off the colour bars to save ink
there).. 

Most likely it's the black ink that's clogged.. (It won't show up in
nozzle checks).. 

If this is the problem, your purge sheet should show the banding in
the black bar that would eventually go away.. (I haven't needed more
than 1 purge sheet to clear that up)

Michael

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bradley_w01"
<bradleywakoff@h...> wrote:
> Highlights and shadows don't show any banding at all, but the
midtones are gently banded.   
> It's not horrific and as casual prints they're ok, but nowhere near
display quality.  Nozzle 
> checks are OK.

Well, been following the group, and posted, a few question,
here and there, and got some good feedback,
of get into B&W printing for myself.

The recommended setup was:
    C86 Epson printer
    EEM Epson paper
    MIS Inks (Black & Grey)

However, been also hearing about clogging going on with MIS inks...
and you better have a cleaning kit ( or anti-clogging cartridges )

So, are the MIS inks still the best, or is there another solution ?

Thanks -
Rick 
---->( Running a Mac )

Hello Richard,

In regards to the MIS inks clogging, I find if you print regularly 
there is no major problem with them. I use an Epson 1280 which I've 
read has many problems with clogs, but since I started using the 
clear spongeless carts I've had none. Most of the the clogs are 
caused by foam buildup in the cart which blocks the outgoing ink from 
going out.

Your friend in Photogrphy,

Johnny



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard Nagle 
<cms01@t...> wrote:

> Well, been following the group, and posted, a few question,
> here and there, and got some good feedback,
> of get into B&W printing for myself.
> 
> The recommended setup was:
>     C86 Epson printer
>     EEM Epson paper
>     MIS Inks (Black & Grey)
> 
> However, been also hearing about clogging going on with MIS inks...
> and you better have a cleaning kit ( or anti-clogging cartridges )
> 
> So, are the MIS inks still the best, or is there another solution ?
> 
> Thanks -
> Rick 
> ---->( Running a Mac )

Interesting result with the "misaligned" heads, Clayton.  I'll experiment with my 1280 
tonight, but I'm curious what aspects of print quality improved when you changed the 
head alignment on your 2200?  And thank you again for the enormously time-saving 
advice!  -b

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" <cj@c...> wrote:

> Hello Bradley,
> 
> >Is BO printing particularly sensitive to head alignment? 
> 
> BO is sensitive to it, but I don't know if it's _more_ sensitive. 
> Anyway, I found on my 2200 that head alignment can make a big
> difference, and was also surprised that a supposedly non-optimum
> setting  improved it the best.  I experimented with different settings
> until I found the best one (ended up being line pair #2).  It took a
> while but was worth it.  From what others have reported, apparently it
> varies from one printer to another, so you'll just have to experiment.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Bradley,

>Interesting result with the "misaligned" heads, Clayton.  I'll 
>experiment with my 1280 tonight, but I'm curious what aspects of 
>print quality improved when you changed the head alignment on 
>your 2200?  

It reduced the microbanding to almost nothing.  When I got the 2200 it
had very little, then suddenly after a few months it increased.  I
figured it needed head alignment and followed the usual procedure by
choosing the most aligned line pair from the printout, but it made it
worse.  So I decided to experiment and did it again but chose a lower
number just to see what would happen - and it got better.  So I kept
doing it with the next lower number each time and it kept improving. 
I went all the way down to #2 and quit because I was tired of messing
with it, and it had gotten much better than ever before.  So I never
tried #1, but I've been very pleased with the results and it has been
that way for over a year.  

I do primarily BO printing, but also a small amount with UT7 and also
tried QTR a bit, and it's equally good with those.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

I've been using a C84, MIS EZ inks and EEM for about a year now, and 
have had no clogging issues of any significance.  The few times I've had 
nozzle problems a single cleaning cycle usually fixed things up, and it 
never took more than two cleaning cycles to get back to normal.  I've 
never used (and don't have) any "cleaning kit" or special cartridges (I 
do have a CIS on the machine.)

I've probably printed 1500 8x10 (or so) images during this period.  
Sometimes the work was hot and heavy for weeks at a time, but right now 
I'm printing about one image a week.  I turn the machine off when I know 
I'm not going to be using it for a while, and it almost always fires up 
just fine when next I need it. 

The C printer/EZ ink setup is an awfully easy and economical way to 
start out, and frankly I'm hard pressed to see why I would change to 
something else (unless and until I decide I have to print larger than 
letter size images, by which time I hope there's an EZ solution for a 
wide format printer.)

Cheers,
Kip

Richard Nagle wrote:

>Well, been following the group, and posted, a few question,here and there, and got some good feedback, of get into B&W printing for myself.
>
>The recommended setup was:
>    C86 Epson printer
>    EEM Epson paper
>    MIS Inks (Black & Grey)
>
>However, been also hearing about clogging going on with MIS inks...
>and you better have a cleaning kit ( or anti-clogging cartridges )
>
>So, are the MIS inks still the best, or is there another solution ?
>  
>

>...
> The C printer/EZ ink setup is an awfully easy and economical way to
> start out, and frankly I'm hard pressed to see why I would change to
> something else (unless and until I decide I have to print larger than
> letter size images, by which time I hope there's an EZ solution for a
> wide format printer.)


I could be very happy with my C86 with EZ and 7600 with UT7, and no other
printer.  Maybe we could convince Epson to make a cheap C86 with a 24"
carriage!

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Rick, I have been using this exact combination (with MIS 
cartridges) for about a month or so. I haven't had any problems 
with it. At the same time, I also haven't seen a major 
image-quality advantage at normal viewing distances between 
black-only mode and the full EZ inkset (I posted this info a few 
weeks ago and someone commented that I was the only person he had 
heard of who had successful results with the C86 in black-only mode).

If you want to get your feet wet you may try printing in black-only 
mode on your C86 with the original Epson ink before ordering the 
MIS set.

Jordan

Richard Nagle wrote:
> Well, been following the group, and posted, a few question,
> here and there, and got some good feedback,
> of get into B&W printing for myself.
> 
> The recommended setup was:
>     C86 Epson printer
>     EEM Epson paper
>     MIS Inks (Black & Grey)
> 
> However, been also hearing about clogging going on with MIS inks...
> and you better have a cleaning kit ( or anti-clogging cartridges )
> 
> So, are the MIS inks still the best, or is there another solution ?
> 
> Thanks -
> Rick 
> ---->( Running a Mac )
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 

-- 


Jordan Wosnick
jwosnick@...

Hi Jordan,

Well that is very interesting,
in fact, I was thinking of getting two C86
on for color only, and one for B&W...

I would think, the extra grey inks, would give more advantages,
over the standard color inks...for B&W. both being printed on
EEM paper.

The cool think, that sold me was, the fact, I could spruce up the 
color image.. and then print out with MIS inks, and get perfect grey scale
image, without messing around with the image, doing conversion to B&W.

Richard



Jordan Wosnick, jwosnick@..., Thursday, June 2, 2005

>
>Rick, I have been using this exact combination (with MIS 
>cartridges) for about a month or so. I haven't had any problems 
>with it. At the same time, I also haven't seen a major 
>image-quality advantage at normal viewing distances between 
>black-only mode and the full EZ inkset (I posted this info a few 
>weeks ago and someone commented that I was the only person he had 
>heard of who had successful results with the C86 in black-only mode).
>
>If you want to get your feet wet you may try printing in black-only 
>mode on your C86 with the original Epson ink before ordering the 
>MIS set.
>
>Jordan
>
>Richard Nagle wrote:
>> Well, been following the group, and posted, a few question,
>> here and there, and got some good feedback,
>> of get into B&W printing for myself.
>> 
>> The recommended setup was:
>>     C86 Epson printer
>>     EEM Epson paper
>>     MIS Inks (Black & Grey)
>> 
>> However, been also hearing about clogging going on with MIS inks...
>> and you better have a cleaning kit ( or anti-clogging cartridges )
>> 
>> So, are the MIS inks still the best, or is there another solution ?
>> 
>> Thanks -
>> Rick 
>> ---->( Running a Mac )
>>

Hi Richard,

In theory the MIS EZ inks "fill in the gaps" and provide nice 
smooth tonal transitions. However, in my hands, there isn't a huge 
difference between the full EZ ink set and printing with the "black 
only" setting (which composes the image from just dots of black 
ink). Others have reported that my observation is unusual, as I 
mentioned.

Although you can print from colour images just fine with the EZ 
inks, I think you'll find that you want to use finer control to get 
the best image from a colour source (e.g. channel mixing, etc.) My 
advice would be just to try things out and play around... I went 
crazy and made dozens of prints in my first few weeks with the 
setup. The results are very good. You'll be pleased.

Jordan


Richard Nagle wrote:
> Hi Jordan,
> 
> Well that is very interesting,
> in fact, I was thinking of getting two C86
> on for color only, and one for B&W...
> 
> I would think, the extra grey inks, would give more advantages,
> over the standard color inks...for B&W. both being printed on
> EEM paper.
> 
> The cool think, that sold me was, the fact, I could spruce up the 
> color image.. and then print out with MIS inks, and get perfect grey scale
> image, without messing around with the image, doing conversion to B&W.
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan Wosnick, jwosnick@..., Thursday, June 2, 2005
> 
> 
>>Rick, I have been using this exact combination (with MIS 
>>cartridges) for about a month or so. I haven't had any problems 
>>with it. At the same time, I also haven't seen a major 
>>image-quality advantage at normal viewing distances between 
>>black-only mode and the full EZ inkset (I posted this info a few 
>>weeks ago and someone commented that I was the only person he had 
>>heard of who had successful results with the C86 in black-only mode).
>>
>>If you want to get your feet wet you may try printing in black-only 
>>mode on your C86 with the original Epson ink before ordering the 
>>MIS set.
>>
>>Jordan
>>
>>Richard Nagle wrote:
>>
>>>Well, been following the group, and posted, a few question,
>>>here and there, and got some good feedback,
>>>of get into B&W printing for myself.
>>>
>>>The recommended setup was:
>>>    C86 Epson printer
>>>    EEM Epson paper
>>>    MIS Inks (Black & Grey)
>>>
>>>However, been also hearing about clogging going on with MIS inks...
>>>and you better have a cleaning kit ( or anti-clogging cartridges )
>>>
>>>So, are the MIS inks still the best, or is there another solution ?
>>>
>>>Thanks -
>>>Rick 
>>>---->( Running a Mac )
>>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 

-- 


Jordan Wosnick
jwosnick@...