Yahoo Groups archive
Thread
2005-06-20 by peterzakos
As a general rule, when developing B&W negs for both scanning and traditional darkroom which paper grade (i.e. II or III) would it be preferable to standardize my film development? In other words, should I develop my negs for a lower or higher contrast? Many thanks in advance to all who share their time and experiance in answering my question. Peter.
2005-06-20 by Mark Savoia
I would do it for the total tonal range available from the film/ developer combination. Then make you judgement for contrast later in your scan and in PhotoShop. Mark On Jun 20, 2005, at 10:52 AM, peterzakos wrote: > As a general rule, when developing B&W negs for both scanning and > traditional darkroom which paper grade (i.e. II or III) would it be > preferable to standardize my film development? In other words, > should > I develop my negs for a lower or higher contrast? > Many thanks in advance to all who share their time and experiance in > answering my question. > Peter. > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by > visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages > to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed > from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be > removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the > group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� > in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE > �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-06-20 by Stephen Petegorsky
Peter - Not to be difficult, but I think the answer to your question will have a lot to do with both the enlarger that you're using for wet printing and the scanner you're using. A negative that prints easily with a condenser enlarger will not print the same way with a cold-light head. By the same token, different scanners have different light sources that may make for a scan with more or less contrast to begin with. Since you have less control in the darkroom, my suggestion would be to make negatives whose exposure and development allow you to make wet prints on a 2.5 or 3 paper grade, and then adjust your scanning to best capture the range of tones. What's tricky is that underexposure is what easily kills negatives for wet printing, and overexposure or overdevelopment can make a negative very hard to scan.
2005-06-20 by Allan Chen
I think it is always preferable to standardize your development. The hard part is figuring out what standard to use. I am not particularly advanced when it comes to scanning. I am still trying to get through all the information out there about doing this, scanning as a positive, using RAW, etc. It's sad that I haven't spent that much time on it yet, but it's the truth. Therefore, I have built together my own methods. I do try for the maximum tonality I can get, but there aren't many methods that will save shadow detail that is being minimized from underexposure _and_ highlights that are being blown from overdevelopment. I can often use film/dev profiles in Vuescan to get more out of one end than I otherwise would have, allowing for a bit of "sloppy" technique, but I can't handle both. Therefore, I usually err on the side of underdevelopment at first. I lock in an EI that works for most of the profiles in Vuescan, then I extend development until I get a nice, full histogram. That's my method. Works for me so far. Makes working in Photoshop easier. I'm satisfied until I get through all the other info. allan Mark Savoia wrote: > I would do it for the total tonal range available from the film/ > developer combination. Then make you judgement for contrast later in > your scan and in PhotoShop. > Mark > > On Jun 20, 2005, at 10:52 AM, peterzakos wrote: > > >>As a general rule, when developing B&W negs for both scanning and >>traditional darkroom which paper grade (i.e. II or III) would it be >>preferable to standardize my film development? In other words, >>should >>I develop my negs for a lower or higher contrast? >>Many thanks in advance to all who share their time and experiance in >>answering my question. >>Peter. >> >> >> >> >>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other >>resources as they are often being updated. >> >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >> >>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you >>wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by >>visiting this same page. >> >>Please follow these basic guidelines: >>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages >>to keep them short. >>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or >>flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed >>from the membership without notice. >>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital >>B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be >>removed from the membership. >>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules >>and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the >>group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd >>in the Files section: >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ >> >>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >>PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE >>\ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL >>NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, >>CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, >>DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER >>INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL >>BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF >>SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE >>THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO >>OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR >>CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO >>GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >>PRINT YAHOO GROUP. >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >>To visit your group on the web, go to: >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ >> >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. >> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- Technical Projects Specialist Academic Computing Stanford University v - (650) 996-0546 f - (650) 725-4685
2005-06-20 by Brian Ellis
>As a general rule, when developing >B&W negs for both scanning and >traditional darkroom which paper grade >(i.e. II or III) would it be >preferable to standardize my film >development? In other words, >should >I develop my negs for a lower or higher >contrast? It depends in part on how serious you are about tailoring your negatives to suit a particular scene and on how much, if any, testing you're willing to do. Ideally you base your development time on the contrast in the scene and on how you want the print to look, i.e. shorter time = lower contrast which you might want for a scene in which the subject brightness range exceeds the ability of the film to hold detail in the dark and bright areas, longer time = higher contrast, which you might want for a "flat" scene that you think would look better when printed with more contrast than the scene possesses. The times needed to accomplish this are determined by testing and you can learn how by reading a couple chapters in any of several books. The easiest one to follow IMHO is Fred Picker's book "Zone VI Workshop" or if that isn't available Ansel Adams' book "The Negative" is also good. The above methodology is feasible if you're using sheet film since only then can you develop each negative separately. It isn't feasible if you're using roll film since obviously each negative on a roll must be developed the same way. If you're using roll film (or if you're using sheet film but don't want to do any reading or testing) then for starters set your film speed at half the rated speed and develop for 20% less than the manufacturer's recommended time. By cutting the film speed in half you should insure that you'll have detail in the shadow areas and by cutting the time by about 20% you should reduce the likelihood of blown out highlights. See how that works with some typical photographs. If your negatives consistently tend to look too dense in the highlights then reduce your development time by another 10% or so. If they look underexposed in the highlights increase your development time by another 10% or so. It shouldn't take long to come up with a single development time that works reasonably well for most of your negatives. Of course you need to be sure that you use the same temperature and agitation method every time.
----- Original Message ----- From: "peterzakos" <peterzakos@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: [Digital BW] Optimizing B&W film development for both digital and traditional darkroom As a general rule, when developing B&W negs for both scanning and traditional darkroom which paper grade (i.e. II or III) would it be preferable to standardize my film development? In other words, should I develop my negs for a lower or higher contrast? Many thanks in advance to all who share their time and experiance in answering my question. Peter. Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
2005-06-20 by Scott McLoughlin
In my experience, scanners like lower contrast, thinner negatives. Definitely applies to my Coolscan V. I've moved toward dilute developers (HC-110, Acutol, Rodinal) and minimal agitation (typically 1 inversion every 2 minutes), and have been very happy with the scans. Denser negs block up highlights and make for very grainy scans. For wet printing, A&T in the Cookbook also state that for 135 format films, at least, one should aim for the "minimum exposure and minimum development that still gives adequate shadow detail" (paraphrase from memory), and mention printing on grade III. Scott Mark Savoia wrote:
>I would do it for the total tonal range available from the film/ >developer combination. Then make you judgement for contrast later in >your scan and in PhotoShop. >Mark > >On Jun 20, 2005, at 10:52 AM, peterzakos wrote: > > > >>As a general rule, when developing B&W negs for both scanning and >>traditional darkroom which paper grade (i.e. II or III) would it be >>preferable to standardize my film development? In other words, >>should >>I develop my negs for a lower or higher contrast? >>Many thanks in advance to all who share their time and experiance in >>answering my question. >>Peter. >> >> >> >> >>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other >>resources as they are often being updated. >> >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >> >>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you >>wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by >>visiting this same page. >> >>Please follow these basic guidelines: >>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages >>to keep them short. >>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or >>flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed >>from the membership without notice. >>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital >>B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be >>removed from the membership. >>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules >>and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the >>group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd >>in the Files section: >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ >> >>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >>PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE >>\ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL >>NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, >>CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, >>DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER >>INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL >>BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF >>SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE >>THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO >>OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR >>CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO >>GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >>PRINT YAHOO GROUP. >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >>To visit your group on the web, go to: >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ >> >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. >> >> >> > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > >Please follow these basic guidelines: >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >
2005-06-21 by Ken Carney
Peter, Are you shooting large format, or roll film such as 120 or 35mm? If you are shooting 35mm, you'll want to stay away from dense or especially "bullet-proof" negs. One of the great attractions of TriX in 35mm is that you have to do something really terrible in exposure, to get a negative you can't print. But, that's not true with scanning - a dense 35mm neg can be difficult to scan. If you are enlarging with a diffusion source such as a dichro or cold-light head and get good prints with no. 2-3 grade, you should be OK for scanning. If you are shooting large format, it is much more forgiving to scan within reason. With LF I would stay away from staining developers such as pyro, since those can be really difficult to scan. Probably the best 35mm scans I have are from Kodak C-41 process b&w film, but it is not archival and is difficult to print in the darkroom. --ken
> -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of peterzakos > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:53 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Digital BW] Optimizing B&W film development for > both digital and traditional darkroom > > As a general rule, when developing B&W negs for both scanning > and traditional darkroom which paper grade (i.e. II or III) > would it be preferable to standardize my film development? > In other words, should I develop my negs for a lower or > higher contrast? > Many thanks in advance to all who share their time and > experiance in answering my question. > Peter. > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or > you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership > preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier > messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks > or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be > removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of > digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic > posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group > rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and > decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group > Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE > THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, > INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN > IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED > ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >