Digital BW, The Print

>The story of how he coated the paper >and recoated the prints and
>with perfect registration re-exposed in >order to increase density
>amazed me.

The NY Times reporter gushed over that too but there's nothing unusual or 
particularly difficult about  rexposing in registration with one or more 
previous exposures. The techniques are well known and relatively easy. Not 
to take anything away from the quality of Penn's prints which I'm sure are 
outstanding but gum printers commonly expose, process, and re-expose many 
more times than Penn did.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Unger" <ungram@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 2:16 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Matte Black and Platinum


I just saw the Irving Penn show of Platinum Prints at the National
Gallery here in Washington, DC and am struck by the similarities
between Platinum and Matte Black digital looks.  Both are warm toned
and have a long tonal range without intensely dramatic blacks.

The Penn prints were of some of his most interesting images during
the course of his career.  In the '70s he decided to print these
himself.

The story of how he coated the paper and recoated the prints and
with perfect registration re-exposed in order to increase density
amazed me.

The show is outstanding.  There are interesting reviews of it in The
Washington Post and New York Times.  After seeing this show I think
that as far as working with Matte Black the "Holy Grail" should be
Platinum prints, not Silver Gelatin on air dried fiber.  I'd bet
that the Penn prints could be reproduced very closely with Matte
Black ink on high quality paper.

Andrew




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Penn didn't print any of those platinums I don't think. They were done by a 
specialist who devised a technique for sizing the paper that gave this tonal 
range and resolution. A guy who is a well known fine art printer in Paris told 
me about that. It wasn't just gelatin but a "secret" sizing that had something 
added, according to legend. He said pretty much gelatin and possibly some 
kind of starch. So, when double coating was done the paper didn't shrink at all 
and the blacks didn't sink into the surface like a lot of earlier platinum work.

John



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Ellis" <
bellis60@v...> wrote:
> >The story of how he coated the paper >and recoated the prints and
> >with perfect registration re-exposed in >order to increase density
> >amazed me.
> 
> The NY Times reporter gushed over that too but there's nothing unusual or 
> particularly difficult about  rexposing in registration with one or more 
> previous exposures. The techniques are well known and relatively easy. 
Not 
> to take anything away from the quality of Penn's prints which I'm sure are 
> outstanding but gum printers commonly expose, process, and re-expose 
many 
> more times than Penn did.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Andrew Unger" <ungram@v...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 2:16 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Matte Black and Platinum
> 
> 
> I just saw the Irving Penn show of Platinum Prints at the National
> Gallery here in Washington, DC and am struck by the similarities
> between Platinum and Matte Black digital looks.  Both are warm toned
> and have a long tonal range without intensely dramatic blacks.
> 
> The Penn prints were of some of his most interesting images during
> the course of his career.  In the '70s he decided to print these
> himself.
> 
> The story of how he coated the paper and recoated the prints and
> with perfect registration re-exposed in order to increase density
> amazed me.
> 
> The show is outstanding.  There are interesting reviews of it in The
> Washington Post and New York Times.  After seeing this show I think
> that as far as working with Matte Black the "Holy Grail" should be
> Platinum prints, not Silver Gelatin on air dried fiber.  I'd bet
> that the Penn prints could be reproduced very closely with Matte
> Black ink on high quality paper.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner 
and 
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
THE "OWNER" AND 
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL 
NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL 
OR EXEMPLARY 
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
PROFITS, 
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  
"OWNER" AND 
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE 
BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR 
THE INABILITY 
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) 
UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS 
OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) 
ANY OTHER 

> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Ellis"
<bellis60@v...> wrote:
> >The story of how he coated the paper >and recoated the prints and
> >with perfect registration re-exposed in >order to increase density
> >amazed me.
> 
> The NY Times reporter gushed over that too but there's nothing
unusual or 
> particularly difficult about  rexposing in registration with one or
more 
> previous exposures. The techniques are well known and relatively
easy. Not 
> to take anything away from the quality of Penn's prints which I'm
sure are 
> outstanding but gum printers commonly expose, process, and re-expose
many 
> more times than Penn did.

Yes, we do.  I've gone past six on some projects.

But I would never call it "relatively easy" or say "there's nothing
unusual or particularly difficult" about it.

It's a bleeding pain. You can spend an enormous amount of time playing
with different papers to find out which are stable through the
multiple long wet steps. I often make a couple of cycles, running the
paper (uncoated, no exposure) through all the baths, for the full time
in each bath, to relax it, before starting the coating and multiple
exposure process. It only takes one bad lift to stretch the paper
enough to mutilate the alignment of the next layer.

And platinum literature, unlike gum literature, is full of paper
recommendations to get a good looking print in a single pass, with no
thoughts to how the paper will handle in multiple passes. So the
beginning multiple pass platimum printer is out there on his own, with
no guideposts...