Digital BW, The Print

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Daniel Staver" <daniel@... <mailto:daniel@...>> 

Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Ink settling in a 2100? 

"After mailing back and forth with MIS about this issue they ended up saying that the settling issue is normal and NOTHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT except use the autoprint program to print something every day."

That is "bull".

To escape having to translate the story of my own woes into English, I quote Elwood Spedden's message "Re: [Digital BW] UT7 Ink Cart Problems Resolved (Well...almost)" from June 22, 2005:

"I went through two complete sets of MIS UT inks because I love the eboni matte black but as a set I never was able to resolve problems with air locks etc. I tried to no success to resolve this through MIS tech support but frankly they either did not care or knew even less than I. consequently I have never been successful and have given up"

Ditto.

People complain here all the time that the nozzles of their printers are clogged.

The nozzles of my 1290 were never clogged if I only used EOM inks.

I have had an Epson 2100 (2200 in the US.) since it was introduced and not had a single clogged nozzle, but I have used only OEM inks.

Let's face it: MIS "sucks".

Nozzles are not clogged - the inks just do not flow out.

Daniel asked: "Anyone know about other high quality color inks in the same price range that doesn't have this problem"?

What's wrong with Epson's inks?

Daniel, you seem to print only B&W.

Try QTR, Quad Tone Rip. I cannot use it since it resizes i.e. a 24 x 23.8 cm print up to 24.9 x 25 cm and I have not been able to figure out why, but if you can live with that, it works just fine.

BO, Black Only, is beautiful.

All you wise men, correct me if I am wrong: I have understood that Epson's Matte Black is just about pure carbon, as archival as can be, and nicely warm, too.

All this applies only to matte prints. If you want glossy prints, or deeper blacks, varnish your QTR or BO prints. Try Golden varnish, it is American. Tape your print on plywood, apply the varnish with a brush and smooth it with a foam plastic roller. IMHO, an image printed i.e. on Hawk Mountain Merlin Photo and varnished with glossy varnish looks better than on "plastic" glossy papers.

Finally: an Epson 2400 print looks exactly like a varnished Epson 2100 print, except that one can view it because it is not glossy.

B&W 2400 prints on glossy papers are OK, too, if one does not mind the plastic look.

IMHO.

Ukko Heikkinen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Golden Varnish sounds very interesting.  They have one called "Golden
Archival Varnish" - is that the one to which you are refering?

Their site also refers to a new aerosol version of this varnish.  Has 
anyone
given that a try?  The aerosol comes in gloss, matte and satin finish.

Scott

Ukko Heikkinen wrote:

>
> All this applies only to matte prints. If you want glossy prints, or 
> deeper blacks, varnish your QTR or BO prints. Try Golden varnish, it 
> is American. Tape your print on plywood, apply the varnish with a 
> brush and smooth it with a foam plastic roller. IMHO, an image printed 
> i.e. on Hawk Mountain Merlin Photo and varnished with glossy varnish 
> looks better than on "plastic" glossy papers.
>
>

I wouldn't go as far as saying MIS sucks. I've been very happy with their BW
products for many years now. I also like their extremely fast international
shipping and low prices. The customer service has usually been ok, giving me
responses to my questions within reasonable time. However, it was
disappointing to be told that they acknowledge the settling issue, but that
nothing can be done about it. 

I use the UT7 inks in the MIS easy refill cartridges and they're working
great for me. No clogged nozzles, ever. I use MIS PKN and GLOP with custom
QTR curves when I want glossy prints with great DMAX and no bronzing. No
problems there either.

The MIS Archival 7600 inks are a little more troublesome. Sometimes when I
leave them out of the printer for a while and put them back in I get nozzle
check problems. Taking out the problematic cartridges and shaking out the
bubbles at the bottom usually solves the problem. Once they're in and I get
good nozzle checks they stay good until I take them out again. That leaves
me with the settling issues, which is more serious for me. I want consistent
color, and I'm not getting it right now.

There's no way I'm going back to Epson inks. A single Epson cartridge for my
2100 costs around $25 here in Norway. I've calculated that the MIS inks are
less than 1/10 of that price when I buy 4oz bottles and refill myself. I'm
willing to put up with some bad nozzle checks every now and then to save
that amount of money, but I don't want color shifts.

In other words I'll stay with MIS for BW and will look for other third party
alternatives for archival color inks.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ukko Heikkinen"
<ukko.heikkinen@p...> wrote:

Well, I guess this should not be uncommented:

> People complain here all the time that the nozzles of their printers
are clogged.

"People - all the time" - it is the same type of generalisation all
the time when something doesn't work for certain persons: Those who
dont have clogged nozzles will not postthis.

> I have had an Epson 2100 (2200 in the US.) since it was introduced
and not had a single clogged nozzle, but I have used only OEM inks.

I have used my Epson with UT7 inks from MIS 98% of the time (1,5
years), and I generally have no problems at all, missing
nozzles from time to time - actually very rarely - are ok after 1 or 2
cleaning cycles. 

Of course I could also use the Epson OEM inks, but the MIS with CFS is
cheaper by factor 10 probably. I print a lot and ink printing is
probably one of the few areas where the consumer doesn't get
reductions for consuming more. In fact "pro users" are punished by
paying the same high price over and over again.
 
> Let's face it: MIS "sucks".

No. For me they have worked very well. MIS make very good b&w inks,
and at very competitive prices. I guess that this is also partly
because Paul makes all teh research for them, I hope he is properly
paid for it.

There were some issues with the CFS instructions when I got it, and I
was not really happy with the way they handled it, but the inks are
really great. But now every thing works as it should.

I remember that people who used piezographyBW had *much* more problems
with clogged nozzles a few years ago when that was the only option.
Sometimes the clogs required special cleaning/ purging techniques or
were permanent. When was it that I last read the word "clog from hell"
here? Must be quite a while.

And the price was much higher than MIS (even higher than Epson OEM).

> What's wrong with Epson's inks?

Nothing, except the price. Its costumers rip off.

regards, bernie

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Bernie Ess" 

"> Let's face it: MIS "sucks".

No. For me they have worked very well."

"Sucks" was in quotation marks - no offence meant. OEM inks are trouble-free, but as a matter of fact one can still expect trouble if one uses MIS's inks. 

That is, of course, a pity.

I am sorry that I forgot the quotation marks in the headline.

Ukko Heikkinen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Ukko,

I have UT7 in my 2200 and it almost never clogs even after sitting for
2 weeks.  When I want to print I don't even bother with a nozzle check
any more.  I had what I thought were clogs in the beginning but I
finally figured out it was air getting in there when I changed carts.
 I'm refilling the EZ top-fill carts.

The best prevention I've found is first to have two sets of carts so
the replacement is ready to go.  When I change the cart the slot is
open to the air for just a couple seconds at most.  Then, before doing
anything I let it sit for a few minutes (before pushing the ink
button) to let the ink in the new cart settle down into the head.

The third thing, an ink saver tip I just recently learned, when I'm
ready to go back to work instead of pushing the ink button, I turn off
the printer, then immediately back on again.  This avoids the wastful
cleaning cycle that the ink button triggers.  It works great and I
almost never have clogs.

As for MIS, I've found them to be far better than many other vendors,
and I'd be lost without their products.  They rate high in my book.
Sorry you are having such a hard time - maybe you got stuck with a bad
printer.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

I have had a terrible time with their cartridges for the 21/2200.  If my
printer sits for a couple of days the cartridges have to be re-primed.  I'm
not buying any more until the new carts arrive - hopefully they will be a
huge improvement on the current ones which have really let them down.  I
have always found their service to be great - just a key product severely
lacking vs the item it is intended to replace.  They've got great ink but
the vehicle to deliver it is not consistently there for the 21/2200.
However, venting here is not a solution.  Rather:

Phn:   (800) 445-8296 ... Order Desk - No Tech Support
Phn:   (248) 391-2163 ... Sales Dept & Technical Support

For the record, I obviously concur with Clayton's comments below, except I
do a nozzle check if the printer has been sitting unused for a few days.  I
would never have continued with MIS and its inks if I had problems.  And I
have had clogs with Epson OEM and HP inks.  Any can clog.  

Even assuming for the sake of argument that un-coated pigments might clog
slightly more than Epson's coated UC pigments, what little difference might
exist is vastly outweighed by the advantages of the third party pigments.
This group and good B&W printing would probably not exist but for third
party pigments.

Clayton wrote, in part:

> I have UT7 in my 2200 and it almost never clogs even after sitting for
> 2 weeks.  When I want to print I don't even bother with a nozzle check
> any more.  I had what I thought were clogs in the beginning but I
> finally figured out it was air getting in there when I changed carts.
>  I'm refilling the EZ top-fill carts.
> 
> The best prevention I've found is first to have two sets of carts so
> the replacement is ready to go.  When I change the cart the slot is
> open to the air for just a couple seconds at most.  Then, before doing
> anything I let it sit for a few minutes (before pushing the ink
> button) to let the ink in the new cart settle down into the head.
> 
> ...

> As for MIS, I've found them to be far better than many other vendors,
> and I'd be lost without their products.  They rate high in my book.
> Sorry you are having such a hard time - maybe you got stuck with a bad
> printer.


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com