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Thread

Golden varnish

2005-06-30 by Ukko Heikkinen

----- Original Message -----

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From: "Scott McLoughlin" 
"Golden Varnish sounds very interesting.  They have one called "Golden Archival Varnish" - is that the one to which you are refering?"

No, it was Golden 50 or something, came in a plastic can. I bought one to find out if it were better than our domestic Natura, but it was not. In addition it must be thinned before use - Natura is good out of the can -  and I did not bother to find out the best dilution.

"Their site also refers to a new aerosol version of this varnish.  Has 
anyone
given that a try?  The aerosol comes in gloss, matte and satin finish."

Elwood Spedden posted already the answer: "For anyone following the thread re: golden varnish I
found the website for golden paints www.goldenpaint.com and they say the Golden Archival Varnish is standard Golden Varnish thinned and mixed with a propellant for use in aerosol cans.

Ukko Heikkinen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Golden varnish

2005-06-30 by Elwood Spedden

Oops.........slight mistake in the URL It is:

www.goldenpaints.com

Sorry 
Woody

--- Ukko Heikkinen <ukko.heikkinen@...> wrote:


---------------------------------

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----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Scott McLoughlin" 
"Golden Varnish sounds very interesting.  They have
one called "Golden Archival Varnish" - is that the one
to which you are refering?"

No, it was Golden 50 or something, came in a plastic
can. I bought one to find out if it were better than
our domestic Natura, but it was not. In addition it
must be thinned before use - Natura is good out of the
can -  and I did not bother to find out the best
dilution.

"Their site also refers to a new aerosol version of
this varnish.  Has 
anyone
given that a try?  The aerosol comes in gloss, matte
and satin finish."

Elwood Spedden posted already the answer: "For anyone
following the thread re: golden varnish I
found the website for golden paints
www.goldenpaint.com and they say the Golden Archival
Varnish is standard Golden Varnish thinned and mixed
with a propellant for use in aerosol cans.

Ukko Heikkinen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Varnish

2005-07-01 by Louis de Stoutz

Greetings,

it seems that quite a few use varnishes. Sorry if this has been 
asked/said before: what is the archival aspect of those varnishes? Do we 
have any information about the different makes? I wouldn't like to 
reduce the life-span of my prints because of the wrong varnish!

Thanks,
Louis

Re: Varnish

2005-07-01 by scott_now_coming

Mainly, sealing the print surface from  oxidation.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Louis de Stoutz 
<loudest@a...> wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> it seems that quite a few use varnishes. Sorry if this has been 
> asked/said before: what is the archival aspect of those varnishes? Do 
we

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> have any information about the different makes? I wouldn't like to 
> reduce the life-span of my prints because of the wrong varnish!
> 
> Thanks,
> Louis

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Varnish - Oxygen barrier?

2005-07-01 by Paul Roark

Ideally, we would like to be able to find a varnish that will be an oxygen
barrier, but so far there appears to be no good oxygen barrier available to
us.  

I've been thinking of trying a low viscosity, aliphatic epoxy, which may be
the best bet for a better moisture barrier, but even it cannot stop oxygen.
However, to the extent we can stop moisture, we might slow the oxidation
because water seems to be like a catalyst for such (think rust).

I think what the current varnishes contribute most to longevity is physical
protection.  Most of the old photos I'm involved with restoring have
physical damage that is more of a problem than fading.  (Acidic paper is
another issue, but it's easy to solve with acid-free paper.)

Some UV protection is also offered by some coatings and is most important
for outside display and Epson UC inks.  MIS pigments in my tests act as if
they have some UV protection built into the base.  For example, while
PremierArt print shield slows the fade rate of UC pigs about 30%, it's only
10% for MIS pigs.  Of course, on matte paper, the PremierArt Print Shield
lowers the dmax of the print so much I don't think it is worth it,
especially on MIS pigs.  So, I use Lascaux (no UV or longevity effects) for
matte prints.  

The thicker the coating, the more effective it seems to be in some tests.  I
think the Wilhelm tests of the solvent v. water-based PremeirArt coatings
demonstrates this.  While solvent-based UV coatings are generally more
effective than water-based ones, according to the Golden tech rep, the
Premier Art Eco (water-borne) coating appears to be more effective than the
solvent based one.

I tried to see about moisture affects by putting my fader with coated v.
uncoated test strips on a water bath and sealing off its vents.  I was using
polyurethane (PUR) (Hydrocote) at the time due, in part, to PUR being a
superior barrier.  However, the polyurethane-coated test strip did worse
than the un-coated test strip.  In my normal tests with no water bath
polyurethane had no effect.  I believe what happened is that the moisture
got to the pigs through the back of the matte paper and then was not dried
out on the surface by the relatively hot light (not nearly as hot as the
Xenon lights used by many commercial testers).  That is, the PUR probably
trapped the moisture at the surface of the particles and made things worse.
One of the criticisms of fade testing is that they usually exaggerate the
lightfastness due to the drying effect of the light on the surface.  (The
testers who think they are measuring and controlling the temperature and
humidity are not really able to know what is happening at the particle
level.  They are simply measuring the air in the chamber, which I don't
believe tells us that much about the actual surface of the particle.)

So, it's a complex problem.  I think a low viscosity aliphatic epoxy as a
first coat and then a second coat that has UV protection -- in part to
protect the epoxy -- might be an interesting combination.

I continue to search for an oxygen barrier, and some films that might be
applied as laminates may be closes.  However, one tech rep at a company that
makes clear oxygen barriers for food and other preservation purposes says
the problems with them include that they have short effective lives.  As
such, they would not meet our needs for archival stability.  He knew of no
oxygen barrier (yet) that would be suitable for our uses.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> scott_now_coming
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 5:17 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Varnish
> 
> Mainly, sealing the print surface from  oxidation.
> 
> Scott
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Louis de Stoutz
> <loudest@a...> wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > it seems that quite a few use varnishes. Sorry if this has been
> > asked/said before: what is the archival aspect of those varnishes? Do
> we
> > have any information about the different makes? I wouldn't like to
> > reduce the life-span of my prints because of the wrong varnish!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Louis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
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> 
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> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
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> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: Varnish

2005-07-01 by Louis de Stoutz

scott_now_coming wrote:

> Mainly, sealing the print surface from  oxidation.

I understand that, and also from UV. My point is another one: we use 
archival paper and archival pigments. What tells me that the probably 
complex components of a varnish are in themselves archival too? That the 
varnish will not deteriorate? That its chemicals won't deteriorate the 
print? That it won't get brittle and take pieces of ink with it? etc.

(I sometimes also wonder about the coatings that are applied on 
otherwise very archival papers.)

Does Wilhelm test varnishes too?

Louis

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Louis de Stoutz 
> <loudest@a...> wrote:
> 
>>Greetings,
>>
>>it seems that quite a few use varnishes. Sorry if this has been 
>>asked/said before: what is the archival aspect of those varnishes? Do 
> 
> we 
> 
>>have any information about the different makes? I wouldn't like to 
>>reduce the life-span of my prints because of the wrong varnish!
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Louis

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Varnish

2005-07-02 by Ukko Heikkinen

Lois asked:

"What tells me that the probably  complex components of a varnish are in themselves archival too? That the  varnish will not deteriorate? That its chemicals won't deteriorate the  print? That it won't get brittle and take pieces of ink with it? etc."

As a beginning, please see

http://www.livick.com/method/inkjet/pg2IA.htm

Here is the home page of Clearshield:


http://www.clearstarcorp.com/

Ukko Heikkinen




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Varnish

2005-07-02 by Ernst Dinkla

Louis de Stoutz wrote:

>
>I understand that, and also from UV. My point is another one: we use 
>archival paper and archival pigments. What tells me that the probably 
>complex components of a varnish are in themselves archival too? That the 
>varnish will not deteriorate? That its chemicals won't deteriorate the 
>print? That it won't get brittle and take pieces of ink with it? etc.
>
>(I sometimes also wonder about the coatings that are applied on 
>otherwise very archival papers.)
>
>Does Wilhelm test varnishes too?
>
>Louis
>
>
>  
>
Wilhelm tested one varnish and it increased the fade resistance of the 
pigment inkjet inks. You can find it in the data of recent tests. Livick 
also tested varnishes and gets better results too.

Modern resins do have better qualities than what we were used to. 
Yellowing in time doesn't have to happen, flexibility is kept etc. What 
is important is that the inkjet print itself has a high risk of getting 
damaged, mechanically and chemically (oxidation, humidity, other gas 
fading). The varnish gets that at a better level. With traditional 
printing and painting techniques that produce a tough layer there may be 
less gain in better protection by a varnish than what a varnish does to 
inkjet prints. Matte pigment inkjet prints especially are quite easily 
damaged as the bond between pigment/medium/coating/paper isn't high, the 
pigment particles not really embedded in a strong layer. Adding a 
varnish that offers mechanical protection, enhances the bond and lowers 
oxidation/gas fading. The Epson acrylic resin encapsulation of the 
pigment particles is another method.

UV protection is possible with a varnish but a varnish doesn't have to 
have UV protection in the first place as the prints discussed here are 
exposed to indoor light mainly and that's also how Wilhelm tests his 
samples. UV fading may only contribute 15% at most in the fading indoors 
as tested, the rest is visible light fading, gas fading etc.

Ernst

Digital BW, The Print

Golden varnish

Golden varnish

Re: [Digital BW] Golden varnish

Varnish

Re: Varnish

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Varnish - Oxygen barrier?

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Varnish

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Varnish

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Varnish

Move to quarantaine