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Re: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia

Re: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia

2001-12-11 by Steadman Uhlich

I agree and hope Paul's sepia mix will do the trick.  

Steadman (Sepia Fan)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: culturalvisions 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:43 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia


  I second the question put to Paul.  I appreciate the VM system, but
  hardly ever use the cool choices.  This suggests that my quad 1160 is
  basically being used as a tri tone system.  I would be much happier
  with that fourth cartridge filled with a warming pigment.

  I was thinking that rather than order the VM CFS, next refill I'll try
  the FS set.

  Paul is doing such pioneering and helpful work, that my first choice
  is to stick with his system.  But I would love it to be neutral to sepia.

  Frank

  http://www.culturalvisions.com


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., grdglass@a... wrote:
  > Hi Paul,
  > 
  > What is the status of the sepia inkset?  Have you finalized the
  formula and 
  > is MIS interested in producing it?
  > 
  > Many thanks,
  > Helene
  > 
  > 
  > > Have you seen the sample of the sepia-neutral inkset?  
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia

2001-12-11 by Paul Roark

Frank,

You wrote:

>...  I appreciate the VM system, but hardly ever use the cool choices.
>...I would be much happier
>with that fourth cartridge filled with a warming pigment.

That seems to be the reaction of a lot of people -- I think myself included.
The very cold tones were an interesting novelty, but I think most have
gravitated to neutral or warm tones.  I'm getting very positive results and
comments from the sepia-tone prints I'm starting to experiment with.

So, the sepia-to-neutral range seems like it is going to cover a very useful
range.  Frankly, the MIS VM was an easy way to get a cool/neutral print, and
there are some who really like the very cold tones.  I think there is room
for two versions of the system.  This sepia-neutral range is much more work
to mix, and MIS doesn't want its inventory to get out of control.  However,
I think they'll pre-mix it.

So, I'd say in a couple of weeks it should be out.  I've given MIS what I
believe is the final formula for the sepia-to-neutral inkset, but I suspect
they'll wait until I can do some final testing.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia

2001-12-11 by Jeff Magidson

Paul wrote:

>That seems to be the reaction of a lot of people -- I think myself included.
>The very cold tones were an interesting novelty, but I think most have
>gravitated to neutral or warm tones.  I'm getting very positive results and
>comments from the sepia-tone prints I'm starting to experiment with.

I also agree to that notion!

I like to options that the current VM offers but I really only use two
of the curves. I use the WARM curve 80% of the time and the Neutral WARM
curve to other 20% of the time.


Just wondering... where does the tone of the Neutral tone in the Sepia
mix fall in to the tone choices of the current VM mix?

-Jeff

Re: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia

2001-12-11 by Paul Roark

Jeff wrote:

>... where does the tone of the Neutral tone in the Sepia
>mix fall in to the tone choices of the current VM mix?

I'm shooting for dead neutral with EAM on my 1160 using the 1160's "warm"
curve (least amount of toner).  For colder tones, LPM will make the print
close to the NC curve.  However, for my 1160 and it's "warm" curve (which
might be re-named "sepia neutral") the tone would be slightly warmer than
the current "nc" curve.

The neutral base of the sepia-neutral inkset does warm, but less than and
slower than the other inks.  That is one reason I'm not building in any
coolness in anticipation of warming.  So, it will ultimately warm to a
medium warm, but it'll take a long time to do it.  For example, at 100 hours
in my fader, the neutral base warms less than half the amount of the MIS VM
or other inks.  In fact, I'm at 900 hours now with the neutral base (the
longest I've gone with any ink) and it's only about were the other inks are
at 100 hours.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia

2001-12-11 by ternahan

Paul,
Is this in incandescent light?
Thanks,
trish
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:22:58 -0800
> To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia
> 
> Jeff wrote:
> 
>> ... where does the tone of the Neutral tone in the Sepia
>> mix fall in to the tone choices of the current VM mix?
> 
> I'm shooting for dead neutral with EAM on my 1160 using the 1160's "warm"
> curve (least amount of toner).  For colder tones, LPM will make the print
> close to the NC curve.  However, for my 1160 and it's "warm" curve (which
> might be re-named "sepia neutral") the tone would be slightly warmer than
> the current "nc" curve.
> 
> The neutral base of the sepia-neutral inkset does warm, but less than and
> slower than the other inks.  That is one reason I'm not building in any
> coolness in anticipation of warming.  So, it will ultimately warm to a
> medium warm, but it'll take a long time to do it.  For example, at 100 hours
> in my fader, the neutral base warms less than half the amount of the MIS VM
> or other inks.  In fact, I'm at 900 hours now with the neutral base (the
> longest I've gone with any ink) and it's only about were the other inks are
> at 100 hours.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia

2001-12-11 by Paul Roark

Trish wrote:

>Is this in incandescent light?

No, it's a fluorescent light fader I use.  The strong UV accelerates the
problems substantially.  I don't try to relate the time in the fader to real
world display time.  All I'm interested in doing is making improvements in
the inks over what we currently have.  So, this give me a relative
performance result that does seem to relate to real world display, but there
is a huge time difference.

Paul

____________________________

> From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:22:58 -0800
> To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia
>
> Jeff wrote:
>
>> ... where does the tone of the Neutral tone in the Sepia
>> mix fall in to the tone choices of the current VM mix?
>
> I'm shooting for dead neutral with EAM on my 1160 using the 1160's "warm"
> curve (least amount of toner).  For colder tones, LPM will make the print
> close to the NC curve.  However, for my 1160 and it's "warm" curve (which
> might be re-named "sepia neutral") the tone would be slightly warmer than
> the current "nc" curve.
>
> The neutral base of the sepia-neutral inkset does warm, but less than and
> slower than the other inks.  That is one reason I'm not building in any
> coolness in anticipation of warming.  So, it will ultimately warm to a
> medium warm, but it'll take a long time to do it.  For example, at 100
hours
> in my fader, the neutral base warms less than half the amount of the MIS
VM
> or other inks.  In fact, I'm at 900 hours now with the neutral base (the
> longest I've gone with any ink) and it's only about were the other inks
are
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> at 100 hours.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia

2001-12-11 by ternahan

Sorry, I didn't make that clear...how is the tone when viewed under
incandescent light...i.e. indoors? How different is it when seen
outdoors...i am referring to the "faded print"..
Metemerism...have you done tests of the various inks looking at this factor
alone?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:42:58 -0800
> To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia
> 
> Trish wrote:
> 
>> Is this in incandescent light?
> 
> No, it's a fluorescent light fader I use.  The strong UV accelerates the
> problems substantially.  I don't try to relate the time in the fader to real
> world display time.  All I'm interested in doing is making improvements in
> the inks over what we currently have.  So, this give me a relative
> performance result that does seem to relate to real world display, but there
> is a huge time difference.
> 
> Paul
> 
> ____________________________
> 
>> From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
>> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:22:58 -0800
>> To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia
>> 
>> Jeff wrote:
>> 
>>> ... where does the tone of the Neutral tone in the Sepia
>>> mix fall in to the tone choices of the current VM mix?
>> 
>> I'm shooting for dead neutral with EAM on my 1160 using the 1160's "warm"
>> curve (least amount of toner).  For colder tones, LPM will make the print
>> close to the NC curve.  However, for my 1160 and it's "warm" curve (which
>> might be re-named "sepia neutral") the tone would be slightly warmer than
>> the current "nc" curve.
>> 
>> The neutral base of the sepia-neutral inkset does warm, but less than and
>> slower than the other inks.  That is one reason I'm not building in any
>> coolness in anticipation of warming.  So, it will ultimately warm to a
>> medium warm, but it'll take a long time to do it.  For example, at 100
> hours
>> in my fader, the neutral base warms less than half the amount of the MIS
> VM
>> or other inks.  In fact, I'm at 900 hours now with the neutral base (the
>> longest I've gone with any ink) and it's only about were the other inks
> are
>> at 100 hours.
>> 
>> Paul
>> http://www.PaulRoark.com
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

[Digital BW] Re: 4Paul: Sepia

2001-12-12 by culturalvisions

Thanks Paul,  

This is great news for the VM crowd.  I'll baby along the last of my
4oz bottles of your very fine warm to cool set in preparation for your
new sepia oriented ink mix.

Sorry to hear that your 1160 went down.  Our 1160's are rare beasts
these days and worth maintaining as long as Epson is willing.

Frank

http://www.culturalvisions.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Frank,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >...  I appreciate the VM system, but hardly ever use the cool choices.
> >...I would be much happier
> >with that fourth cartridge filled with a warming pigment.
> 
> That seems to be the reaction of a lot of people -- I think myself
included.
> The very cold tones were an interesting novelty, but I think most have
> gravitated to neutral or warm tones.  I'm getting very positive
results and
> comments from the sepia-tone prints I'm starting to experiment with.
> 
> So, the sepia-to-neutral range seems like it is going to cover a
very useful
> range.  Frankly, the MIS VM was an easy way to get a cool/neutral
print, and
> there are some who really like the very cold tones.  I think there
is room
> for two versions of the system.  This sepia-neutral range is much
more work
> to mix, and MIS doesn't want its inventory to get out of control. 
However,
> I think they'll pre-mix it.
> 
> So, I'd say in a couple of weeks it should be out.  I've given MIS
what I
> believe is the final formula for the sepia-to-neutral inkset, but I
suspect
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> they'll wait until I can do some final testing.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

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