Digital BW, The Print

Helo.
I'm using the epson 890 spongeless cart with GP MIS inks. It have been 
a disaster. I spent 2oz bottes of ink and I don't have any print. 
Belive me. I don't get any good nozzle print in a month of work. I 
follow the MIS instructions and list advices, now I don't know what to 
do.....
I think that those cart are no well designed.
It is only my opinion...

Most of us are having very good luck with the spongeless carts in 1280
& 890. I have both spongeless K & color carts in my 1280 but only use
the spongeless K cart in my 890. 

Can you state specifically what your problems are? What differences do
you see from the conventional carts? Is the ONLY difference in your
workflow changing the conventional carts with the same ink for the
spongeless ones?

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ep21002100"
<ep21002100@y...> wrote:

> Helo.
> I'm using the epson 890 spongeless cart with GP MIS inks. It have been 
> a disaster. I spent 2oz bottes of ink and I don't have any print. 
> Belive me. I don't get any good nozzle print in a month of work. I 
> follow the MIS instructions and list advices, now I don't know what to 
> do.....
> I think that those cart are no well designed.
> It is only my opinion...

I was using original epson inks (it works well)and change theses for 
the MIS GP (eboni K and Universal K) and refill the carts following 
the MIS instructions but I could not get any print, always my nozzles 
has gaps. I let the print rest for some days and no luck. I take of 
all the inks for the carts, clean with windex and plain water to 
clean a possible foam in the damper and refill again, but no luck.
I get all the possible problems, air, dripping inks,  banding 
issues...etc.
I see also a possible desing problems of those carts. Take a look to 
this image of the clamps
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8690/890metalonhole2dz.jpg
I make a pinhole directly underneath the ventillation hole in the 
cellafane cover, but the banding issues is still there
So...



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Michaels" 
<bob@b...> wrote:
> Most of us are having very good luck with the spongeless carts in 
1280
> & 890. I have both spongeless K & color carts in my 1280 but only 
use
> the spongeless K cart in my 890. 
> 
> Can you state specifically what your problems are? What differences 
do
> you see from the conventional carts? Is the ONLY difference in your
> workflow changing the conventional carts with the same ink for the
> spongeless ones?
> 
> Bob Michaels
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ep21002100"
> <ep21002100@y...> wrote:
> > Helo.
> > I'm using the epson 890 spongeless cart with GP MIS inks. It have 
been 
> > a disaster. I spent 2oz bottes of ink and I don't have any print. 
> > Belive me. I don't get any good nozzle print in a month of work. 
I 
> > follow the MIS instructions and list advices, now I don't know 
what to 

> > do.....
> > I think that those cart are no well designed.
> > It is only my opinion...

I'm not sure what the MIS instructions say, so this may be redundant, and
I'm admittedly guessing as to what might cause these problems.

First, if the OEM dyes have been in the printer, rinse the parking pad.  The
dyes will interact with Eboni to make clumps that then stick onto the bottom
of the head (or so it seems).

Second, an old dye printer might work great with dyes but have problems with
pigments.  The screens in the head may be partially blocked.  I let my 7600
sit with cleaning fluid in it for more than a week.  The fluid appeared to
slowly dissolve away the problems, and the printer has not had problems
since.

Third, be sure to prime the carts if they were loaded from the top.

Good luck.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> ep21002100
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:22 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS Spongeless Carts Disaster
> 
> I was using original epson inks (it works well)and change theses for
> the MIS GP (eboni K and Universal K) and refill the carts following
> the MIS instructions but I could not get any print, always my nozzles
> has gaps. I let the print rest for some days and no luck. I take of
> all the inks for the carts, clean with windex and plain water to
> clean a possible foam in the damper and refill again, but no luck.
> I get all the possible problems, air, dripping inks,  banding
> issues...etc.
> I see also a possible desing problems of those carts. Take a look to
> this image of the clamps
> http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8690/890metalonhole2dz.jpg
> I make a pinhole directly underneath the ventillation hole in the
> cellafane cover, but the banding issues is still there
> So...
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Michaels"
> <bob@b...> wrote:
> > Most of us are having very good luck with the spongeless carts in
> 1280
> > & 890. I have both spongeless K & color carts in my 1280 but only
> use
> > the spongeless K cart in my 890.
> >
> > Can you state specifically what your problems are? What differences
> do
> > you see from the conventional carts? Is the ONLY difference in your
> > workflow changing the conventional carts with the same ink for the
> > spongeless ones?
> >
> > Bob Michaels
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ep21002100"
> > <ep21002100@y...> wrote:
> > > Helo.
> > > I'm using the epson 890 spongeless cart with GP MIS inks. It have
> been
> > > a disaster. I spent 2oz bottes of ink and I don't have any print.
> > > Belive me. I don't get any good nozzle print in a month of work.
> I
> > > follow the MIS instructions and list advices, now I don't know
> what to
> > > do.....
> > > I think that those cart are no well designed.
> > > It is only my opinion...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Thanks to all.
I will try yours advices


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I'm not sure what the MIS instructions say, so this may be 
redundant, and
> I'm admittedly guessing as to what might cause these problems.
> 
> First, if the OEM dyes have been in the printer, rinse the parking 
pad.  The
> dyes will interact with Eboni to make clumps that then stick onto 
the bottom
> of the head (or so it seems).
> 
> Second, an old dye printer might work great with dyes but have 
problems with
> pigments.  The screens in the head may be partially blocked.  I let 
my 7600
> sit with cleaning fluid in it for more than a week.  The fluid 
appeared to
> slowly dissolve away the problems, and the printer has not had 
problems
> since.
> 
> Third, be sure to prime the carts if they were loaded from the top.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > ep21002100
> > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:22 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS Spongeless Carts Disaster
> > 
> > I was using original epson inks (it works well)and change theses 
for
> > the MIS GP (eboni K and Universal K) and refill the carts 
following
> > the MIS instructions but I could not get any print, always my 
nozzles
> > has gaps. I let the print rest for some days and no luck. I take 
of
> > all the inks for the carts, clean with windex and plain water to
> > clean a possible foam in the damper and refill again, but no luck.
> > I get all the possible problems, air, dripping inks,  banding
> > issues...etc.
> > I see also a possible desing problems of those carts. Take a look 
to
> > this image of the clamps
> > http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8690/890metalonhole2dz.jpg
> > I make a pinhole directly underneath the ventillation hole in the
> > cellafane cover, but the banding issues is still there
> > So...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob 
Michaels"
> > <bob@b...> wrote:
> > > Most of us are having very good luck with the spongeless carts 
in
> > 1280
> > > & 890. I have both spongeless K & color carts in my 1280 but 
only
> > use
> > > the spongeless K cart in my 890.
> > >
> > > Can you state specifically what your problems are? What 
differences
> > do
> > > you see from the conventional carts? Is the ONLY difference in 
your
> > > workflow changing the conventional carts with the same ink for 
the
> > > spongeless ones?
> > >
> > > Bob Michaels
> > >
> > > --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ep21002100"
> > > <ep21002100@y...> wrote:
> > > > Helo.
> > > > I'm using the epson 890 spongeless cart with GP MIS inks. It 
have
> > been
> > > > a disaster. I spent 2oz bottes of ink and I don't have any 
print.
> > > > Belive me. I don't get any good nozzle print in a month of 
work.
> > I
> > > > follow the MIS instructions and list advices, now I don't know
> > what to
> > > > do.....
> > > > I think that those cart are no well designed.
> > > > It is only my opinion...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL 
OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS 
OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
HAVE BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; 
(ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE

> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >

I think it is very important to swap the carts you think have problems
with others such a real Epson carts. That will tell you if the problem
is in the carts or the print head. You have to determine which is the
problem before you know how to solve it. 

Following on Paul's comments:

1) I have not experienced the Eboni / dye conflict causing clogs. In
fact I frequently use my 890 with Eboni printing BO and MIS $5 color
carts. But possibly the difference is Epson dye vs the cheap generic
dye from MIS (which is excellent ink BTW)

2) The problems of well used 1280's & 890's still working well with
dye but having clogging problems with pigment inks seems common. I
finally got frustrated with a 2+ year old 1280 and replaced it. A
friend is still happy using my old 1280 with dye and I've been happy
for more than a year using pigment in the replacement. But it seems
you can clean them up. Wish I'd known. 

3) The priming of the spongeless carts is critical. With priming they
frequently work perfectly the first time. Without priming, they are a
bear to get to work well. 

My opinion is that our demanding perfection using pigment ink in a
1280 or 890 pushes the printer well beyond it's original design spec.
They can be a good low cost workhorse delivering great prints. But
they are not zero maintenance in this application and  sometimes
require a bit of tweaking. This seems to be more art than science.
Everybody has their own techniques. None are wrong, they're just
different. 

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I'm not sure what the MIS instructions say, so this may be
redundant, and
> I'm admittedly guessing as to what might cause these problems.
> 
> First, if the OEM dyes have been in the printer, rinse the parking
pad.  The
> dyes will interact with Eboni to make clumps that then stick onto
the bottom
> of the head (or so it seems).
> 
> Second, an old dye printer might work great with dyes but have
problems with
> pigments.  The screens in the head may be partially blocked.  I let
my 7600
> sit with cleaning fluid in it for more than a week.  The fluid
appeared to

> slowly dissolve away the problems, and the printer has not had problems
> since.
> 
> Third, be sure to prime the carts if they were loaded from the top.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > ep21002100
> > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:22 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS Spongeless Carts Disaster
> > 
> > I was using original epson inks (it works well)and change theses for
> > the MIS GP (eboni K and Universal K) and refill the carts following
> > the MIS instructions but I could not get any print, always my nozzles
> > has gaps. I let the print rest for some days and no luck. I take of
> > all the inks for the carts, clean with windex and plain water to
> > clean a possible foam in the damper and refill again, but no luck.
> > I get all the possible problems, air, dripping inks,  banding
> > issues...etc.
> > I see also a possible desing problems of those carts. Take a look to
> > this image of the clamps
> > http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8690/890metalonhole2dz.jpg
> > I make a pinhole directly underneath the ventillation hole in the
> > cellafane cover, but the banding issues is still there
> > So...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Michaels"
> > <bob@b...> wrote:
> > > Most of us are having very good luck with the spongeless carts in
> > 1280
> > > & 890. I have both spongeless K & color carts in my 1280 but only
> > use
> > > the spongeless K cart in my 890.
> > >
> > > Can you state specifically what your problems are? What differences
> > do
> > > you see from the conventional carts? Is the ONLY difference in your
> > > workflow changing the conventional carts with the same ink for the
> > > spongeless ones?
> > >
> > > Bob Michaels
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ep21002100"
> > > <ep21002100@y...> wrote:
> > > > Helo.
> > > > I'm using the epson 890 spongeless cart with GP MIS inks. It have
> > been
> > > > a disaster. I spent 2oz bottes of ink and I don't have any print.
> > > > Belive me. I don't get any good nozzle print in a month of work.
> > I
> > > > follow the MIS instructions and list advices, now I don't know
> > what to
> > > > do.....
> > > > I think that those cart are no well designed.
> > > > It is only my opinion...

>...
> 2) The problems of well used 1280's & 890's still working well with
> dye but having clogging problems with pigment inks seems common...

With older machines, I think the screens are partially clogged, allowing
thin dyes (and cleaning fluid) through, but not pigments.  I recommend
putting MIS cleaning fluid carts in the printers for a week or more.  Run a
cleaning cycle about once a day and print a few purge patterns daily, but
basically, just let the fluid try to dissolve away the old ink on the
screens.  It sometimes works.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> thin dyes (and cleaning fluid) through, but not pigments.  I recommend
> putting MIS cleaning fluid carts in the printers for a week or more.  
Run a
> cleaning cycle about once a day and print a few purge patterns daily, 
but
> basically, just let the fluid try to dissolve away the old ink on the
> screens.  It sometimes works.

Hi Paul. Thanks for all your advices.

I visited the MIS site and I'm unsure of the link for the MIS cleaning 
fluid you are talking about. I Should be very grateful if you could 
tell me if is this: 
ESC-BASEPT-UC -
CLEANING SOLUTION (CLEAR BASE STOCK) FOR ALL MIS INKS AND ULTRATONE - 
PINT BOTTLE

Thanks again

That sounds like the stuff. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> ep21002100
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:37 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS Spongeless Carts Disaster
> 
> > thin dyes (and cleaning fluid) through, but not pigments.  I recommend
> > putting MIS cleaning fluid carts in the printers for a week or more.
> Run a
> > cleaning cycle about once a day and print a few purge patterns daily,
> but
> > basically, just let the fluid try to dissolve away the old ink on the
> > screens.  It sometimes works.
> 
> Hi Paul. Thanks for all your advices.
> 
> I visited the MIS site and I'm unsure of the link for the MIS cleaning
> fluid you are talking about. I Should be very grateful if you could
> tell me if is this:
> ESC-BASEPT-UC -
> CLEANING SOLUTION (CLEAR BASE STOCK) FOR ALL MIS INKS AND ULTRATONE -
> PINT BOTTLE
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>