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Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-05 by Bob Frost

Ukko,

I was also surprised by these comments. I posted some i1/Measuretool 
readings of a 21pt grayscale printed on the R2400 with the default 
Neutral/Darker setting - on Premium Glossy. Here they are again.


1      94.21    -0.20    -3.60
2      89.45    -0.02    -3.20
3      84.62    -0.01    -2.88
4      80.46    -0.03    -2.68
5      75.57    -0.07    -2.89
6      70.99    -0.35    -2.68
7      66.51    -0.10    -2.14
8      61.72    -0.30    -2.01
9      57.06    -0.53    -1.93
10    52.32    -0.44    -1.95
11    48.09    -0.49    -1.63
12    43.16    -0.58    -1.62
13    37.83    -0.36    -1.14
14    32.26    -0.40    -0.94
15    27.61    -0.41    -0.65
16    22.82    -0.27    -0.43
17    17.83    -0.18    -0.39
18    13.03     0.03    -0.35
19      8.57     0.21    -0.03
20      5.52     0.04     0.18
21      2.93    -0.07    -0.33

As far as I can see, the only 'color' is due to the cool color of the paper 
(Premium Glossy) progressively showing through the ink as the ink load gets 
less and lighter (1 is 255/255/255 with no ink, so just the color of the 
paper). Can other people see color changes with the more or less random 
variations in 'a' readings from -0.58 to +0.21?

Bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ukko Heikkinen" <ukko.heikkinen@...>


Hello everybody

I am baffled.

Some of you have reported that there seems to be some "coloration" in their 
Epson 2400 B&W prints.

I have never seen any in mine.

Just to be sure, I just scanned a  Advanced B&W Mode "Warm" print on Epson 
Premium Glossy (Epson 4870, Vuescan, 600 DPI, Color Photo). It is dead 
neutral even at a magnification of  600 per cent.

Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-05 by Scott Jones

I was somewhat confused by the last posts on "coloration" on the 
Epson r2400 ABW prints. One poster noted that he printed an image on 
the Warm setting and got a neutral print. Perhaps by "neutral" he 
meant that there was no changing color cast or change from one color 
to another as you worked your way from darks to light, but by 
definition, the warm print has a warmer - dare I say it - yellower 
color tone to the whole image. Yes, smooth across the whole range of 
tones, but still warmish/yellowish.

Likewise, I have found the Nuetral/darker default setting to be 
slightly toward the green/blue and therefore have started printing 
with the adjustment wheel set at 3 horizontal and 3 vertical which 
to my eyes takes the chill off the default setting, but still does 
not look like a "warm" print. I use EPSG paper.

Therefore, there seems to always be a color tone to the B&W output. 
This is a good thing in that we can adjust to taste.

So after all of this, I am confused by the question and responses. 
Thanks for any further comments.

By the way, I just printed last night a version of a cherished 
darkroom print and I must say that it looks way more "neutral" than 
my selenium toned Ilford Multigrade version. This is an amazing 
printer.

Scott

Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-05 by bwbonkers

Hi Scott

Interesting to see that you see a colour cast on the default ABW 
settings. I'm using Ilford Smooth Pearl, and on the default settings, 
with the exception of tone set to 'dark', the prints look ever so 
slightly green !! After much experimenting I've settled on +10 
Horizontal, -5 vertical, to remove this cast. 

What I do not understand is why the three black inks cannot produce a 
neutral tone on their own. Carl in an email to me mention that the 
three K3 blacks on their own using a RIP produced an ugly greenish 
print. So as you say colour ink needs to be used to remove this.

I can see what Clayton is saying. I tried BO printing and they do 
have something pure about them. However those dots drove me mad, and 
I like for my sins RC papers, like Ilford Pearl. My matte prints 
always looked a little flat to me.

It will be interesting to see what people say about the new Piezo 7 
neutral inks.

Regards Peter.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Jones" 
<peanutdogs@h...> wrote:
> I was somewhat confused by the last posts on "coloration" on the 
> Epson r2400 ABW prints. One poster noted that he printed an image 
on 
> the Warm setting and got a neutral print. Perhaps by "neutral" he 
> meant that there was no changing color cast or change from one 
color 
> to another as you worked your way from darks to light, but by 
> definition, the warm print has a warmer - dare I say it - yellower 
> color tone to the whole image. Yes, smooth across the whole range 
of 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> tones, but still warmish/yellowish.
> 
> Likewise, I have found the Nuetral/darker default setting to be 
> slightly toward the green/blue and therefore have started printing 
> with the adjustment wheel set at 3 horizontal and 3 vertical which 
> to my eyes takes the chill off the default setting, but still does 
> not look like a "warm" print. I use EPSG paper.
> 
> Therefore, there seems to always be a color tone to the B&W output. 
> This is a good thing in that we can adjust to taste.
> 
> So after all of this, I am confused by the question and responses. 
> Thanks for any further comments.
> 
> By the way, I just printed last night a version of a cherished 
> darkroom print and I must say that it looks way more "neutral" than 
> my selenium toned Ilford Multigrade version. This is an amazing 
> printer.
> 
> Scott

Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-05 by Ukko Heikkinen

Paul Roark wrote:

> If your test strips do not have dots, then I wonder what the differences
> are.  Is it possible the 2400 and 4800 use different printing algorithms?

Hello Paul

My print does not have any dots like your strip shows. Therefore I am baffled.

Ukko Heikkinen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-05 by Paul Roark

It looks like I need some test strips from a 2400 using ABW mode.  Any
volunteers who are conveniently located?

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ukko
> Heikkinen
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 8:50 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration
> 
> Paul Roark wrote:
> 
> > If your test strips do not have dots, then I wonder what the differences
> > are.  Is it possible the 2400 and 4800 use different printing
> algorithms?
> 
> Hello Paul
> 
> My print does not have any dots like your strip shows. Therefore I am
> baffled.
> 
> Ukko Heikkinen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-05 by wwodets

I'd be happy to mail some from California.  Out for the day, home 
this evening.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> It looks like I need some test strips from a 2400 using ABW mode.  
Any
> volunteers who are conveniently located?
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Ukko
> > Heikkinen
> > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 8:50 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration
> > 
> > Paul Roark wrote:
> > 
> > > If your test strips do not have dots, then I wonder what the 
differences
> > > are.  Is it possible the 2400 and 4800 use different printing
> > algorithms?
> > 
> > Hello Paul
> > 
> > My print does not have any dots like your strip shows. Therefore 
I am
> > baffled.
> > 
> > Ukko Heikkinen
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner
> > and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the 
Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER 
AND
> > MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL 
OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS 
OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE
> > OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
HAVE BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; 
(ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >

RE: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-05 by Paul Roark

Thanks, that would be very useful.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wwodets
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 9:37 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration
> 
> I'd be happy to mail some from California.  Out for the day, home
> this evening.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > It looks like I need some test strips from a 2400 using ABW mode.
> Any
> > volunteers who are conveniently located?
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Ukko
> > > Heikkinen
> > > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 8:50 AM
> > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration
> > >
> > > Paul Roark wrote:
> > >
> > > > If your test strips do not have dots, then I wonder what the
> differences
> > > > are.  Is it possible the 2400 and 4800 use different printing
> > > algorithms?
> > >
> > > Hello Paul
> > >
> > > My print does not have any dots like your strip shows. Therefore
> I am
> > > baffled.
> > >
> > > Ukko Heikkinen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> resources as
> > > they are often being updated.
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> wish to
> > > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
> this same
> > > page.
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
> messages to keep
> > > them short.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> flames.
> > > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > > membership without notice.
> > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
> digital B&W
> > > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> removed from
> > > the membership.
> > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules
> and
> > > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the
> group Owner
> > > and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the
> Files
> > > section:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > >
> > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT
> > > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER
> AND
> > > MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
> LIABLE TO
> > > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL
> OR
> > > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS
> OF
> > > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF
> THE
> > > OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
> HAVE BEEN
> > > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)
> THE USE
> > > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP;
> (ii)
> > > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR
> DATA; (iii)
> > > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT
> > > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE
> > > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-05 by douglas meeuwsen

Paul....ukko must be looking at strips that are not very enlarged. On 
my 2400, in ABW mode, I can see the colored dots clearly with an 8x 
loupe. In the highlights, it actully appears to be ONLY light cyan and 
yellow dots. Either that or they are the only dots visible at that 
magnification.....Doug M


On Aug 5, 2005, at 10:28 AM, Paul Roark wrote:

> It looks like I need some test strips from a 2400 using ABW mode.  Any
>  volunteers who are conveniently located?
>
>  Paul
>  www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>  > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Ukko
>  > Heikkinen
>  > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 8:50 AM
>  > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>  > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration
>  >
>  > Paul Roark wrote:
>  >
>  > > If your test strips do not have dots, then I wonder what the 
> differences
>  > > are.  Is it possible the 2400 and 4800 use different printing
>  > algorithms?
>  >
>  > Hello Paul
>  >
>  > My print does not have any dots like your strip shows. Therefore I 
> am
>  > baffled.
>  >
>  > Ukko Heikkinen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-05 by Ukko Heikkinen

douglas meeuwsen wrote:

> Paul....ukko must be looking at strips that are not very enlarged

I looked at it at a magnification of  600 per cent..

Ukko Heikkinen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-05 by Paul Roark

Is there a paper type or printer setting that is making different results?

The 4800 samples I have were MK on Epson Archival Matte (which I think is
the same as EEM).

Is there a "warm" setting that can give a K3 only print -- like a BO+ mode?


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ukko
> Heikkinen
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:39 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration
> 
> douglas meeuwsen wrote:
> 
> > Paul....ukko must be looking at strips that are not very enlarged
> 
> I looked at it at a magnification of  600 per cent..
> 
> Ukko Heikkinen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-06 by wwodets

Ditto ditto.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, douglas meeuwsen 
<lipshurt@m...> wrote:
> Paul....ukko must be looking at strips that are not very enlarged. 
On 
> my 2400, in ABW mode, I can see the colored dots clearly with an 8x 
> loupe. In the highlights, it actully appears to be ONLY light cyan 
and 
> yellow dots. Either that or they are the only dots visible at that 
> magnification.....Doug M
> 
> 
> On Aug 5, 2005, at 10:28 AM, Paul Roark wrote:
> 
> > It looks like I need some test strips from a 2400 using ABW 
mode.  Any
> >  volunteers who are conveniently located?
> >
> >  Paul
> >  www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >
> >  > -----Original Message-----
> >  > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >  > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf Of 
> > Ukko
> >  > Heikkinen
> >  > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 8:50 AM
> >  > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >  > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration
> >  >
> >  > Paul Roark wrote:
> >  >
> >  > > If your test strips do not have dots, then I wonder what the 
> > differences
> >  > > are.  Is it possible the 2400 and 4800 use different printing
> >  > algorithms?
> >  >
> >  > Hello Paul
> >  >
> >  > My print does not have any dots like your strip shows. 
Therefore I 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > am
> >  > baffled.
> >  >
> >  > Ukko Heikkinen
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-06 by john dean

I have a microscope.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets"
<odets@c...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Ditto ditto.
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, douglas meeuwsen 
> <lipshurt@m...> wrote:
> > Paul....ukko must be looking at strips that are not very enlarged. 
> On 
> > my 2400, in ABW mode, I can see the colored dots clearly with an 8x 
> > loupe. In the highlights, it actully appears to be ONLY light cyan 
> and 
> > yellow dots. Either that or they are the only dots visible at that 
> > magnification.....Doug M
> > 
> > 
> > On Aug 5, 2005, at 10:28 AM, Paul Roark wrote:
> > 
> > > It looks like I need some test strips from a 2400 using ABW 
> mode.  Any
> > >  volunteers who are conveniently located?
> > >
> > >  Paul
> > >  www.PaulRoark.com
> > >
> > >
> > >  > -----Original Message-----
> > >  > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > >  > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of 
> > > Ukko
> > >  > Heikkinen
> > >  > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 8:50 AM
> > >  > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > >  > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration
> > >  >
> > >  > Paul Roark wrote:
> > >  >
> > >  > > If your test strips do not have dots, then I wonder what the 
> > > differences
> > >  > > are.  Is it possible the 2400 and 4800 use different printing
> > >  > algorithms?
> > >  >
> > >  > Hello Paul
> > >  >
> > >  > My print does not have any dots like your strip shows. 
> Therefore I 
> > > am
> > >  > baffled.
> > >  >
> > >  > Ukko Heikkinen
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: 2400 B&W - Paul

2005-08-06 by Clayton Jones

Hello Paul,

>Is there a "warm" setting that can give a K3 only print -- like 
>a BO+ mode?

Someone sent me some 4800 prints using PK ink on various glossy type
papers and also on EEM.  One of them on EEM he called "BO" but didn't
explain.  With my 8x loupe I could not see any color dots (and could
see them clearly on the ABW prints).  It was extremely smooth and
looked like it was using the three blacks.  Other than the lower dmax
(PK on EEM) it was very impressive.

From that I assumed the 2400 would also have this setting and was
eager to try a 2400 with MK.  I was disappointed that I could not find
that setting during the few minutes I had with the 2400 in the store. 
 
Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: [Digital BW] 2400 B&W And Coloration

2005-08-06 by Bob Frost

Peter,

> Interesting to see that you see a colour cast on the default ABW
> settings. I'm using Ilford Smooth Pearl, and on the default settings,
> with the exception of tone set to 'dark', the prints look ever so
> slightly green !! After much experimenting I've settled on +10
> Horizontal, -5 vertical, to remove this cast.

It doesn't surprise me that printing on Ilford Smooth Pearl gives a
different result to printing on Epson papers. The settings in the
AdvancedB&W mode were designed for Epson papers; if you use other papers you
will have to work out your own settings. I seem to remember someone recently
(Paul?) saying that Eboni black gave different colors on different papers.

> What I do not understand is why the three black inks cannot produce a
> neutral tone on their own. Carl in an email to me mention that the
> three K3 blacks on their own using a RIP produced an ugly greenish
> print. So as you say colour ink needs to be used to remove this.

As to why the three black inks don't produce neutral tones on their own,
surely this is because most 'black' inks are not truly black.
Being truly 'black' implies that the pigment does not reflect any light - it
must absorb it all. Most do not. So they need other colors mixed in the ink 
or on the paper to fool our eyes into believing they are neutral.

Bob Frost.


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From: "bwbonkers" <PeterDLevis@...>

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