Digital BW, The Print

There is one more thought I just had before ending the day. I just
walked by a print that I did about 3 years ago on a metallic paper
that a low end paper company, Red River, makes. It is an inkjet coated
metallic media that comes in silver and gold used I assume for
greeting cards and such. I did a few monochrome things on it with the
Lyson Quads and they have held up surprisingly well, when sprayed, for
over 3 years in daylight with no glass. They look sort of like
daguerreotypes and have alot of potential but since I assumed the
worst about their longevity, I moved on and never sold anything on it.

Actually this could be a very interesting approach to the
inkjet/metallic fusion, just incorporate the metal in the media itself
not in the inkset. It seems to me that Kodak even has a type c paper
out now that does that and there are numerous offset papers that have
some degree of metallic content. It makes me wonder why someone hasn't
seriously tried this for piezzo papers. We could do some unbeliveable
things adding hues from the standard inksets to this mix.

John wrote:

> ... I just walked by a print that I did about 3 years ago 
> on a metallic paper ...

I didn't follow the details, but the aluminum mounting thread got me
thinking how interesting a B&W would look on a brushed metallic substrate.
The metallic paper sounds intriguing.

Although I don't think I'd like the finish, the thought of a Pictorico clear
base printed flipped and laminated carbon down to the metallic base sounded
like a glossy version.

On a tangent, I tested a Permajet spray that gives glossy paper a semi-matte
finish with very good, 2+ dmax.  It might be a contender.  I haven't seen if
it'll take the plastic look away from a laminated print or the like.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> that a low end paper company, Red River, makes. It is an inkjet coated
> metallic media that comes in silver and gold used I assume for
> greeting cards and such. I did a few monochrome things on it with the
> Lyson Quads and they have held up surprisingly well, when sprayed, for
> over 3 years in daylight with no glass. They look sort of like
> daguerreotypes and have alot of potential but since I assumed the
> worst about their longevity, I moved on and never sold anything on it.
> 
> Actually this could be a very interesting approach to the
> inkjet/metallic fusion, just incorporate the metal in the media itself
> not in the inkset. It seems to me that Kodak even has a type c paper
> out now that does that and there are numerous offset papers that have
> some degree of metallic content. It makes me wonder why someone hasn't
> seriously tried this for piezzo papers. We could do some unbeliveable
> things adding hues from the standard inksets to this mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Paul,

I think you may have something there. If you haven't fooled around
with that Red River material you might try it, its cheap. It could
very well give you some ideas. The only problem is I used the Lyson
dyes on it and I don't know if pigments would work on it or not,
possibly. What is interesting about this type of media is how it
changes its look depending on what angle you view it from. As in 19th
century metal prints.





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> John wrote:
> 
> > ... I just walked by a print that I did about 3 years ago 
> > on a metallic paper ...
> 
> I didn't follow the details, but the aluminum mounting thread got me
> thinking how interesting a B&W would look on a brushed metallic
substrate.
> The metallic paper sounds intriguing.
> 
> Although I don't think I'd like the finish, the thought of a
Pictorico clear
> base printed flipped and laminated carbon down to the metallic base
sounded
> like a glossy version.
> 
> On a tangent, I tested a Permajet spray that gives glossy paper a
semi-matte
> finish with very good, 2+ dmax.  It might be a contender.  I haven't
seen if
> it'll take the plastic look away from a laminated print or the like.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > that a low end paper company, Red River, makes. It is an inkjet coated
> > metallic media that comes in silver and gold used I assume for
> > greeting cards and such. I did a few monochrome things on it with the
> > Lyson Quads and they have held up surprisingly well, when sprayed, for
> > over 3 years in daylight with no glass. They look sort of like
> > daguerreotypes and have alot of potential but since I assumed the
> > worst about their longevity, I moved on and never sold anything on it.
> > 
> > Actually this could be a very interesting approach to the
> > inkjet/metallic fusion, just incorporate the metal in the media itself
> > not in the inkset. It seems to me that Kodak even has a type c paper
> > out now that does that and there are numerous offset papers that have
> > some degree of metallic content. It makes me wonder why someone hasn't
> > seriously tried this for piezzo papers. We could do some unbeliveable
> > things adding hues from the standard inksets to this mix.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE
BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR
DATA; (iii)

> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >

If my memory is correct, InkAid has a substance that can be applied 
to metal to make it receive inkjet inks. I've never had the 
chance/need to use it yet, so don't know if it works, or how well it 
works. You can get small sample sized bottles from Inkjetart. They 
also claim to have a clear coating that can be applied to things like 
Lexan sheets that might make some interesting prints.

Your description reminds me of some photographs I saw years ago in a 
local gallery.  Subjects were mostly USA rust belt industrial derelicts 
(buildings and/or machinery), but they were "printed" directly on 
aluminum or copper.  Fascinating images.  I had neither the money nor 
wall space to own one, and I think they needed pretty specific (and 
intense) lighting to show at their best, but I'll never forget them.  It 
could be very interesting if it proved to be possible to do something 
like that in inkjet (I even have Lyson Quads in one of my printers.)

Cheers,
Kip

john dean wrote:

>There is one more thought I just had before ending the day. I just
>walked by a print that I did about 3 years ago on a metallic paper
>that a low end paper company, Red River, makes. It is an inkjet coated
>metallic media that comes in silver and gold used I assume for
>greeting cards and such. I did a few monochrome things on it with the
>Lyson Quads and they have held up surprisingly well, when sprayed, for
>over 3 years in daylight with no glass. They look sort of like
>daguerreotypes and have alot of potential but since I assumed the
>worst about their longevity, I moved on and never sold anything on it.
>
>Actually this could be a very interesting approach to the
>inkjet/metallic fusion, just incorporate the metal in the media itself
>not in the inkset. It seems to me that Kodak even has a type c paper
>out now that does that and there are numerous offset papers that have
>some degree of metallic content. It makes me wonder why someone hasn't
>seriously tried this for piezzo papers. We could do some unbeliveable
>things adding hues from the standard inksets to this mix. 
>
>  
>

Paul Roark wrote:

>John wrote:
>
>  
>
>>... I just walked by a print that I did about 3 years ago 
>>on a metallic paper ...
>>    
>>
>
>I didn't follow the details, but the aluminum mounting thread got me
>thinking how interesting a B&W would look on a brushed metallic substrate.
>The metallic paper sounds intriguing.
>
>Although I don't think I'd like the finish, the thought of a Pictorico clear
>base printed flipped and laminated carbon down to the metallic base sounded
>like a glossy version.
>
>On a tangent, I tested a Permajet spray that gives glossy paper a semi-matte
>finish with very good, 2+ dmax.  It might be a contender.  I haven't seen if
>it'll take the plastic look away from a laminated print or the like.
>
>Paul
>www.PaulRoark.com 
>  
>
Joseph Holmes had color prints on a translucent material mounted on bare 
aluminium skinned Alucobond (or Dibond, both Alusuisse (now Alcan) 
products) shown on last Photokina or the one before. Epson sponsered. 
Alucobond is sold in many colors and also just with the aluminium skin 
plates exposed. The aluminium treated though to reduce corrosion, 
varnish or anodised, I think the first. I think it was backlit material 
instead of transparent media as the metallic sheen wasn't strong but 
very nice.

BTW: Alusuisse used to send its customers calendars every year with 
mainly landscape photography that had the best Swiss or German offset 
printing possible on aluminium covered paper. My brother worked for 
Alusuisse till he retired about 2 years ago so I had my share of 
calendars. They did that for maybe twenty years or more. Often 
astonishing good sometimes a bit over the top when for example old 
paintings were reproduced that way.

The Joseph Holmes prints were more discrete in the use of the metal 
sheen and so very nice, the Alusuisse prints were sometimes a bit too 
metallic for the subject.

Ernst

Images can be silk-screened on or etched into metal. Brass, bronze, aluminum 
or stainless can be used. Some of the screens can be very fine, resembling 
photographic printing.

I was an architectural signage designer for many years and specified this 
process quite often. I still have several samples of the etching.

Gary

pbase.com/garyallenbrown

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ernst Dinkla" <E.Dinkla@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] metalic inkjet


Paul Roark wrote:

>John wrote:
>
>
>
>>... I just walked by a print that I did about 3 years ago
>>on a metallic paper ...
>>
>>
>
>I didn't follow the details, but the aluminum mounting thread got me
>thinking how interesting a B&W would look on a brushed metallic substrate.
>The metallic paper sounds intriguing.
>
>Although I don't think I'd like the finish, the thought of a Pictorico 
>clear
>base printed flipped and laminated carbon down to the metallic base sounded
>like a glossy version.
>
>On a tangent, I tested a Permajet spray that gives glossy paper a 
>semi-matte
>finish with very good, 2+ dmax.  It might be a contender.  I haven't seen 
>if
>it'll take the plastic look away from a laminated print or the like.
>
>Paul
>www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
Joseph Holmes had color prints on a translucent material mounted on bare
aluminium skinned Alucobond (or Dibond, both Alusuisse (now Alcan)
products) shown on last Photokina or the one before. Epson sponsered.
Alucobond is sold in many colors and also just with the aluminium skin
plates exposed. The aluminium treated though to reduce corrosion,
varnish or anodised, I think the first. I think it was backlit material
instead of transparent media as the metallic sheen wasn't strong but
very nice.

BTW: Alusuisse used to send its customers calendars every year with
mainly landscape photography that had the best Swiss or German offset
printing possible on aluminium covered paper. My brother worked for
Alusuisse till he retired about 2 years ago so I had my share of
calendars. They did that for maybe twenty years or more. Often
astonishing good sometimes a bit over the top when for example old
paintings were reproduced that way.

The Joseph Holmes prints were more discrete in the use of the metal
sheen and so very nice, the Alusuisse prints were sometimes a bit too
metallic for the subject.

Ernst



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links