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Re: Getting print contrast to match screen contrast with Epson C86 (or Defense A

Re: Getting print contrast to match screen contrast with Epson C86 (or Defense A

2005-08-07 by Robert

I'm having the exact same problems, and I believe that it's due to the
fact that there's only two shades of black/grey making up the image. 
You might try tinkering with the brightness setting in the Epson
driver so see if your midtones can be darkened.    

I'm using this as a test bed to see if I want to begin using the UT7
inks in my 2200 (and buying an 1800 for color).  I assume the UT7
setup is more sophisticated than the EZN inks.

Robert Ades

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Philip Glaser"
<glaserp@s...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am editing my black and white images (scanned from Tri-x negatives) in
> Photoshop v. 7 and printing them on an Epson C86 printer using the
EZ Tone
> Eboni black ink with Epson Enhanced Matte paper. The tonality of the
printed
> image does not match what I'm seeing on my monitor, which is an NEC
> MultiSync LCD 1850E, and am hoping folks here might be able to help
me with
> that.
> 
> I've taken a number of steps to calibrate my printing process, but the
> printed image is lighter, overall, than the image on screen: the
shadows are
> not as dark as they should be and the lighter tones are lighter than
they
> should be. I suspect that I'll have to cross the threshold into the Dark
> Arts of adjustment-curve editing (for which I would avail myself of Paul
> Roark's excellent instructions at
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Monotone_Curves.htm). Before I take
that step,
> however, I want to see if I've missed anything else in the process.
Here is
> the summary of what I have done so far:
> 
> 1) Using the Photoshop gamma utility, I've created a monitor profile and
> confirmed (right-click desktop->Settings->Advanced->Color
Management) that
> the profile is being used by my PC.
> 
> 2) Photoshop working settings are as follows:
>   - Image->Mode->Grayscale
>   - Image->Mode->Assign Profile->Don't Color Manage
>    -Edit->Color Settings->Working Spaces->RGB Mode->Adobe RGB (1998)
>    -Edit->Color Settings->Working Spaces->Gray->Gray Gamma 2.2
> 
> 3) In Photoshop, I created an Adjustment layer into which I loaded
Paul's
> C86-EZ-EEM-Con-15.acv, verified that it is the topmost layer and
that it is
> visible when I print.
> 
> 4) In C86 printer driver:
>    - Color Management is Gamma 2.2
>    - Brightness and Contrast sliders are both at 0
>    - Paper is Matte Heavy
>    - Print Options are Black Ink Only and Edge Smoothing
> 
> First of all, I want to clarify that I'm using the adjustment curve
> correctly. I've loaded C86-EZ-EEM-Con-15.acv into an adjustment
layer. When
> editing, I make the adjustment layer non-visible; when I print, I
make it
> visible. I gather that the printed result should look the same as
the result
> on screen when the adjustment layer is _not_ visible. Do I have this
part of
> things correctly?
> 
> If I do need to modify the curve, I have these questions:
> a) Should I start with the C86-EZ-EEM-Con-15.acv or is there some other
> curve I should be using?
> b) Which of the various step tablets (K156, K168, K180, K220, K240)
I should
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> be using for the C86/Eboni Black/Epson Enhanced Matte combination?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> --Phil

[Digital BW] Re: Getting print contrast to match screen contrast with Epson C86

2005-08-07 by Robert

Paul, what is your subjective opinion of the K3 inks vs. the UT7 inks
on matt paper?  Ignoring the obvious (K3 uses color whereas UT7 is
carbon black), how does the Dmax, the shadow detail and the tonality
compare on a neutral print?

Thanks,
Robert Ades

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> 
> 
> > I assume the UT7
> > setup is more sophisticated than the EZN inks.
> > ...
> 
> Yes, and UT2 in an R200 brings that to a $99 printer (with better
dmax).  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> (I'm not sure MIS is ready to market a package there yet.)
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Getting print contrast to match screen contrast with Epson C86

2005-08-07 by Paul Roark

Robert,
 
> Paul, what is your subjective opinion of the K3 inks vs. the UT7 inks
> on matt paper?  Ignoring the obvious (K3 uses color whereas UT7 is
> carbon black), how does the Dmax, the shadow detail and the tonality
> compare on a neutral print?

I have not done enough with the K3 inks to have a very solid opinion.  (A
2400 is in the mail to me now.)  I have 4800 test strips in the fader
currently, so I'll have some fade information in a few weeks.  I don't like
the idea of yellow and magenta pigments or color dots in the image, but the
4800 and 2400 prints I've seen are very good -- good dmax and ramp.  I like
the idea of controls in the driver, but I'm not sure about the details.  As
you might guess, I'm looking at a B&W inkset for the series.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I assume the UT7
> > > setup is more sophisticated than the EZN inks.
> > > ...
> >
> > Yes, and UT2 in an R200 brings that to a $99 printer (with better
> dmax).
> >
> > (I'm not sure MIS is ready to market a package there yet.)
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
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> 
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> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
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> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

[Digital BW] Re: Getting print contrast to match screen contrast with Epson C86

2005-08-08 by Robert

If a B&W inkset were developed for the 2400, would it be materially
different from the UT7 inks currently offered on the 2200?  Said
differently, if I were using your MIS inks on the 2400, would there be
any advantage over using the comparable inks on the 2200?

robert Ades


> 
> I have not done enough with the K3 inks to have a very solid
opinion.  (A
> 2400 is in the mail to me now.)  I have 4800 test strips in the fader
> currently, so I'll have some fade information in a few weeks.  I
don't like
> the idea of yellow and magenta pigments or color dots in the image,
but the
> 4800 and 2400 prints I've seen are very good -- good dmax and ramp.
 I like
> the idea of controls in the driver, but I'm not sure about the
details.  As
> you might guess, I'm looking at a B&W inkset for the series.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I assume the UT7
> > > > setup is more sophisticated than the EZN inks.
> > > > ...
> > >
> > > Yes, and UT2 in an R200 brings that to a $99 printer (with better
> > dmax).
> > >
> > > (I'm not sure MIS is ready to market a package there yet.)
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > www.PaulRoark.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE
BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR
DATA; (iii)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Getting print contrast to match screen contrast with Epson C86

2005-08-08 by Paul Roark

Robert,

> 
> If a B&W inkset were developed for the 2400, would it be materially
> different from the UT7 inks currently offered on the 2200?  Said
> differently, if I were using your MIS inks on the 2400, would there be
> any advantage over using the comparable inks on the 2200?

Since I have not actually made the inkset I have in mind, I can't promise
anything.  That said, yes, the 2400 is an advance, and I hope the B&W inkset
for it will also be an advance in some respects.  The inks themselves will
be the new Ultra Tone family, having the same lightfastness and other
characteristics as the other (new) UT inks.  The control that the 2400
allows is what I'm after. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Getting print contrast to match screen contrast with Epson C86

2005-08-10 by Philip Glaser

Hi Paul,

I wanted to get back to expiermenting with your suggestions and the new
curve sooner but may day job got in the way :-)

The L50 curve got me a lot closer. It seems that with this curve the darker
tones plateau sooner -- it's a shorter curve. In any case, I used the soft
proofing technique, along with the K156 step tablet, and got things much
closer. The print is now a tiny bit darker in highlights but overall it is
close enough for now. 

Unchecking the "black only" checkbox certainly changed things quite a bit,
too. I'm looking forward to not having to refill the black cartridge as
often . . . 

Many thanks for your hard work in making all these materials and your
expertise available to the group!

--Phil
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Paul Roark
> Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 5:36 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Getting print contrast to match 
> screen contrast with Epson C86
> 
> I've put a curve on the web at 
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/C86-curves.html
> that will print EEM in a C86 with a Lab L=50.  See how that 
> matches your monitors.  (Note the settings in the curve name.)
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
> preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group 
> Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
> THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> IF THE  OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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