Digital BW, The Print

This long thread has been very interesting. I have taken John's 
workshops and being thrilled by them, but I recently have been 
printing on my new R2400 with Epson Premium Semigloss. I am also 
currently enrolled in a workshop this weekend with Ryuijie and 
Martha Casanave. Both are excellent printers and know their 
traditional stuff.

When I presented my small portfolio for critique, I had one image 
mounted identically in two forms. An inkjet on EPSG using ABW on the 
R2400 and a silver gelatin print, selenium toned. These were NOT 
behind glass and were placed on the ledge of a school-room chalk 
board for viewing. Not one person in the workshop including the 
instructors could tell the difference between the two. A few people 
picked up the prints and held them at a severe angle to the light 
and made some guesses, often incorrect. Now I can tell the 
difference easlily because I have obsessed about the subtle 
difference in surface reflection (silver - creamy smooth and injet - 
slightly sparkly). But it became VERY clear to me that nobody else 
seemed to be able to tell. This included the instructors who stated 
that they really did not like anything digital. Also, AMAZINGLY, 
every one, after being presented with the novelty of two types of 
prints looking very much the same, wanted to talk about the content 
of the image!

Thought I would post this interesting experience with very 
sophisticated viewers. And the inkjet print was even on what some on 
this board call "that awful plasticy paper".

Are we just getting to the point where all of this is minutiae??

Cheers!

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Jones" 
<peanutdogs@h...> wrote:
> This long thread has been very interesting. <

We are quite lucky to live a new printing era, we can pick up any tech 
to fit our needs, and our needs change, go back and forth.
We can even mix the technologies with these digital enlargers (ex: 
Lightjet 5900) print a big digital file on to silver base papers.

All the best
Michel

Haven't tried it but I am very weary of their advertising.  They continue to
advertise Permajet Omega as optical brightener-free in their "new product
guide".

> From: Peter De Smidt <pdesmidt@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 09:11:25 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Permjet's Semi Gloss Fine Art Paper
> 
> Peter De Smidt wrote:
> 
>> Here's the blurb from their site:
>> 
>> Permajet have developed the World's first semi-gloss paper coating for
>> Fine Art papers. This unique semi-gloss sheen bursts forward with
>> unbelievable vibrancy when ink is applied. Suitable for dye and pigment
>> based inks, this is probably our best paper yet!
>> 
>> Has anyone tried it?
>> 
>>  
>> 
> Sorry, forgot the name. It's "Smooth Art Silk 300."
>

> > 
> >> Here's the blurb from their site:
> >> 
> >> Permajet have developed the World's first semi-gloss paper 
coating for
> >> Fine Art papers. This unique semi-gloss sheen bursts forward with
> >> unbelievable vibrancy when ink is applied. Suitable for dye and 
pigment
> >> based inks, this is probably our best paper yet!
> >> 

Sounds a lot like Photo Rag Satin.

Here's the blurb from their site:

Permajet have developed the World's first semi-gloss paper coating for 
Fine Art papers. This unique semi-gloss sheen bursts forward with 
unbelievable vibrancy when ink is applied. Suitable for dye and pigment 
based inks, this is probably our best paper yet!

Has anyone tried it?

Peter De Smidt wrote:

>Here's the blurb from their site:
>
>Permajet have developed the World's first semi-gloss paper coating for 
>Fine Art papers. This unique semi-gloss sheen bursts forward with 
>unbelievable vibrancy when ink is applied. Suitable for dye and pigment 
>based inks, this is probably our best paper yet!
>
>Has anyone tried it?
>
>  
>
Sorry, forgot the name. It's "Smooth Art Silk 300."

Thanks Scott,

That is interesting. I think it is fairly easy with color when sprayed
because both are rc surfaces but matching a good gel sil fiber pt is a
lot more difficutlt. What would seem the most difficult would be to
match the exact color of a chemically processed print with pigments of
any kind. If you can do this with the new Epson pigments and the gloss
dif and bronzing are not apparent that says a lot for them and its
probably good enough for me. After all how many are going to mix the
two  surfaces within a portfolio? Did you have to spray that print
with something? The comparisons I've seen between UC K2 and K3, at
least with color glossy paper, still show a very small amount of
surface relief. But with a careful choice of paper you might be able
to disguise it completely, as you apparently have been able to do. I
may be wrong but I don't sense the perfect glossy media has been
produced yet for pigments, and it must be an extremely difficult task.
But very soon, from someone, I think we are going to have one,
possibly this year. Has anyone used the Kodak glossy papers that
eliminate the surface problems? Apparently it only comes in 24" rolls,
no longer. Too bad.

John

> Has anyone tried it?

Hi

I tried it when I was doing a review of the MonoChromePro ink set from PermaJet. I was 
unable to get good results with either the Textured Art Silk or the Smooth Art Silk.

With that ink set, the black came out very flat, and the other inks too glossy.

I've covered this in a look at the papers
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/permajet_paper.html

and the original B/W printing review
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/monochromepro_review.html

I got PermaJet to send samples of all their papers to ColorByte and they have produced 
sets of profiles for the smooth and textured versions. Using the ImagePrint RIP I get very 
good results with both papers, a nice good even sheen that works rather well both for 
colour and B/W (Epson 9600 Mk black)

Incidentally I've put all the MonoChromePro 1290 QTR curves I did for the review 
(ImageLife Alpha, Delta Matt Fibre. Portrait Classic, Museum Classic, Matt plus), on the 
Northlight site on the ImagePrint media settings page
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/imageprint_media_settings.html

bye for now

Keith Cooper
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk

> I am also currently enrolled in a workshop this 
> weekend with Ryuijie and Martha Casanave. 

Lucky you.  I like her stuff a lot and have two of her prints hanging in my
little studio.  I did show her some of my photos, and as I recall the
subject of the medium never came up (they were b&w inkjet).