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How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-12 by wwodets

In corresponding with Steve on various monitor issues, he asked if I 
was sure that PS was actually using my i1 monitor profile.  I had 
always assumed that PS used the Windows system setting for the monitor 
profile.  In researching this it appears this may not be the case.  
Although Adobe Gamma does not load on startup of Windows, it appears 
that it may b necessary to use Adobe Gamma to specify which ICC profile 
to use.  See Adobe document 321608 for the full story.  In spending an 
hour on the phone with Adobe, they are confused about how to specify 
the profile for PS or how to determine which monitor profile PS is 
actually using.

Clearly I am looking at PS through the profile, which affects the 
screen and all programs at startup.  But does PS need to know the 
profile to translate between working space and screen view, etc.?

Re: How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-12 by Tyler Boley

All you have to do to verify that PS is using your monitor profile is
to scroll up to monitor in your RGB PS color setting and see if it
shows there. However, do not select it, that would set it as your
working space, and set you back several years.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets"
<odets@c...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> In corresponding with Steve on various monitor issues, he asked if I 
> was sure that PS was actually using my i1 monitor profile.  I had 
> always assumed that PS used the Windows system setting for the monitor 
> profile.  In researching this it appears this may not be the case.  
> Although Adobe Gamma does not load on startup of Windows, it appears 
> that it may b necessary to use Adobe Gamma to specify which ICC profile 
> to use.  See Adobe document 321608 for the full story.  In spending an 
> hour on the phone with Adobe, they are confused about how to specify 
> the profile for PS or how to determine which monitor profile PS is 
> actually using.
> 
> Clearly I am looking at PS through the profile, which affects the 
> screen and all programs at startup.  But does PS need to know the 
> profile to translate between working space and screen view, etc.?

Tyler Re: How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-13 by wwodets

Tyler-  If I'm understanding you correctly, I looked there and every 
monitor profile in the color directory is listed there (as well as a 
lot of other profiles for all sorts of things).

Walt


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
<tyler@t...> wrote:
> All you have to do to verify that PS is using your monitor profile 
is
> to scroll up to monitor in your RGB PS color setting and see if it
> shows there. However, do not select it, that would set it as your
> working space, and set you back several years.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets"
> <odets@c...> wrote:
> > In corresponding with Steve on various monitor issues, he asked 
if I 
> > was sure that PS was actually using my i1 monitor profile.  I had 
> > always assumed that PS used the Windows system setting for the 
monitor 
> > profile.  In researching this it appears this may not be the 
case.  
> > Although Adobe Gamma does not load on startup of Windows, it 
appears 
> > that it may b necessary to use Adobe Gamma to specify which ICC 
profile 
> > to use.  See Adobe document 321608 for the full story.  In 
spending an 
> > hour on the phone with Adobe, they are confused about how to 
specify 
> > the profile for PS or how to determine which monitor profile PS 
is
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > actually using.
> > 
> > Clearly I am looking at PS through the profile, which affects the 
> > screen and all programs at startup.  But does PS need to know the 
> > profile to translate between working space and screen view, etc.?

RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-13 by Richard

I had a problem with the i1 monitor profile (Windows XP)

 

When windows started, I could see that the profile was applied, screen
colours changed, and then later during startup, they flipped back to what
looked like the default profile (in any case just a lot brighter in my
case). In Startup, there was a utility called Logo Calibration Loader, run
from the i1 installation folder. I have no idea what this is supposed to do,
and didn't bother to find out, but I disabled it, and the monitor reverted
to the profiled colours I was expecting.

 

There is also the Adobe Calibration Loader utility which I assume tries to
load the profile saved during the Adobe Gamma process- I disabled that.

 

Sorry I have no technical input on the whys and wherefores of this process,
but it seemed to work for me

 

Cheers

 

Richard

  _____
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wwodets
Sent: 13 September 2005 00:31
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

 

In corresponding with Steve on various monitor issues, he asked if I 
was sure that PS was actually using my i1 monitor profile.  I had 
always assumed that PS used the Windows system setting for the monitor 
profile.  In researching this it appears this may not be the case.  
Although Adobe Gamma does not load on startup of Windows, it appears 
that it may b necessary to use Adobe Gamma to specify which ICC profile 
to use.  See Adobe document 321608 for the full story.  In spending an 
hour on the phone with Adobe, they are confused about how to specify 
the profile for PS or how to determine which monitor profile PS is 
actually using.

Clearly I am looking at PS through the profile, which affects the 
screen and all programs at startup.  But does PS need to know the 
profile to translate between working space and screen view, etc.?





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-13 by Richard

Some more info

 

http://www.eizo.com/support/compatibility/graphics/13.asp

 

I use Eizo monitors, but it looks as though this is not hardware specific

 

  _____
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: 13 September 2005 05:24
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

 

I had a problem with the i1 monitor profile (Windows XP)



When windows started, I could see that the profile was applied, screen
colours changed, and then later during startup, they flipped back to what
looked like the default profile (in any case just a lot brighter in my
case). In Startup, there was a utility called Logo Calibration Loader, run
from the i1 installation folder. I have no idea what this is supposed to do,
and didn't bother to find out, but I disabled it, and the monitor reverted
to the profiled colours I was expecting.



There is also the Adobe Calibration Loader utility which I assume tries to
load the profile saved during the Adobe Gamma process- I disabled that.



Sorry I have no technical input on the whys and wherefores of this process,
but it seemed to work for me



Cheers



Richard

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wwodets
Sent: 13 September 2005 00:31
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?



In corresponding with Steve on various monitor issues, he asked if I 
was sure that PS was actually using my i1 monitor profile.  I had 
always assumed that PS used the Windows system setting for the monitor 
profile.  In researching this it appears this may not be the case.  
Although Adobe Gamma does not load on startup of Windows, it appears 
that it may b necessary to use Adobe Gamma to specify which ICC profile 
to use.  See Adobe document 321608 for the full story.  In spending an 
hour on the phone with Adobe, they are confused about how to specify 
the profile for PS or how to determine which monitor profile PS is 
actually using.

Clearly I am looking at PS through the profile, which affects the 
screen and all programs at startup.  But does PS need to know the 
profile to translate between working space and screen view, etc.?





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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them short.
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Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-13 by Paul D. DeRocco

> From: Richard
>
> When windows started, I could see that the profile was applied, screen
> colours changed, and then later during startup, they flipped back to what
> looked like the default profile (in any case just a lot brighter in my
> case). In Startup, there was a utility called Logo Calibration Loader, run
> from the i1 installation folder. I have no idea what this is
> supposed to do,
> and didn't bother to find out, but I disabled it, and the monitor reverted
> to the profiled colours I was expecting.
>
> There is also the Adobe Calibration Loader utility which I assume tries to
> load the profile saved during the Adobe Gamma process- I disabled that.
>
> Sorry I have no technical input on the whys and wherefores of
> this process, but it seemed to work for me

That's the wrong thing to do. The Logo Calibration Loader is the thing that
loads the calibration tables produced by your Eye-One software. The monitor
profile describes the response of the system after those tables are loaded.
If you disable this software, then your monitor profile no longer
corresponds to your monitor, and everything will come out wrong. You may
"like" the colors you see, but they're not what the numbers are describing
at that point, and you have no reason to expect they'll agree with what
comes out of the printer.

The reason you saw two changes in screen appearance during startup is that
it was running the Logo Calibration Loader _and_ the Adobe Gamma Loader.
Since you're using a profile that corresponds to the former, it is correct
to disable the latter.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

Re: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-13 by Bob Frost

To set the monitor profile in Windows, open Display properties (rightclick 
on screen)/Settings/Advanced/Color Management. The dialog there will show 
you any profiles that are associated with your monitor and which of them is 
the default. PS will use the default profile automatically, and you can see 
which it is using by opening Color Settings in PS, and scrolling up to 
Monitor RGB-????? (Near the top above all the other profiles). the ??? is 
the profile it is using for the monitor.

Make sure that you have removed ADobe Gamma loader from your Startup folder 
(just drag it out) and just have the loader for your spectro software (Logo 
calibration loader for the GM software, basiccolor videoLUT loader for my 
BasicColor software). If two loaders are present you will see two color 
changes during startup.

Bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "wwodets" <odets@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:30 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?


In corresponding with Steve on various monitor issues, he asked if I
was sure that PS was actually using my i1 monitor profile.  I had
always assumed that PS used the Windows system setting for the monitor
profile.  In researching this it appears this may not be the case.
Although Adobe Gamma does not load on startup of Windows, it appears
that it may b necessary to use Adobe Gamma to specify which ICC profile
to use.  See Adobe document 321608 for the full story.  In spending an
hour on the phone with Adobe, they are confused about how to specify
the profile for PS or how to determine which monitor profile PS is
actually using.

Clearly I am looking at PS through the profile, which affects the
screen and all programs at startup.  But does PS need to know the
profile to translate between working space and screen view, etc.?






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
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Please follow these basic guidelines:
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them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-13 by Richard

HI

 

Thanks for the info - Adobe Gamma Loader was deleted. As I say I'm not sure
of the technical details here,  but I do know that with the Logo Calibration
Loader running at startup the screen colours are the vibrant clear saturated
crisp colours that you get from an LCD display with brightness turned up and
which although impressive, are in my experience difficult to reproduce in
print. With the Logo Calibration Loader disabled the colours are more muted
and produce an excellent match (to my eyes anyway) with the prints produced
using i1 printer profiles. Getting a bit off the B+W thread here. 

 

All I can say is it seems to works for me, and the EIZO link seems to kind
of corroborate this

 


That's the wrong thing to do. The Logo Calibration Loader is the thing that
loads the calibration tables produced by your Eye-One software. The monitor
profile describes the response of the system after those tables are loaded.
If you disable this software, then your monitor profile no longer
corresponds to your monitor, and everything will come out wrong. You may
"like" the colors you see, but they're not what the numbers are describing
at that point, and you have no reason to expect they'll agree with what
comes out of the printer.

The reason you saw two changes in screen appearance during startup is that
it was running the Logo Calibration Loader _and_ the Adobe Gamma Loader.
Since you're using a profile that corresponds to the former, it is correct
to disable the latter.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-13 by Paul D. DeRocco

> From: Richard
>
> Thanks for the info - Adobe Gamma Loader was deleted. As I say
> I'm not sure
> of the technical details here,  but I do know that with the Logo
> Calibration
> Loader running at startup the screen colours are the vibrant
> clear saturated
> crisp colours that you get from an LCD display with brightness
> turned up and
> which although impressive, are in my experience difficult to reproduce in
> print. With the Logo Calibration Loader disabled the colours are
> more muted
> and produce an excellent match (to my eyes anyway) with the
> prints produced
> using i1 printer profiles. Getting a bit off the B+W thread here.

If you don't use the Logo Calibration Loader, then you're running
uncalibrated, and you might as well sell your Eye-One.

If the colors in your images look too bright and saturated, then use
Photoshop to get them the way you want.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-13 by Richard

But Paul, how would I create my printer profiles.

 

I reproduce artwork for artists - they look at my screen, they say it looks
ok, I print it and they go away happy. If I'm running uncalibrated I guess
I'll just have to stay that way

 


If you don't use the Logo Calibration Loader, then you're running
uncalibrated, and you might as well sell your Eye-One.

If the colors in your images look too bright and saturated, then use
Photoshop to get them the way you want.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...




  _____  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-13 by Paul D. DeRocco

> From: Richard
>
> But Paul, how would I create my printer profiles.
>
> I reproduce artwork for artists - they look at my screen, they
> say it looks
> ok, I print it and they go away happy. If I'm running uncalibrated I guess
> I'll just have to stay that way

It's possible to get good results without a calibrated system--but only if
you're lucky. Maybe you're lucky. However, if you say that your screen looks
different when you turn off the calibration, then I would be very surprised
if you got better screen/print matching under those conditions than if you
turned calibration back on. If you really do, then there's something else
wrong somewhere.

Calibration and proper color management really do work, if done correctly.
If you have the Eye-One Pro spectro, then you've got a really good piece of
hardware, and it would be a shame not to use it. I've used it on my
machines, and, within gamut limitations, I get almost perfect matching
between my 21" Nokia CRT and my Dell laptop LCD (which is like matching
apples to oranges), and near-perfect matching between them and my Epson 2200
printer (like matching apples and elephants).

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-14 by Mike Johnston

Interesting, when I remove that program for i1, and reboot,
the screen colors are all washed out including within
Photoshop.

Mike J.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Richard
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 9:41 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?


Some more info



http://www.eizo.com/support/compatibility/graphics/13.asp



I use Eizo monitors, but it looks as though this is not hardware specific



  _____

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: 13 September 2005 05:24
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?



I had a problem with the i1 monitor profile (Windows XP)



When windows started, I could see that the profile was applied, screen
colours changed, and then later during startup, they flipped back to what
looked like the default profile (in any case just a lot brighter in my
case). In Startup, there was a utility called Logo Calibration Loader, run
from the i1 installation folder. I have no idea what this is supposed to do,
and didn't bother to find out, but I disabled it, and the monitor reverted
to the profiled colours I was expecting.



There is also the Adobe Calibration Loader utility which I assume tries to
load the profile saved during the Adobe Gamma process- I disabled that.



Sorry I have no technical input on the whys and wherefores of this process,
but it seemed to work for me



Cheers



Richard

  _____

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wwodets
Sent: 13 September 2005 00:31
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?



In corresponding with Steve on various monitor issues, he asked if I
was sure that PS was actually using my i1 monitor profile.  I had
always assumed that PS used the Windows system setting for the monitor
profile.  In researching this it appears this may not be the case.
Although Adobe Gamma does not load on startup of Windows, it appears
that it may b necessary to use Adobe Gamma to specify which ICC profile
to use.  See Adobe document 321608 for the full story.  In spending an
hour on the phone with Adobe, they are confused about how to specify
the profile for PS or how to determine which monitor profile PS is
actually using.

Clearly I am looking at PS through the profile, which affects the
screen and all programs at startup.  But does PS need to know the
profile to translate between working space and screen view, etc.?





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RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

2005-09-14 by Richard

Well yes me too, at least more muted, screen brightness is down etc, but for
me the point is that what I now see on the monitor closely matches what I
print (using my own i1 print profiles). It seems counterintuitive I know,
because maybe your screen image doesn't look as vibrant as it was, but
you're never going to achieve that vibrancy in a print. Ever printed your
transparencies and been disappointed that they didn't look as good as when
you projected them

 

Anyway I guess this thread has gone on long enough, given that it hasn't
anything to do with B+W printing

 

It looks to me as though I may have a problem where the calibration loader
is actually loading the wrong info to the LUT tables. I'm talking with
Gretag Macbeth in Switzerland about this - they're just round the corner
from me

 

  _____
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Johnston
Sent: 14 September 2005 13:39
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] How Photoshop uses monitor profile?

 

Interesting, when I remove that program for i1, and reboot,
the screen colors are all washed out including within
Photoshop.

Mike J.




  _____  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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