Digital BW, The Print

Greetings:

Sorry for the OT post, but this is my main printing community and
this question does pertain to my ability to print.

I currently use a very old 17" Compaq CRT calibrated by Monaco. I
wish to change to an LCD and am wondering if Dell's UltraSharp 17"
LCD monitors will be of sufficient quality for my B&W and color printing
on my R2400 printer. I will be calibrating with the Monaco. Will it
be good enough in the shadows and have good enough color qualities to 
do good quality photographic printing?

I use Windows XP and have a video card that can handle both analog
and digital output. Thanks for helping me make this transition...

Scott

Scott,

My biggest problem in transiting to an LCD for b&w was that the thing was so
dang bright and constrasty (get the sunglasses).  Life became easier when I
cranked down the brightness considerably and turned up the room lights, and
then calibrated (OptiCal Pro).  No problem then relating shadow detail to
the print (using ImagePrint RIP).  With color it is the same, but there I
can soft-proof and get it the first time or maybe second at most. 

  --Ken 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Scott Jones
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:00 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] OT: Need help on upgrading monitor CRT to LCD
> 
> Greetings:
> 
> Sorry for the OT post, but this is my main printing community 
> and this question does pertain to my ability to print.
> 
> I currently use a very old 17" Compaq CRT calibrated by 
> Monaco. I wish to change to an LCD and am wondering if Dell's 
> UltraSharp 17"
> LCD monitors will be of sufficient quality for my B&W and 
> color printing on my R2400 printer. I will be calibrating 
> with the Monaco. Will it be good enough in the shadows and 
> have good enough color qualities to do good quality 
> photographic printing?
> 
> I use Windows XP and have a video card that can handle both 
> analog and digital output. Thanks for helping me make this 
> transition...
> 
> Scott

Thanks, that was helpful. Can any of our users comment specifically on 
the Dell UltraSharp monitors and whether they will be sufficient? Some 
of the reports I have read suggest that the panels are the same as 
those in the Apple's. Anybody using them? I need some encouragement 
before making the leap. Thanks in advance.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Jones" 
<peanutdogs@h...> wrote:
> Thanks, that was helpful. Can any of our users comment specifically 
on 
> the Dell UltraSharp monitors and whether they will be sufficient? 
Some 
> of the reports I have read suggest that the panels are the same as 
> those in the Apple's. Anybody using them? I need some encouragement 
> before making the leap. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Scott

How much does it cost? Samsung has been a leader in LCD technology, 
and ultimately, they may be the real manufacturer of the panels for 
the apple displays, but I'm not entirely sure about that. So a 
Samsung Syncmaster might be a good option. NEC/Mitsubishi multisync 
LCDs might also be a good option. Whatever you get, you really want 
one of the multisync rate monitors, they all seem to be a higher 
class of display.

Scott Jones wrote:
> Thanks, that was helpful. Can any of our users comment specifically on 
> the Dell UltraSharp monitors and whether they will be sufficient? Some 
> of the reports I have read suggest that the panels are the same as 
> those in the Apple's. Anybody using them? I need some encouragement 
> before making the leap. Thanks in advance.

Scott, there's a forum thread on this subject on Rob Galbraith's site 
that makes interesting reading:

http://forums.robgalbraith.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=350263&an=&page=0&vc=1

After some discussion back and forth, the bottom line seems to be that 
the Dell panel is fine, the control circuitry is not, which makes the 
Dell monitor less useful than the Apple Cinema Display (for critical 
photo work, that is). I have not used one of these Dell monitors, I'm 
just reporting what I have read. My pair of Trinitron CRT monitors is 
getting old, so I have a lively interest though....

Peter Marquis-Kyle

Ken and Scott-

If you have an LCD with separate brightness, contrast and backlight 
control you can calibrate the monitor for any gamma and temp at any 
luminance level.  Although a luminance of 100-140 cd/m2 is considered 
standard, I calibrate mine at about 40 and get a luminance that is 
very close to that of a paper print at 450 lux.  This makes soft 
proofing much more accurate.  The i1 actually measures the luminance 
level for you, which makes the setting repeatable.  Incidentally on 
my Sony LCD, this is a backlight level of about 30%.

Walt



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Carney" 
<kcarney1@c...> wrote:
> Scott,
> 
> My biggest problem in transiting to an LCD for b&w was that the 
thing was so
> dang bright and constrasty (get the sunglasses).  Life became 
easier when I
> cranked down the brightness considerably and turned up the room 
lights, and
> then calibrated (OptiCal Pro).  No problem then relating shadow 
detail to
> the print (using ImagePrint RIP).  With color it is the same, but 
there I
> can soft-proof and get it the first time or maybe second at most. 
> 
>   --Ken 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> > Behalf Of Scott Jones
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:00 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] OT: Need help on upgrading monitor CRT to 
LCD

> > 
> > Greetings:
> > 
> > Sorry for the OT post, but this is my main printing community 
> > and this question does pertain to my ability to print.
> > 
> > I currently use a very old 17" Compaq CRT calibrated by 
> > Monaco. I wish to change to an LCD and am wondering if Dell's 
> > UltraSharp 17"
> > LCD monitors will be of sufficient quality for my B&W and 
> > color printing on my R2400 printer. I will be calibrating 
> > with the Monaco. Will it be good enough in the shadows and 
> > have good enough color qualities to do good quality 
> > photographic printing?
> > 
> > I use Windows XP and have a video card that can handle both 
> > analog and digital output. Thanks for helping me make this 
> > transition...
> > 
> > Scott

At 2:36 AM +0000 9/28/05, Scott Jones wrote:
>
>Thanks, that was helpful. Can any of our users comment specifically on
>the Dell UltraSharp monitors and whether they will be sufficient? Some
>of the reports I have read suggest that the panels are the same as
>those in the Apple's. Anybody using them? I need some encouragement
>before making the leap. Thanks in advance.
>
>Scott

The Apple conjecture is plausible since it owns part of Samsung and 
Dell sells at least some Samsung monitors as "Dell" monitors. But I 
doubt whether it's true because I've never heard it said among Mac 
users, who have however been buying Dell's discounted 21- and 24-inch 
LCD's. Bare Feats reviewed the 24-inch one, vs. Apple's 23-inch 
display, at <http://www.barefeats.com/lcd.html>.

I looked at Dell's smaller LCD's because I'd like one which rotates 
into the portrait orientation for more convenient use on my crowded 
desktop as a Photoshop "palette monitor". No luck, at Dell or 
elsewhere, so I got a 17" Dell CRT made by Samsung (I asked). It's ok 
for palettes (and e-mail, etc.), but, from ordering to delivery, I 
got the worst service from Dell that I've ever gotten anywhere in 
many years of using both WinTel and Apple boxes.

At the same time, I was shopping for a new rotating/pivoting 
1280x1024 19-inch LCD display for full-size 14 x 11 _and_ 11 x 14 
images. EIZO has one in their "Graphics Monitors" line which I like 
so much that I decided to see what else I can postpone so I can 
afford it. But I've since decided that their 20-inch L887 is a much 
better value. Incidentally, EIZO still has monochrome displays 
(intended for medical use), including an 18-inch one, listed on 
<http://radiforce.com/en/products/index.html>.

The best prices might be at <http://www.monitoroutlet.com/>, and I 
think the best advice - but maybe not for Dell displays specifically 
- might be at <http://www.chromix.com/>.
--
Sam