Digital BW, The Print

I know there are several posts on this topic already, but the
technology keeps changing and I can't find any post that addresses my
specific requirements.

I'm looking for a printer to get started.  I've done some traditional
silver darkroom work and love the look of fiber based matte papers -
RC never did much for me.  I also want to print color images (which
presumably means semi-gloss or gloss).  Ideally, I'd like to print
quality B & W and color prints from one printer due to space and
expense considerations.

I'd also like the printer to have some longevity - i.e. when I'm able
to get a second printer, I'd like it to work well as a dedicated B & W
(using K7, MIS or other B & W ink sets) or color printer and have a
carriage that takes 11 x 14 or larger paper and preferably roll paper.

If I have to jump through a bunch of technical hoops to get where I
need to go I'm OK with that.  I'm sure I'll learn a lot in the process.

The Epson 1800 seems to fit most of my criteria, but I'm not sure how
well I can print B & W on it without using the color inks.  I've seen
b & w prints made from color inks and the color cast IMO would be
unacceptable.  Maybe a RIP profile from QTR would work to do some kind
of 100% black printing (as a poster on this board mentioned on their
site a while back), but I'm not sure if the epson's support 100% black
printing.  Is there a way to do all black printing on this printer? 
If not, would an earlier epson (like the 2200) be a better way to go?

Another possibility would be a couple of used 1280's, but they would
take up more space than I have and would have that irritating single
cartridge for all colors thing (limiting ink sets I could use and
costing more cash in consumables).  I'd also have longevity and
support issues to consider as this printer ages.

I could maybe do a pair of R800's, but I wouldn't have the wide
carriage and I'd be afraid of outgrowing this printer if it can't do
sizes greater than 8.5 x 11.

If anyone knows if it's possible to do all black printing on the 1800,
I think that would be ideal.  If not, I'd welcome any alternatives you
could suggest.

Matt,
I don't know about B&W on the 1800 but on the 2400 with ABW, it's  
very good. It's as good to my eyes as what I have seen with Rips 
(using color inks), and with very little hassle.  Additonally, if you 
use BO for higher contrast less detailed images you have 2 good and 
easy methods to do B&W, and color on the same printer.  
SteveB 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" 
<dweccl@h...> wrote:
>
> I know there are several posts on this topic already, but the
> technology keeps changing and I can't find any post that addresses 
my
> specific requirements.
> 
> I'm looking for a printer to get started.  I've done some 
traditional
> silver darkroom work and love the look of fiber based matte papers -
> RC never did much for me.  I also want to print color images (which
> presumably means semi-gloss or gloss).  Ideally, I'd like to print
> quality B & W and color prints from one printer due to space and
> expense considerations.
> 
> I'd also like the printer to have some longevity - i.e. when I'm 
able
> to get a second printer, I'd like it to work well as a dedicated B 
& W
> (using K7, MIS or other B & W ink sets) or color printer and have a
> carriage that takes 11 x 14 or larger paper and preferably roll 
paper.
> 
> If I have to jump through a bunch of technical hoops to get where I
> need to go I'm OK with that.  I'm sure I'll learn a lot in the 
process.
> 
> The Epson 1800 seems to fit most of my criteria, but I'm not sure 
how
> well I can print B & W on it without using the color inks.  I've 
seen
> b & w prints made from color inks and the color cast IMO would be
> unacceptable.  Maybe a RIP profile from QTR would work to do some 
kind
> of 100% black printing (as a poster on this board mentioned on their
> site a while back), but I'm not sure if the epson's support 100% 
black
> printing.  Is there a way to do all black printing on this printer? 
> If not, would an earlier epson (like the 2200) be a better way to 
go?
> 
> Another possibility would be a couple of used 1280's, but they would
> take up more space than I have and would have that irritating single
> cartridge for all colors thing (limiting ink sets I could use and
> costing more cash in consumables).  I'd also have longevity and
> support issues to consider as this printer ages.
> 
> I could maybe do a pair of R800's, but I wouldn't have the wide
> carriage and I'd be afraid of outgrowing this printer if it can't do
> sizes greater than 8.5 x 11.
> 
> If anyone knows if it's possible to do all black printing on the 
1800,
> I think that would be ideal.  If not, I'd welcome any alternatives 
you
> could suggest.
>

Hello Matt,

>I'd like to print quality B & W and color prints from one 
>printer due to space and expense considerations.

>when I'm able to get a second printer...

>some kind of 100% black printing 

Sounds like you need a 2400 for the color and BW (doesn't need a RIP).
 The 1800 doesn't do good BW.  Since you want to try Black Only
printing and you're willing to get a 2nd printer, a 1280 or a 2200
would be great for that.  I don't think the 1800 is a good fit for
what you describe.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Mark, I just saw that there is now a Piezo K7 set for
the 1800 - so that would be an option.  I don't have
any experience with shifting back-and-forth between
these and color, however.  Maybe someone else does?

BTW, a C86 with EZ inks is a really good way to get
started with quad-tone B&W ... and with rebates, etc.,
they can be had CHEAP ( mine new cost me about $35 and
I still have the original Epson color carts
unopened!).  Albeit they are only letter size - but
for getting used to B&W and testing paper, inks, and
approaches - extremely hard to beat!

And one can do BO as well...with some images and for
many with tastes similar to mine, these look extremely
good... Of course if you do BO, the color carts can
just be left in the printer for color printing.

I am told, soon the R200 carts will be available from
MIS and it should offer similar "starter" and small
format printing for little investment of money, time,
or precious mental energy - as Paul Roark will have
done that for us...THANKS!  And reports are it is
slightly better in print quality than the C86 and
so-far, reliable with pigments despite being designed
for dyes. 

FWIW...my $.02

Michael Vendell

--- Matt <dweccl@...> wrote:

> I know there are several posts on this topic
> already, but the
> technology keeps changing and I can't find any post
> that addresses my
> specific requirements.
> 
> I'm looking for a printer to get started.  I've done
> some traditional
> silver darkroom work and love the look of fiber
> based matte papers -
> RC never did much for me.  I also want to print
> color images (which
> presumably means semi-gloss or gloss).  Ideally, I'd
> like to print
> quality B & W and color prints from one printer due
> to space and
> expense considerations.
> 
> I'd also like the printer to have some longevity -
> i.e. when I'm able
> to get a second printer, I'd like it to work well as
> a dedicated B & W
> (using K7, MIS or other B & W ink sets) or color
> printer and have a
> carriage that takes 11 x 14 or larger paper and
> preferably roll paper.
> 
> If I have to jump through a bunch of technical hoops
> to get where I
> need to go I'm OK with that.  I'm sure I'll learn a
> lot in the process.
> 
> The Epson 1800 seems to fit most of my criteria, but
> I'm not sure how
> well I can print B & W on it without using the color
> inks.  I've seen
> b & w prints made from color inks and the color cast
> IMO would be
> unacceptable.  Maybe a RIP profile from QTR would
> work to do some kind
> of 100% black printing (as a poster on this board
> mentioned on their
> site a while back), but I'm not sure if the epson's
> support 100% black
> printing.  Is there a way to do all black printing
> on this printer? 
> If not, would an earlier epson (like the 2200) be a
> better way to go?
> 
> Another possibility would be a couple of used
> 1280's, but they would
> take up more space than I have and would have that
> irritating single
> cartridge for all colors thing (limiting ink sets I
> could use and
> costing more cash in consumables).  I'd also have
> longevity and
> support issues to consider as this printer ages.
> 
> I could maybe do a pair of R800's, but I wouldn't
> have the wide
> carriage and I'd be afraid of outgrowing this
> printer if it can't do
> sizes greater than 8.5 x 11.
> 
> If anyone knows if it's possible to do all black
> printing on the 1800,
> I think that would be ideal.  If not, I'd welcome
> any alternatives you
> could suggest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com

> ...
> I'm looking for a printer to get started.  I've done some traditional
> silver darkroom work and love the look of fiber based matte papers -
> RC never did much for me.  I also want to print color images (which
> presumably means semi-gloss or gloss).  Ideally, I'd like to print
> quality B & W and color prints from one printer due to space and
> expense considerations.

The 2400 is the one I'd recommend for color + B&W.

 
> I'd also like the printer to have some longevity -

Wilhelm Research gives the 2400 good marks.  My fade tests show its prints
are not as lightfast as the MIS UT inks, however.

> 
> The Epson 1800 seems to fit most of my criteria,

It's not a good b&w printers.  No color ink can do what I consider a good
job.  The 2400 has the requisite gray inks, however.

> ... would an earlier epson (like the 2200) be a better way to go?

The 2200 with QTR can make better B&W than an 1800.

> Another possibility would be a couple of used 1280's, but they would
> take up more space than I have and would have that irritating single
> cartridge for all colors thing (limiting ink sets I could use and
> costing more cash in consumables).  I'd also have longevity and
> support issues to consider as this printer ages.

The MIS clear carts are easily re-fillable with color and B&W pigments that
are very lightfast.  I don't think the used 1280s are as reliable as the
newer printers.

> I could maybe do a pair of R800's, but I wouldn't have the wide
> carriage and I'd be afraid of outgrowing this printer if it can't do
> sizes greater than 8.5 x 11.

The C86 or R200 (and probably R2200 -- I'll test on next week) are cheap
enough that starting with one of these doesn't cost you much.

I have my recommendations with respect to the printers I've worked with at
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/index.htm.  

Good luck on your journey.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" 
<dweccl@h...> wrote:

> If anyone knows if it's possible to do all black printing on the 1800,
> I think that would be ideal.  If not, I'd welcome any alternatives you
> could suggest.
>

Matt, it is possible to do Black Only (BO) printing with the R1800, but 
only with QTR or perhaps another RIP. Theoretically, the small droplet 
size should allow you to do very well, but the model seems to have a 
major microbanding problem that gets progressively more obvious with 
less channels firing. I'm currently waiting for the 4th one of these to 
arrive from Epson, so the chances of getting a good one that has no 
banding seem downright abysmal.

So I'd agree with other posts, go with the 2400 if your budget allows. 
More bucks, but many fewer headaches.

Steve Karafyllakis