Digital BW, The Print

Hi Folks
I just recently purchased  (last week) EZ b&w ink sets from MIS and
also ordered an Epson C86 printer. Well low and behold C86 printers
are discontinued and are being replaced buy C88 printers. So now I
have 2 sets of C86 b&w ink sets but cannot even find a refurbished
C86. I am having a hard time communicating with MIS to get some idea
or news if they are going to provide EZ b&w ink sets for the C88 or
not or for that matter the R200. Anyway, the essence of my post is
does anyone
have any idea what is happening with MIS and producing EZ b&w ink sets
for the C88?  Thank you for you attention regarding this matter.

Cheers
Gheri

I have the EZ inks for a C84, which Epson replaced shortly after I 
acquired it with the C86.  But they used the same ink cartridges.  Does 
the C88 use a different cartridge than the C84/86?

Cheers,
Kip

gheri2376 wrote:

>Hi Folks
>I just recently purchased  (last week) EZ b&w ink sets from MIS and
>also ordered an Epson C86 printer. Well low and behold C86 printers
>are discontinued and are being replaced buy C88 printers. So now I
>have 2 sets of C86 b&w ink sets but cannot even find a refurbished
>C86. I am having a hard time communicating with MIS to get some idea
>or news if they are going to provide EZ b&w ink sets for the C88 or
>not or for that matter the R200. Anyway, the essence of my post is
>does anyone
>have any idea what is happening with MIS and producing EZ b&w ink sets
>for the C88?  Thank you for you attention regarding this matter.
>
>Cheers
>Gheri
>
>  
>

It's the same printer, just "up-dated".

The c66, c84, c86, c88 all us the same carts.

(Since Epson has their R200 and R300 series printers, I'm suprised that 
Epson is continuing the C8x series.)

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gheri2376" 
<gheri2376@y...> wrote:

>
> Hi Folks
> I just recently purchased  (last week) EZ b&w ink sets from MIS and
> also ordered an Epson C86 printer. Well low and behold C86 printers
> are discontinued and are being replaced buy C88 printers. So now I
> have 2 sets of C86 b&w ink sets but cannot even find a refurbished
> C86. I am having a hard time communicating with MIS to get some idea
> or news if they are going to provide EZ b&w ink sets for the C88 or
> not or for that matter the R200. Anyway, the essence of my post is
> does anyone
> have any idea what is happening with MIS and producing EZ b&w ink sets
> for the C88?  Thank you for you attention regarding this matter.
> 
> Cheers
> Gheri
>

I've seen one test strip from a C88 with the EZ inks.  The print was quite
good, but a little lighter than my usual target.  I'd guess if one used
Gamma 2.2 it would take care of that issue.  However, I have not had a
change to experiment with a C88.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> scott_now_coming
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:21 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: EPSON C88 VS C86
> 
> It's the same printer, just "up-dated".
> 
> The c66, c84, c86, c88 all us the same carts.
> 
> (Since Epson has their R200 and R300 series printers, I'm suprised that
> Epson is continuing the C8x series.)
> 
> Scott
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gheri2376"
> <gheri2376@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Folks
> > I just recently purchased  (last week) EZ b&w ink sets from MIS and
> > also ordered an Epson C86 printer. Well low and behold C86 printers
> > are discontinued and are being replaced buy C88 printers. So now I
> > have 2 sets of C86 b&w ink sets but cannot even find a refurbished
> > C86. I am having a hard time communicating with MIS to get some idea
> > or news if they are going to provide EZ b&w ink sets for the C88 or
> > not or for that matter the R200. Anyway, the essence of my post is
> > does anyone
> > have any idea what is happening with MIS and producing EZ b&w ink sets
> > for the C88?  Thank you for you attention regarding this matter.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Gheri
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Hi Scott,
Are you sure about the c86 having the same cartridge as the c88 ? My
impression is that the cartridge for the c88 is a new or different one
than the one for the c86. My impression is that it would be so much
nicer of Epson to have kept the cartridges compatible, but that Epson
changed the cartridges for the newer c88. I would greatly prefer that
they are the same cartridge, as I cannot find low cost c88 cartridges
yet, however plenty of c86 cartridges. I would love to be incorrect here.
Jerry


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@y...> wrote:

>
> It's the same printer, just "up-dated".
> 
> The c66, c84, c86, c88 all us the same carts.
> 
> (Since Epson has their R200 and R300 series printers, I'm suprised that 
> Epson is continuing the C8x series.)
> 
> Scott
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gheri2376" 
> <gheri2376@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Folks
> > I just recently purchased  (last week) EZ b&w ink sets from MIS and
> > also ordered an Epson C86 printer. Well low and behold C86 printers
> > are discontinued and are being replaced buy C88 printers. So now I
> > have 2 sets of C86 b&w ink sets but cannot even find a refurbished
> > C86. I am having a hard time communicating with MIS to get some idea
> > or news if they are going to provide EZ b&w ink sets for the C88 or
> > not or for that matter the R200. Anyway, the essence of my post is
> > does anyone
> > have any idea what is happening with MIS and producing EZ b&w ink sets
> > for the C88?  Thank you for you attention regarding this matter.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > Gheri
> >
>

If what many of us believe is true, that Epson's business model in this 
area is to sell razor blades (ink at thousands of dollars per gallon) 
and that the razors (printers) are just the hook to get us to buy the 
blades, they have to spend enormous sums to keep their blades impossible 
to reuse (refill) and difficult to copy.  Once copies have been made, 
i.e. once MIS and others have found third-party cartridges that can be 
used in Epson printers, Epson has no choice but to discontinue the old 
razor and move on to a new design which takes only a new blade.

Frankly, I don't think worldwide interest in B&W inks for Epson printers 
rises to the level of a miscellaneous adjustment in the financial 
reports that Epson sees, but the flood of "compatible" color cartridges 
from dozens of different vendors at fractions of Epson prices does get 
their attention.  As long as their business is selling ink, we cannot 
expect stability in cartridge design, unless and until they come up with 
one that cannot be  (functionally) duplicated.  If that ever happens, 
our only choices will be to find another printer platform that can use 
our third party inks (but I believe all printer makers are following 
Epson's business model to some extent, which may make an alternative 
platform hard to find) or move to the giant printers that use external, 
or easily refilled internal, ink supplies like the floor-mounted Epsons 
(7600, etc.)

Or, the state of the art may move and we'll all be doing our work on 
Xerox machines.  Wonder what the business model would be there?  
(Probably the same - I spent multiples of the cost of my laser printer 
on replacement cartridges over the years that I had that printer.)

Cheers,
Kip

jerry78008 wrote, in part:

>My impression is that it would be so much
>nicer of Epson to have kept the cartridges compatible, but that Epson
>changed the cartridges for the newer c88. I would greatly prefer that
>they are the same cartridge, as I cannot find low cost c88 cartridges
>yet, however plenty of c86 cartridges. 
>

Well, I just went to the Epson website and it's a little confusing. 
For instance, when I check on a magenta cart for the c88, it comes up 
listed for about 4 other printers other than the c88.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/ProductQuickSpec.jsp?
BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=60874898&category=


I have a feeling it's the same cart, maybe a different chip, though.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jerry78008" 
<photo29@p...> wrote:
>
> Hi Scott,
> Are you sure about the c86 having the same cartridge as the c88 ? My
> impression is that the cartridge for the c88 is a new or different 
one
> than the one for the c86. My impression is that it would be so much
> nicer of Epson to have kept the cartridges compatible, but that 
Epson
> changed the cartridges for the newer c88. I would greatly prefer 
that
> they are the same cartridge, as I cannot find low cost c88 
cartridges
> yet, however plenty of c86 cartridges. I would love to be incorrect 
here.
> Jerry
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@y...> wrote:
> >
> > It's the same printer, just "up-dated".
> > 
> > The c66, c84, c86, c88 all us the same carts.
> > 
> > (Since Epson has their R200 and R300 series printers, I'm 
suprised that 
> > Epson is continuing the C8x series.)
> > 
> > Scott
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gheri2376" 
> > <gheri2376@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Folks
> > > I just recently purchased  (last week) EZ b&w ink sets from MIS 
and
> > > also ordered an Epson C86 printer. Well low and behold C86 
printers
> > > are discontinued and are being replaced buy C88 printers. So 
now I
> > > have 2 sets of C86 b&w ink sets but cannot even find a 
refurbished
> > > C86. I am having a hard time communicating with MIS to get some 
idea
> > > or news if they are going to provide EZ b&w ink sets for the 
C88 or
> > > not or for that matter the R200. Anyway, the essence of my post 
is
> > > does anyone
> > > have any idea what is happening with MIS and producing EZ b&w 
ink sets

> > > for the C88?  Thank you for you attention regarding this matter.
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > > Gheri
> > >
> >
>

You can also go to B&H's website and get similar results. Look under 
Features and you'll see the C88 listed last, yet, when you look at the 
description (upper right) the C88 is nowhere to be found.
http://tinyurl.com/e3nwh

Mark VM

scott_now_coming wrote:

> Well, I just went to the Epson website and it's a little confusing. 
> For instance, when I check on a magenta cart for the c88, it comes up 
> listed for about 4 other printers other than the c88.
>
> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/ProductQuickSpec.jsp?
> BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=60874898&category=
>
>
> I have a feeling it's the same cart, maybe a different chip, though.
>
> Scott
>
>
>   
>

MIS has tested a C88 with C86 carts, and they seem to fit fine.  They think
the driver has slightly different characteristics to allow upgraded inks.

The C86 cart is used in lots of Epson printers, including the new 2400.  I
think they've found a successful design and are probably benefiting from
economies of scale.  I doubt they would change cart designs just to compete
with the third party ink sellers.  They seem to use patents, lawsuits and
marketing for that.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

You may be right, Paul, and I may just be too cynical.  But I remember 
seeing (within the last year or so) a cutaway of one of a new Epson 
cartridge design, and wondering just exactly what was the purpose of all 
of the incredibly intricate chambers and pathways if not (primarily) to 
make it impossible to refill?  I mean, unless the older styles had 
problems with leakage or drying out, the new one took up an awful lot of 
internal space with chambers and passageways that could have been space 
for extra ink.

Cheers,
Kip

Paul Roark wrote, in part:

>The C86 cart is used in lots of Epson printers, including the new 2400.  I
>think they've found a successful design and are probably benefiting from
>economies of scale.  I doubt they would change cart designs just to compete
>with the third party ink sellers.  They seem to use patents, lawsuits and
>marketing for that.
>  
>