Digital BW, The Print

I am a new user of image print. I am using an epson4800 and with IP 
6.1 and it prints wonderfully neutral b&w. I want to make some sepia 
prints and the tint utility in IP gives me exactly the amount of 
warming I want on the monitor (I keep my monitor calibrated) but when 
the print comes out the tint is barely noticable even with the tint 
turned up all the way in IP.
If anyone else has experience with this type of issue with IP I would 
love to hear about it!

Thanks,

Charlie

Sorry Charile I can't help you with your sepia question but I'm 
wondering if you could share with us how Image Print compares in 
general for black & white vs. just using the 4800's Adv black white 
driver...? 
Thanks!
SteveB    

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie" 
<psiempyo@h...> wrote:

>
> I am a new user of image print. I am using an epson4800 and with IP 
> 6.1 and it prints wonderfully neutral b&w. I want to make some sepia 
> prints and the tint utility in IP gives me exactly the amount of 
> warming I want on the monitor (I keep my monitor calibrated) but when 
> the print comes out the tint is barely noticable even with the tint 
> turned up all the way in IP.
> If anyone else has experience with this type of issue with IP I would 
> love to hear about it!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Charlie
>

Hi Steve,

The epson advbw was a tad on the warm side. In order to get it to 
print with the same appearance as what I was seeing on the profiled 
monitor I had to adjust the advbw controls to add contrast. There 
would then be a slight gray shading outside the image area on the 
page. For printing dead neutral prints one after the next IP makes 
it look easy. I experimented with the 4800's advbw and I had a 2200 
before with the mis inkset. I made good prints with the mis and 
quite a bit of work. The 4800 advbw was better. IP is way ahead of 
both, at least with the 4800. Dmax on luster paper is much higher 
than anything else I have used. On matte it is much better.
I managed to get on as a beta tester for the "phatte black" system 
from colorbyte which allows the installation of the matte black cart 
in the light light black slot. By selecting the appropriate 
colorbyte generated profile it uses the matte ink or photo black ink 
without need for cart changes. That is something else I was never 
able to do in the past. Going from matte to photo paper with the 
click of the mouse is very very nice. IP's rip does not need the L L 
black cart for color or b&w. I think the only reason epson added the 
third black tone ink was an attempt to compete with mis and other 
third party b&w inkset producers. The rips, at least IP still has 
epsons b&w efforts beat by a considerable margin I think.



charlie


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "steveabrink" 
<steveabrink@y...> wrote:
>
> Sorry Charile I can't help you with your sepia question but I'm 
> wondering if you could share with us how Image Print compares in 
> general for black & white vs. just using the 4800's Adv black 
white 
> driver...? 
> Thanks!
> SteveB    
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie" 
> <psiempyo@h...> wrote:
> >
> > I am a new user of image print. I am using an epson4800 and with 
IP 
> > 6.1 and it prints wonderfully neutral b&w. I want to make some 
sepia 
> > prints and the tint utility in IP gives me exactly the amount of 
> > warming I want on the monitor (I keep my monitor calibrated) but 
when 
> > the print comes out the tint is barely noticable even with the 
tint 
> > turned up all the way in IP.
> > If anyone else has experience with this type of issue with IP I 
would 

> > love to hear about it!
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Charlie
> >
>

Charlie,
Thanks for the report!  IP does address an important issue for some;
avoiding black cart changeovers, so understanding the difference in print
output is very helpful.

When you say dead neutral, what exactly do you mean?  Are you measuring them
with an instrument, or comparing them to some standard?

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Charlie
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:49 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Tinted sepia using image print 6.1



Hi Steve,

The epson advbw was a tad on the warm side. In order to get it to
print with the same appearance as what I was seeing on the profiled
monitor I had to adjust the advbw controls to add contrast. There
would then be a slight gray shading outside the image area on the
page. For printing dead neutral prints one after the next IP makes
it look easy. I experimented with the 4800's advbw and I had a 2200
before with the mis inkset. I made good prints with the mis and
quite a bit of work. The 4800 advbw was better. IP is way ahead of
both, at least with the 4800. Dmax on luster paper is much higher
than anything else I have used. On matte it is much better.
I managed to get on as a beta tester for the "phatte black" system
from colorbyte which allows the installation of the matte black cart
in the light light black slot. By selecting the appropriate
colorbyte generated profile it uses the matte ink or photo black ink
without need for cart changes. That is something else I was never
able to do in the past. Going from matte to photo paper with the
click of the mouse is very very nice. IP's rip does not need the L L
black cart for color or b&w. I think the only reason epson added the
third black tone ink was an attempt to compete with mis and other
third party b&w inkset producers. The rips, at least IP still has
epsons b&w efforts beat by a considerable margin I think.



charlie




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think someone needs to chime in here, but I'll leave it to him to do 
so. Image Print in not the Panacea that some make it out to be, 
especially concerning the photo/matte black variation. I read a very 
interesting email last night (offlist).

If you have a spectrophotometer, and some techincal knowledge, I would 
recommend using a different RIP. If you want someone's black box that 
you send images through to get prints (no doubt they could be better 
than the Epson drivers), then IP might be best for you.

Another simple RIP that might allow the matte/photo variation (if they 
are pushed) is iproof RIP, and it's under $400 (for the 4800) and for 
both PC and MAC. When the Evolution RIP is ready to work with the x800 
printers, you will also be able to map the black inks in such a way 
that you can do the same thing, and it is $500 for the 17 inch and 
under printers.

But consider that you will need to modify each matte black cart before 
you can use it, or refill the existing light light black (stupid Epson) 
cart. If you are going through that much trouble, you might just want 
to consider refilling all the colors, the carts use the standard large 
format reset tool. The 78/9800 might be different!

When I say dead neutral I just mean black and white. No brown or blue 
tinting. I don't have any instrument to measure it with. It also means 
whether I am looking at it in a sunlit room, fluorescent lights or 
incandescents it looks black and white. 

charlie