Digital BW, The Print

I'm trying to establish a workflow using Epson advanced B&W and
Hahnmuele photo rag and am having the age old problem of matching
screen to print output.  (my screen is calibrated, incidentally)

At this stage, I don't want to use an RIP or another Epson printing
mode.  (maybe later on, but I tend to think that if I have the
Advanced B&W mode, which seems to be capable of pretty good results, I
may as well use it...)

There seem to be a few options - including

(a) the fine tradition of trial and error - tweaking the imaging using
the Advanced B&W controls & other controls (such as the paper type,
tone (normal, dark, darker etc)  (any thoughts on settings, BTW?  What
paper type should I use, for example?)

(b) printing with the 'canned' Hahnmuele photo rag ICC profile
(through Print Preview, Let Photoshop determine the colours etc, then
using Advanced B&W)

(c) creating a custom ICC by printing out a 21 step wedge then
matching it by eye to the monitor (as per Paul Roark's guide at
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Monitor-Profiling.htm )then using (b). 
(But I can't seem to get the curve to preview properly despite
checking the preview button... using Cs2 for windows)

(d) as a final desperate possibility, create a custom curve and simply
loading it prior to printing...

Incidentally, can you proof on the lower GSM Hahnmuele photo rag, with
a view to printing the finals on the 308gsm paper?

Thanks in advance
Gareth

(e) create a QTR ICC profile for the Adv B&W settings you use.  If you do
not have a spectrophotometer or densitometer perhaps you could send a
printed target to someone that can read it for you.

> From: garethjolly <garethjolly@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:21:08 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Epson Advanced B&W workflow with non Epson papers
> 
> I'm trying to establish a workflow using Epson advanced B&W and
> Hahnmuele photo rag and am having the age old problem of matching
> screen to print output.  (my screen is calibrated, incidentally)
> 
> At this stage, I don't want to use an RIP or another Epson printing
> mode.  (maybe later on, but I tend to think that if I have the
> Advanced B&W mode, which seems to be capable of pretty good results, I
> may as well use it...)
> 
> There seem to be a few options - including
> 
> (a) the fine tradition of trial and error - tweaking the imaging using
> the Advanced B&W controls & other controls (such as the paper type,
> tone (normal, dark, darker etc)  (any thoughts on settings, BTW?  What
> paper type should I use, for example?)
> 
> (b) printing with the 'canned' Hahnmuele photo rag ICC profile
> (through Print Preview, Let Photoshop determine the colours etc, then
> using Advanced B&W)
> 
> (c) creating a custom ICC by printing out a 21 step wedge then
> matching it by eye to the monitor (as per Paul Roark's guide at
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Monitor-Profiling.htm )then using (b).
> (But I can't seem to get the curve to preview properly despite
> checking the preview button... using Cs2 for windows)
> 
> (d) as a final desperate possibility, create a custom curve and simply
> loading it prior to printing...
> 
> Incidentally, can you proof on the lower GSM Hahnmuele photo rag, with
> a view to printing the finals on the 308gsm paper?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Gareth

Thanks.  And I then use it with print it through Print Preview, Let
Photoshop determine the colours etc, then use Advanced B&W?

And a variant on that theme.  If I had a (colour) ICC created for me
by a commercial provider, could I simply use that in the same way? 
The fact that it was colour presumably wouldn't matter if I was using
Advanced B&W?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> (e) create a QTR ICC profile for the Adv B&W settings you use.  If
you do
> not have a spectrophotometer or densitometer perhaps you could send a
> printed target to someone that can read it for you.
> 
> 
> > From: garethjolly <garethjolly@b...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:21:08 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Epson Advanced B&W workflow with non Epson
papers

> > 
> > I'm trying to establish a workflow using Epson advanced B&W and
> > Hahnmuele photo rag and am having the age old problem of matching
> > screen to print output.  (my screen is calibrated, incidentally)
> > 
> > At this stage, I don't want to use an RIP or another Epson printing
> > mode.  (maybe later on, but I tend to think that if I have the
> > Advanced B&W mode, which seems to be capable of pretty good results, I
> > may as well use it...)
> > 
> > There seem to be a few options - including
> > 
> > (a) the fine tradition of trial and error - tweaking the imaging using
> > the Advanced B&W controls & other controls (such as the paper type,
> > tone (normal, dark, darker etc)  (any thoughts on settings, BTW?  What
> > paper type should I use, for example?)
> > 
> > (b) printing with the 'canned' Hahnmuele photo rag ICC profile
> > (through Print Preview, Let Photoshop determine the colours etc, then
> > using Advanced B&W)
> > 
> > (c) creating a custom ICC by printing out a 21 step wedge then
> > matching it by eye to the monitor (as per Paul Roark's guide at
> > http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Monitor-Profiling.htm )then using (b).
> > (But I can't seem to get the curve to preview properly despite
> > checking the preview button... using Cs2 for windows)
> > 
> > (d) as a final desperate possibility, create a custom curve and simply
> > loading it prior to printing...
> > 
> > Incidentally, can you proof on the lower GSM Hahnmuele photo rag, with
> > a view to printing the finals on the 308gsm paper?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance
> > Gareth
>

Gareth-

A color profile cannot be used to print through the ABW driver.  

I have a profile for the H. Photo Rag printed through the ABW with 
all settings neutral except "light" instead of "darker."  You can 
also use the profile to soft proof in PS, so if your monitor profile 
is accurate (and in the proper folder so that PS uses it), the screen 
match is excellent.  And yes, you can proof on the lighter paper and 
do a final print on the 308.  If you end up using the profile, please 
send Roy Harrington 50 bucks--you'll save that much in paper and ink 
costs in a week or two.  Incidentally, I've found that the 2400's are 
consistent enough (sample to sample) that a "canned" profile is 
probably just fine.  E-mail me if you want to try this.

Walt



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "garethjolly" 
<garethjolly@b...> wrote:
>
> Thanks.  And I then use it with print it through Print Preview, Let
> Photoshop determine the colours etc, then use Advanced B&W?
> 
> And a variant on that theme.  If I had a (colour) ICC created for me
> by a commercial provider, could I simply use that in the same way? 
> The fact that it was colour presumably wouldn't matter if I was 
using
> Advanced B&W?
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> >
> > (e) create a QTR ICC profile for the Adv B&W settings you use.  If
> you do
> > not have a spectrophotometer or densitometer perhaps you could 
send a
> > printed target to someone that can read it for you.
> > 
> > 
> > > From: garethjolly <garethjolly@b...>
> > > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:21:08 -0000
> > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] Epson Advanced B&W workflow with non Epson
> papers
> > > 
> > > I'm trying to establish a workflow using Epson advanced B&W and
> > > Hahnmuele photo rag and am having the age old problem of 
matching
> > > screen to print output.  (my screen is calibrated, incidentally)
> > > 
> > > At this stage, I don't want to use an RIP or another Epson 
printing
> > > mode.  (maybe later on, but I tend to think that if I have the
> > > Advanced B&W mode, which seems to be capable of pretty good 
results, I
> > > may as well use it...)
> > > 
> > > There seem to be a few options - including
> > > 
> > > (a) the fine tradition of trial and error - tweaking the 
imaging using
> > > the Advanced B&W controls & other controls (such as the paper 
type,
> > > tone (normal, dark, darker etc)  (any thoughts on settings, 
BTW?  What
> > > paper type should I use, for example?)
> > > 
> > > (b) printing with the 'canned' Hahnmuele photo rag ICC profile
> > > (through Print Preview, Let Photoshop determine the colours 
etc, then
> > > using Advanced B&W)
> > > 
> > > (c) creating a custom ICC by printing out a 21 step wedge then
> > > matching it by eye to the monitor (as per Paul Roark's guide at
> > > http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Monitor-Profiling.htm )then using 
(b).
> > > (But I can't seem to get the curve to preview properly despite
> > > checking the preview button... using Cs2 for windows)
> > > 
> > > (d) as a final desperate possibility, create a custom curve and 
simply
> > > loading it prior to printing...
> > > 
> > > Incidentally, can you proof on the lower GSM Hahnmuele photo 
rag, with

> > > a view to printing the finals on the 308gsm paper?
> > > 
> > > Thanks in advance
> > > Gareth
> >
>

You could use the less expensive Hahnemuhle Artproof if you can find 
it. Very similar printing characteristics to most of the of their 
other papers.

As far as the profiles go, I don't think the ABW mode uses a profile 
at all, the profile would only be for softproofing from what I 
understand. But others have more experience and will hopefully be 
able to help you out.

> From: garethjolly <garethjolly@...>

> 
> Thanks.  And I then use it with print it through Print Preview, Let
> Photoshop determine the colours etc, then use Advanced B&W?

Yes that's correct.  You plug the "missing gap" in Epson's Adv B&W workflow.


> 
> And a variant on that theme.  If I had a (colour) ICC created for me
> by a commercial provider, could I simply use that in the same way?
> The fact that it was colour presumably wouldn't matter if I was using
> Advanced B&W?

No.  Think of Adv B&W as an entirely different driver - it just happens to
be in the same shell as the colour driver.  The response behaviour of the
printer when controlled with Adv B&W is completely different from when it is
controlled by the colour driver.  As a result the stimulus-response
behaviour measured and used to generate the colour profile has zero
relevance to the Adv B&W driver.

Hope that makes sense.

> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>> 
>> (e) create a QTR ICC profile for the Adv B&W settings you use.  If
> you do
>> not have a spectrophotometer or densitometer perhaps you could send a
>> printed target to someone that can read it for you.