Digital BW, The Print

Hello,

A kind soul on DPReview directed me here, since MIS isn't answering tech support 
messages.

I've got an Epson C86 used only with MIS EZN inks. I just refilled from my 7-month old 4 
oz. bottles and suddenly my prints have a purple hue.

Is the MIS EZN ink known to go bad in the bottles over time?

Need help soon, as I have a show on Saturday and nothing but purplish prints.  :-(

Steve Kayner

Steve,

I have not used the EZN inks. But......

The "N" of EZ inks is produced by adding similar amounts of cyan + 
magenta = blue to the otherwise warm carbon inks. So, imagine if the 
pigments in your ink settled over time and the amount of settling was 
different for cyan and magenta. Now you may have filled the inks with 
a cyan-rich (or maganta-defient) fraction from the bottle.

So, I would try shaking the bottle thorougly before extracting ink 
from it. You may already have removed enough ink to throw the entire 
bottle off-kilter.

Good luck.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "kaines05" 
<kayners@p...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> 
> A kind soul on DPReview directed me here, since MIS isn't answering 
tech support 
> messages.
> 
> I've got an Epson C86 used only with MIS EZN inks. I just refilled 
from my 7-month old 4 
> oz. bottles and suddenly my prints have a purple hue.
> 
> Is the MIS EZN ink known to go bad in the bottles over time?
> 
> Need help soon, as I have a show on Saturday and nothing but 
purplish prints.  :-(

> 
> Steve Kayner
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani" <shileshjani@b...> 
wrote:
> I have not used the EZN inks. But......
> 
> The "N" of EZ inks is produced by adding similar amounts of cyan + 
> magenta = blue to the otherwise warm carbon inks. So, imagine if the 
> pigments in your ink settled over time and the amount of settling was 
> different for cyan and magenta. Now you may have filled the inks with 
> a cyan-rich (or maganta-defient) fraction from the bottle.
> 
> So, I would try shaking the bottle thorougly before extracting ink 
> from it. You may already have removed enough ink to throw the entire 
> bottle off-kilter.

OK, that's good information. I didn't know they'd colored it to get neutral. I do shake the 
bottles gently before using, but not enough to foam them up. You may be right that I've 
distorted the mix by now.

I've ordered the EZW set, but inksupply.com probably won't get it here in time for me to 
get ready for the exhibit. Time to panic. ;-)

I think I'll try refilling, with a bit more agitation this time. At this point it can't hurt.

Thanks for your help.

Steve.

Steve Kayner wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani" <shileshjani@b...> 
> wrote:
>> I have not used the EZN inks. But......
>>
>> The "N" of EZ inks is produced by adding similar amounts of cyan + 
>> magenta = blue to the otherwise warm carbon inks. So, imagine if the 
>> pigments in your ink settled over time and the amount of settling was 
>> different for cyan and magenta. Now you may have filled the inks with 
>> a cyan-rich (or maganta-defient) fraction from the bottle.
>>
>> So, I would try shaking the bottle thorougly before extracting ink 
>> from it. You may already have removed enough ink to throw the entire 
>> bottle off-kilter.
> 
> OK, that's good information. I didn't know they'd colored it to get neutral. I do shake the 
> bottles gently before using, but not enough to foam them up. You may be right that I've 
> distorted the mix by now.
> 
> I've ordered the EZW set, but inksupply.com probably won't get it here in time for me to 
> get ready for the exhibit. Time to panic. ;-)
> 
> I think I'll try refilling, with a bit more agitation this time. At this point it can't hurt.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Steve.

That may have been the case with older MIS inks but the blue 
toner used today is a single pigment as far as I know. For the 
reasons mentioned above and better fade properties the CM mix 
was replaced with a blue pigment. Like the one used in the 
R800/R1800 ink set.

                    --
           Ernst Dinkla


www.pigment-print.com
(         unvollendet         )

> ...
> >> The "N" of EZ inks is produced by adding similar amounts of cyan +
> >> magenta = blue to the otherwise warm carbon inks. So, imagine if the
> >> pigments in your ink settled over time and the amount of settling was
> >> different for cyan and magenta. Now you may have filled the inks with
> >> a cyan-rich (or maganta-defient) fraction from the bottle.
> >>
> >> So, I would try shaking the bottle thorougly before extracting ink
> >> from it. ...

> >
> > I've ordered the EZW set,...

They are very warm compared to the EZ-N.

If this was in a CIS, the lines and cart may have separated ink in them that
should be pulled through the system.


> That may have been the case with older MIS inks but the blue
> toner used today is a single pigment as far as I know. For the
> reasons mentioned above and better fade properties the CM mix
> was replaced with a blue pigment. Like the one used in the
> R800/R1800 ink set.
> 

The R800 blue (clone) ink still needs to be mixed with cyan to get the
appropriate shade of blue to offset the yellowish carbon.  It was an
incremental improvement over the magenta, but, unfortunately, did not
completely cure the problem.  I still have to print several large purge
patterns on butcher paper if my 7500 has sat unused for a while.

Most desktop printers do not have these problems because the carts are
agitated when used.  CFSs and large format printers that are not used
regularly is where most of the separation problems exist.  I used to agitate
my Piezo CIS carts to avoid this.

I'm testing some alternative pigments right now that show some promise to
improve the situation and be even more lightfast.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> 
> I'm testing some alternative pigments right now that show some 
promise to
> improve the situation and be even more lightfast.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Any idea where they come from?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani" <shileshjani@b...> 
wrote:
>  I have not used the EZN inks. But......

I received the following response from MIS:

"This may be a number of things here, the best way to start is to check your software. This 
can be done easily by printing directly from your web browser. If the problem does not 
exist from the browser you will want to reset all your settings in the program you are 
currently using and readjust from there."

My software has turned black ink purple?

Another guy suggested I reinstall the drivers, and failing that, reinstall Windows. I'm pretty 
sure Windows won't install on my Mac.  ;-)

Steve.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kayner" 
<kayners@p...> wrote:
> 
> Another guy suggested I reinstall the drivers, and failing that, 
reinstall Windows. I'm pretty 
> sure Windows won't install on my Mac.  ;-)
> 
> Steve.
>


Soon it might.

That would be like installing a Beetle engine in a Ferrari  ;-)

> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:20:33 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS B&W gone Purplish
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kayner"
> <kayners@p...> wrote:
>> 
>> Another guy suggested I reinstall the drivers, and failing that,
> reinstall Windows. I'm pretty
>> sure Windows won't install on my Mac.  ;-)
>> 
>> Steve.
>> 
> 
> 
> Soon it might.
>

LOL... The switch to Intel doesn't mean that Windoze will run on Macs. Saw a
good article on Macworld regarding the whole chipswitch --
http://www.macworld.com/2005/06/features/intelfaq/index.php. Although it's
Intel, Apple won't support it, but the article points out that a third party
developer is likely to figure out some way to get Macs to boot into Windows.

Sure would be nice if VirtualPC would run a WinXP emulation at full speed
now. I use it, but it's dog-slow.

Jim


On 1/9/06 1:30 PM, "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Subject: Re: MIS B&W gone Purplish
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kayner"
> <kayners@p...> wrote:
>> 
>> Another guy suggested I reinstall the drivers, and failing that,
> reinstall Windows. I'm pretty
>> sure Windows won't install on my Mac.  ;-)
>> 
>> Steve.
>> 
> 
> 
> Soon it might.

Update:

MIS Assoc. sent an email informing me that: "We are temporarily out of stock one or more 
of the items you ordered."

I called them and was told the spongeless carts were out of stock. So I ordered spongy 
cartridges instead, but they still indicated a two day delay in shipping. So I asked if they'd 
expedite, since I was forced to buy more ink due to the purple-problem. They said no. 
They also refused to upgrade from two-day to overnight shipping.

They did offer to examine the puplish inks and see if it's a defect, but I doubt they'll offer 
anything on that. They don't seem very service oriented. Business must be very good.

Is the Lyson b&w ink any good? I'm considering switching to my Canon S9000.

Steve.

You're referring to the way a Beetle engine runs forever, and a
Ferrarie is more appearance than function?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:

>
> That would be like installing a Beetle engine in a Ferrari  ;-)
> 
> 
> > From: Greg <dfaprinting@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:20:33 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS B&W gone Purplish
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kayner"
> > <kayners@p...> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Another guy suggested I reinstall the drivers, and failing that,
> > reinstall Windows. I'm pretty
> >> sure Windows won't install on my Mac.  ;-)
> >> 
> >> Steve.
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > Soon it might.
> >
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kayner" 
<kayners@p...> wrote:
> 
> Is the Lyson b&w ink any good? I'm considering switching to my Canon 
S9000.
> 


If it's the same thing that they used for the test print I ordered, I 
would have to say ACK! Never seen so much metamerism from a dye ink. 
The test print was their Digital Darkroom (or Daylight Darkroom, I 
really can't remember since it left such a bad impression).

I got UT2 inks early, and I seem to recall that there was a formulation
change (or a bad batch) that could be the reason for magenta tones i've
been getting. However, MIS says there never was a change. Paul, can you
please clarify?

thanks

matt

I got UT2 inks early, and I seem to recall that there was a formulation
change (or a bad batch) that could be the reason for magenta tones i've
been getting. However, MIS says there never was a change. Paul, can you
please clarify?

thanks

matt

sorry....

Matt,

> I got UT2 inks early, and I seem to recall that there was a formulation
> change (or a bad batch) that could be the reason for magenta tones i've
> been getting. However, MIS says there never was a change. Paul, can you
> please clarify?

I have not heard of a bad batch recently.  I, too, however recall that there
was a bad mix sometime in the last year. 

The UT2 inks have had a few re-formulations.  The toners were reformulated
to include the R800 clone blue and eliminate the magenta, and the new base
came in later.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thank you, Paul.

Rob at MIS clarified that the bad batch was only pre-filled carts, not
bottles. I'll have to find another explanation for my magenta output.
(FWIW, I got 4 oz bottles 3/04)

somewhat OT, MIS has posted (beta) profiles for the 1280 and their MIS pro
inkset, so i plan to use the spongeless carts and swap color and B+W inks
in my 1280...it might be time to sell my trusty 1270!

Matt

> Matt,
>
>> I got UT2 inks early, and I seem to recall that there was a formulation
>> change (or a bad batch) that could be the reason for magenta tones i've
>> been getting. However, MIS says there never was a change. Paul, can you
>> please clarify?
>
> I have not heard of a bad batch recently.  I, too, however recall that
> there
> was a bad mix sometime in the last year.
>
> The UT2 inks have had a few re-formulations.  The toners were reformulated
> to include the R800 clone blue and eliminate the magenta, and the new base
> came in later.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>

> 
> Rob at MIS clarified that the bad batch was only pre-filled carts, not
> bottles. I'll have to find another explanation for my magenta output.
> (FWIW, I got 4 oz bottles 3/04)
> 

It would not hurt to make swabs of inks you get.  If the output is good with
one set and not with another you'll then have some way to see if the inks
are mixed differently -- or, more likely, the batch of input inks were
slightly different than that used for the previous mix. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Definitely agree with this: I tried to use Lyson Quadblacks for a while, but
prints suffered terribly from metamerism whether on matte or glossy papers:
chocolate brown under tungsten and green under daylight. I also never
managed to get a good dmax.

The MIS inks are night and day compared with Lyson.


________________________________________

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Sent: 10 January 2006 14:42
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS B&W gone Purplish

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kayner" 
<kayners@p...> wrote:
> 
> Is the Lyson b&w ink any good? I'm considering switching to my Canon 
S9000.
> 


If it's the same thing that they used for the test print I ordered, I 
would have to say ACK! Never seen so much metamerism from a dye ink. 
The test print was their Digital Darkroom (or Daylight Darkroom, I 
really can't remember since it left such a bad impression).




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