Digital BW, The Print

As a newcomer to digital B&W I was encouraged to see a note in this
forum by Paul Roark (#71625) that the Epson R220 can handle (presumably
MIS) variable-tone inks.  In my search for a dedicated printer this
causes me to rank the 220 above the 1280, which seemed to have a
greater range of operation but has gotten some bad press here for its
tendency to clog.

Where, though, is there a description of the usage of variable-tone inks
in the R220?  Or is that all really in the experimental stage?  I would
like to jump to variable-tone printing without investing in monotone, if
that is feasible (inks, I see, are not cheap), and have an interest and
experience on the computer side and enjoy a technical challenge, though
B&W is a new game for me.

I would be grateful for any comments.

Frank

If you are willing to fill your own cartridges -- and this is a simple
task with the spongeless cartridges that MIS sells -- you can
certainly use MIS UT2 or UT7 in an Epson R200. MIS told me they don't
support this, but I experienced no problems using UT7 in my R200. That
said, I was not able to achieve the variability I needed just by using
the Epson driver sliders. Drastic curves were required, and since I
have gone to a lot of trouble to linearize my output this doen't work
for me. Creating ICCs is another possible way to use the variable tone
inks. Paul has a lot of good info on his web site about the R220 --
check it out:
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/
 
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "vze28dv3"
<frank.h.baker@v...> wrote:

>
> As a newcomer to digital B&W I was encouraged to see a note in this
> forum by Paul Roark (#71625) that the Epson R220 can handle (presumably
> MIS) variable-tone inks.  In my search for a dedicated printer this
> causes me to rank the 220 above the 1280, which seemed to have a
> greater range of operation but has gotten some bad press here for its
> tendency to clog.
> 
> Where, though, is there a description of the usage of variable-tone inks
> in the R220?  Or is that all really in the experimental stage?  I would
> like to jump to variable-tone printing without investing in monotone, if
> that is feasible (inks, I see, are not cheap), and have an interest and
> experience on the computer side and enjoy a technical challenge, though
> B&W is a new game for me.
> 
> I would be grateful for any comments.
> 
> Frank
>

Frank,

> ... the Epson R220 can handle (presumably
> MIS) variable-tone inks.

Definitely, I use UT7 in it occasionally.  What that means is that I load
the UT7 cool inks -- M & LM -- into the M & LM carts that fit a 220.  The
UT-R2 warm inks are the same as the UT7 C & LC.  So, you can buy they
pre-loaded or in bulk.  The UT7 LK is obviously of no use and not needed.  I
don't use the UT7 sepia either.  I put a second LC in the Y spot (for now).

>  In my search for a dedicated printer this
> causes me to rank the 220 above the 1280, ...

If you don't need 13" prints, I'd stay with the 220.  It's a more modern
printer.



> 
> Where, though, is there a description of the usage of variable-tone inks
> in the R220?  Or is that all really in the experimental stage? 

I have some curves, but I have not put together an entire package (because
something else going to be in that spot).  However, I'm happy to share my
R220 UT7 curves.

> I would
> like to jump to variable-tone printing without investing in monotone, if
> that is feasible

It is.

> (inks, I see, are not cheap),

Bulk MIS inks are.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>
> Frank,
> 
> > ... the Epson R220 can handle (presumably
> > MIS) variable-tone inks.
> 
> Definitely, I use UT7 in it occasionally.  What that means is that I
load
> the UT7 cool inks -- M & LM -- into the M & LM carts that fit a 220.
 The
> UT-R2 warm inks are the same as the UT7 C & LC.  So, you can buy they
> pre-loaded or in bulk.  The UT7 LK is obviously of no use and not
needed.  I
> don't use the UT7 sepia either.  I put a second LC in the Y spot
(for now).
> 
> >  In my search for a dedicated printer this
> > causes me to rank the 220 above the 1280, ...
> 
> If you don't need 13" prints, I'd stay with the 220.  It's a more modern
> printer.
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Where, though, is there a description of the usage of
variable-tone inks
> > in the R220?  Or is that all really in the experimental stage? 
> 
> I have some curves, but I have not put together an entire package
(because
> something else going to be in that spot).  However, I'm happy to
share my
> R220 UT7 curves.
> 
> > I would
> > like to jump to variable-tone printing without investing in
monotone, if
> > that is feasible
> 
> It is.
> 
> > (inks, I see, are not cheap),
> 
> Bulk MIS inks are.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Paul--

I've been experimenting with a C86 and then an R220 with EZ inks, and
with a 1280 with UT2 inks.  Haven't done rigorous systematic testing,
so I'm not sure, but when using the EZ inks and Epson drivers, it
seems to me that the sliders have less effect with the R220 than they
do with the C86.  

Using the UT2 inks with the R220 sounds like a *very* attractive
setup, as both the C86 and the R220 have performed better (finer
detail in the prints and with greater ease of use) for me than has the
1280.  

My question is, will using Epson driver and sliders with the R220
provide at least approximately the same amount of control over the
range of tones as that same approach provides with the 1280?

I realize that curves and other approaches are available, but I'm very
pleased with my workflow and with the prints I've gotten out of all
three printers.  Thus, I'm not looking to make any drastic
adjustments, just want to be sure that with the R220 I'll effectively
have the option, based on the subject matter, of cooling off or
warming up the look of the print.

Thanks,
Jim Natale

> ... but when using the EZ inks and Epson drivers, it
> seems to me that the sliders have less effect with the R220 than they
> do with the C86.

I think you're right.  The slider idea was originally used for the 1160 with
the variable-tone inkset, and it worked reasonably well -- over a narrow
range, of course.  With the hextone printers, however, the ramps seem to get
messed up much faster.  You'll notice for the 220 I really don't use them at
all with the R2 inkset.  (See
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/R220_R2_Readme.htm) 


> 
> Using the UT2 inks with the R220 sounds like a *very* attractive
> setup,...

I now prefer the UT7 inks (lower gamut toners) and ink positions.  

> 
> My question is, will using Epson driver and sliders with the R220
> provide at least approximately the same amount of control over the
> range of tones as that same approach provides with the 1280?

Perhaps.  It really depends on whether you use the sepia.  That is where
part of the UT2 slider range comes from.  Since I no longer use the sepia
like that, the sliders with what I actually use don't give as much range as
the original UT2.

I used the sliders with an ICC for linearization with the R220 with UT7 with
a second LC in the Y position and was able to get a mild range around the
neutral point.

I also have ICCs that control the UT7 on the 220.  That's the easiest and
most flexible route so far.


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Philip:

> Drastic curves were required, and since I
> have gone to a lot of trouble to linearize my output this doen't   
> work
> for me.

Thanks for responding to my query.  Thinking about your difficulties
getting an adequate range of adjustment, could you use a RIP to better
achieve your the variability you need?  That seems to be the third
method, is it not, along with curves and ICC profiles, for controlling
the print process?

Frank Baker
Baltimore, MD

Thank you.  Very helpful.  Also, thanks for your work with the
inksets.  Sounds as if there are at least two or three viable options
with the R220.  After posting it occurred to me that I've tried EZW in
the Y position, and swapping EZW combinations into the various C and M
slots would be another way--I suppose the quickest and most
flexible--for tweaking the look a little more, which might be enough.

Will probably experiment with the UT2 and UT7 too, though.  Good
indoor activity for the wintertime.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> > ... but when using the EZ inks and Epson drivers, it
> > seems to me that the sliders have less effect with the R220 than they
> > do with the C86.
> 
> I think you're right.  The slider idea was originally used for the
1160 with
> the variable-tone inkset, and it worked reasonably well -- over a narrow
> range, of course.  With the hextone printers, however, the ramps
seem to get
> messed up much faster.  You'll notice for the 220 I really don't use
them at
> all with the R2 inkset.  (See
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/R220_R2_Readme.htm) 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Using the UT2 inks with the R220 sounds like a *very* attractive
> > setup,...
> 
> I now prefer the UT7 inks (lower gamut toners) and ink positions.  
> 
> > 
> > My question is, will using Epson driver and sliders with the R220
> > provide at least approximately the same amount of control over the
> > range of tones as that same approach provides with the 1280?
> 
> Perhaps.  It really depends on whether you use the sepia.  That is where
> part of the UT2 slider range comes from.  Since I no longer use the
sepia
> like that, the sliders with what I actually use don't give as much
range as
> the original UT2.
> 
> I used the sliders with an ICC for linearization with the R220 with
UT7 with
> a second LC in the Y position and was able to get a mild range
around the
> neutral point.
> 
> I also have ICCs that control the UT7 on the 220.  That's the
easiest and

> most flexible route so far.
> 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Paul,

Thanks for the pointers.  I now plan to get an R220 and would be
grateful for your curves.  I wonder if the  extensions given in
Richard Lynch's book "The Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements 3" might
be used to play with curves, e.g.  using the procedures in
Hobman's tutorial referenced on the MIS site.

I have a couple of questions raised by your message:

-- Should the black cartridge position have the UTK (UT7) ink?

-- What is the reason for using the UT7 ink set?  I would have thought
the UT2 was appropriate, since it was developed for a 6 ink printer.
Well, I really don't understand the rational of a lot of these
procedures.

Frank

Frank H. Baker
Baltimore, MD

This may not sound like an intelligent question, but I am new to digital 
printing.

I use a brand new Epson R220, and am experimenting with printing using MIS 
UT-R2 inks on EEM paper.  I have read almost everything I can find about 
printing, etc. from this list, as well as a few web sites.

My question is, do I need to convert a file into black and white before I 
print it?  I have used Photoshop 7, done curves, converted and printed.  I 
also, just now, sent an image directly to the printer from Picasa II, with 
no intermediary processing.  Both prints are nearly identical.

I have done B&W darkroom processing for many years, so am more comfortable 
with that process.
Thanks for any help on this most likely simple question.

Frank Vincent

With the inksets that use the same dark inks in the C & M spots and the same
light inks in the LC, LM, and Y spots (like the R2 inkset), color files will
often print very well.  Sometimes, however, the separation of tones that
looks good in the color image will be too small in B&W.  So, it's a good
idea to convert to B&W to check this out.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank
> Vincent
> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 7:11 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Epson R220 printing
> 
> This may not sound like an intelligent question, but I am new to digital
> printing.
> 
> I use a brand new Epson R220, and am experimenting with printing using MIS
> UT-R2 inks on EEM paper.  I have read almost everything I can find about
> printing, etc. from this list, as well as a few web sites.
> 
> My question is, do I need to convert a file into black and white before I
> print it?  I have used Photoshop 7, done curves, converted and printed.  I
> also, just now, sent an image directly to the printer from Picasa II, with
> no intermediary processing.  Both prints are nearly identical.
> 
> I have done B&W darkroom processing for many years, so am more comfortable
> with that process.
> Thanks for any help on this most likely simple question.
> 
> Frank Vincent
> 
> 
> 
> 
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