Digital BW, The Print

I am considering getting a second-hand 7600 and using it as a
dedicated black and white printer using a third party black and white
inkset such as the Peizography K7 or one the MIS inksets.

I've not used a 7600 before, is there any thing I should be concerned
with?  Should the ink cartridges be removed before transporting the
printer? Are there issues with clogging (with the pigmented b&w inks)
if it is not used on a daily basis, and if so are there any useful
strategies for dealing with this? I've used Peizotone inks with a CIS
in an 1160 in the past.  When it worked properly it produced
impressive output (unfortunately, it didn't work properly often)

Finally, does anyone have any preferences between the Peizography inks
and the MIS inks?  In your opinion, Does one seem to clog less, does
one produce better results?  Any differences in archival quality and
in attainable Dmax?  Does one supplier have a better performing cartridge?

Thanks for the input.

There is very fine work being done with both Cone and MIS inks.  You'll need to see examples and make your own subjective decission.  After all, it's not just putting some black pigment on some paper.  The real fine work takes into consideration the balance of the ink tone against the color of the paper, the finish, etc.  Not too much of this is very objective.
   
  The objective part is just measuring dmax, etc.  That's just a single aspect of a really fine b&w print.
   
  I'm sure you'll get comments from some on this forum that are known for their fine work with both inkset.  The hunt has to be part of the fun.
   
  Tom Baker
Lotusm50 <LotusM50@...> wrote:
  I am considering getting a second-hand 7600 and using it as a
dedicated black and white printer using a third party black and white
inkset such as the Peizography K7 or one the MIS inksets.

I've not used a 7600 before, is there any thing I should be concerned
with?  Should the ink cartridges be removed before transporting the
printer? Are there issues with clogging (with the pigmented b&w inks)
if it is not used on a daily basis, and if so are there any useful
strategies for dealing with this? I've used Peizotone inks with a CIS
in an 1160 in the past.  When it worked properly it produced
impressive output (unfortunately, it didn't work properly often)

Finally, does anyone have any preferences between the Peizography inks
and the MIS inks?  In your opinion, Does one seem to clog less, does
one produce better results?  Any differences in archival quality and
in attainable Dmax?  Does one supplier have a better performing cartridge?

Thanks for the input.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I won't try to suggest which inkset would be best, or even which 
method of utilization would be best. What I will tell you is that it 
would be best if you can get the printer flushed with cleaning fluid 
before it is shipped. This will reduce the likelyhood that there will 
be a clog formed during the shipping. MIS, WeInk, Inkjetcolorsystems 
all have cleaning carts for that printer. I would suggest running the 
cleaning fluid until there is (reltively) no color on a printed page. 
Then you can either drain the printer, or leave it for shipping. I 
would also suggest that you use (or buy) the proper shipping 
container!!! This will be extremely important if using a common 
freight carrier.

I will also suggest an alternative... The parts for the 7600 are 
expensive compared to parts for the 7500. Heads will run nearly $500 
for the 7600 (one head assembly), and $100 for half of what is needed 
on the 7500 (two head assemblies with 3 heads each). The cost of a 
good used 7500 should be significantly less than the cost of a used 
7600. The difference in quality if you choose a 6 black system like 
the newest Piezography inks will be hard to see. As your first foray 
into a multi black dedicated B/W "large" format printer, the 7500 
would make a good choice.

Lately, for the price difference, you could by a used 9500 (44 
inches) for about the same as the price of a good used 7600. Just 
something to think about.

Thanks.  I'll be picking the printer up myself and transporting it in
my station wagon. The epson ink cartridges currently installed are
almost full.  Would the same shipping precautions your recommend apply
in this case?

I would be interesting in knowing what the going prices are for the
7500, 7600, and 9600 for comparision.  I'm getting the 7600 for less
than half it's original cost -- and it's got the stand, a nearly full
set of ink, and a new maintenance tank.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:

>
> I won't try to suggest which inkset would be best, or even which 
> method of utilization would be best. What I will tell you is that it 
> would be best if you can get the printer flushed with cleaning fluid 
> before it is shipped. This will reduce the likelyhood that there will 
> be a clog formed during the shipping. MIS, WeInk, Inkjetcolorsystems 
> all have cleaning carts for that printer. I would suggest running the 
> cleaning fluid until there is (reltively) no color on a printed page. 
> Then you can either drain the printer, or leave it for shipping. I 
> would also suggest that you use (or buy) the proper shipping 
> container!!! This will be extremely important if using a common 
> freight carrier.
> 
> I will also suggest an alternative... The parts for the 7600 are 
> expensive compared to parts for the 7500. Heads will run nearly $500 
> for the 7600 (one head assembly), and $100 for half of what is needed 
> on the 7500 (two head assemblies with 3 heads each). The cost of a 
> good used 7500 should be significantly less than the cost of a used 
> 7600. The difference in quality if you choose a 6 black system like 
> the newest Piezography inks will be hard to see. As your first foray 
> into a multi black dedicated B/W "large" format printer, the 7500 
> would make a good choice.
> 
> Lately, for the price difference, you could by a used 9500 (44 
> inches) for about the same as the price of a good used 7600. Just 
> something to think about.
>

I've seen some more K7 output recently. Man, it's gorgeous. If I had
another 7 ink printer around I'd get it in a hearbeat. It's a serious
step up as far as I'm concerned.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Lotusm50"
<LotusM50@s...> wrote:
>
> I am considering getting a second-hand 7600 and using it as a
> dedicated black and white printer using a third party black and white
> inkset such as the Peizography K7 or one the MIS inksets.
> 
> I've not used a 7600 before, is there any thing I should be concerned
> with?  Should the ink cartridges be removed before transporting the
> printer? Are there issues with clogging (with the pigmented b&w inks)
> if it is not used on a daily basis, and if so are there any useful
> strategies for dealing with this? I've used Peizotone inks with a CIS
> in an 1160 in the past.  When it worked properly it produced
> impressive output (unfortunately, it didn't work properly often)
> 
> Finally, does anyone have any preferences between the Peizography inks
> and the MIS inks?  In your opinion, Does one seem to clog less, does
> one produce better results?  Any differences in archival quality and
> in attainable Dmax?  Does one supplier have a better performing
cartridge?

> 
> Thanks for the input.
>

I transported my 9600 from Phoenix to the California coast in a UHaul.  Epson said that as long as the printer wouldn't be out of operation very long ( in my case 3 weeks) I didn't need to go through the draining, etc. procedure.  They said that was only necesssarey if the printer were going to be stored.  I did get some air in the Cyan line. But that was cleared with about three regular head cleanings.  It's worked perfectly.
   
  Tom Baker

Lotusm50 <LotusM50@...> wrote:
  Thanks.  I'll be picking the printer up myself and transporting it in
my station wagon. The epson ink cartridges currently installed are
almost full.  Would the same shipping precautions your recommend apply
in this case?

I would be interesting in knowing what the going prices are for the
7500, 7600, and 9600 for comparision.  I'm getting the 7600 for less
than half it's original cost -- and it's got the stand, a nearly full
set of ink, and a new maintenance tank.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
>
> I won't try to suggest which inkset would be best, or even which 
> method of utilization would be best. What I will tell you is that it 
> would be best if you can get the printer flushed with cleaning fluid 
> before it is shipped. This will reduce the likelyhood that there will 
> be a clog formed during the shipping. MIS, WeInk, Inkjetcolorsystems 
> all have cleaning carts for that printer. I would suggest running the 
> cleaning fluid until there is (reltively) no color on a printed page. 
> Then you can either drain the printer, or leave it for shipping. I 
> would also suggest that you use (or buy) the proper shipping 
> container!!! This will be extremely important if using a common 
> freight carrier.
> 
> I will also suggest an alternative... The parts for the 7600 are 
> expensive compared to parts for the 7500. Heads will run nearly $500 
> for the 7600 (one head assembly), and $100 for half of what is needed 
> on the 7500 (two head assemblies with 3 heads each). The cost of a 
> good used 7500 should be significantly less than the cost of a used 
> 7600. The difference in quality if you choose a 6 black system like 
> the newest Piezography inks will be hard to see. As your first foray 
> into a multi black dedicated B/W "large" format printer, the 7500 
> would make a good choice.
> 
> Lately, for the price difference, you could by a used 9500 (44 
> inches) for about the same as the price of a good used 7600. Just 
> something to think about.
>






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If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




  SPONSORED LINKS 
        Digital wedding photography   Learn digital photography   Digital photography college     Digital photography   Digital photography web site   Digital photography course 
    
---------------------------------
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

    
    Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
    
    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    
    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 

    
---------------------------------
  

  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you are transporting it, and the length won't be too long, you can 
probably avoid the purging. But I would still purge and clean the 
system before putting a grayscale ink set in it. But you may not need 
to go that far, just what I would do.

Here is another idea. :)

A new 7800 8-color printer with stand, new set of inks, and a 1 yr 
extendable warranty retails for $2995.00. Many dealers will discount 
the price and include free shipping. Also inventory must be getting 
ahead of sales as Epson has a $500.00 rebate going on if you purchase 
$400.oo of Epson paper with it. If you are going to use Epson paper 
you need it anyway, if not you can sell the new rolls without much 
loss together with the unused color ink cartridges if you will be 
using a B&W inkset. Dont have to buy 7 cleaner carts either. Also if 
you wish to do both B&W and color you may be happy with Epsons 
drivers or Imageprint. The included warranty can be very valuable if 
you have troubles, you didnt say if the used one had any warranty or 
extended warranty or what kind of use its had. For example, if it has 
a bad head or need a service call, all of your savings will evaporate 
and then some.
 You didnt say whether "less than half" was based on the original 
printer price or $2995 or based on printer and stand of about $3295.

So if you sell the paper and inks maybe you can have one for $1900-
$2000 delivered, clean and read to install a B&W inkset with a 
warranty. More than your used one but maybe a better deal.

Larry Burk



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Lotusm50" 
<LotusM50@s...> wrote:
>
> Thanks.  I'll be picking the printer up myself and transporting it 
in
> my station wagon. The epson ink cartridges currently installed are
> almost full.  Would the same shipping precautions your recommend 
apply
> in this case?
> 
> I would be interesting in knowing what the going prices are for the
> 7500, 7600, and 9600 for comparision.  I'm getting the 7600 for less
> than half it's original cost -- and it's got the stand, a nearly 
full
> set of ink, and a new maintenance tank.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
> <dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I won't try to suggest which inkset would be best, or even which 
> > method of utilization would be best. What I will tell you is that 
it 
> > would be best if you can get the printer flushed with cleaning 
fluid 
> > before it is shipped. This will reduce the likelyhood that there 
will 
> > be a clog formed during the shipping. MIS, WeInk, 
Inkjetcolorsystems 
> > all have cleaning carts for that printer. I would suggest running 
the 
> > cleaning fluid until there is (reltively) no color on a printed 
page. 
> > Then you can either drain the printer, or leave it for shipping.

Interesting idea.  The one thing that I am concerned about with the
used one is the head (and I have just asked specifically about it).  
   But the price is less than half the price w/o the stand -- about
$1200.  If I need to replace the heads, then it gets close to your
option.  One question about the new Epson.  If you are using non-Epson
third party inks does it void the warranty?


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Burk"
<photo692002@y...> wrote:

>
> Here is another idea. :)
> 
> A new 7800 8-color printer with stand, new set of inks, and a 1 yr 
> extendable warranty retails for $2995.00. Many dealers will discount 
> the price and include free shipping. Also inventory must be getting 
> ahead of sales as Epson has a $500.00 rebate going on if you purchase 
> $400.oo of Epson paper with it. If you are going to use Epson paper 
> you need it anyway, if not you can sell the new rolls without much 
> loss together with the unused color ink cartridges if you will be 
> using a B&W inkset. Dont have to buy 7 cleaner carts either. Also if 
> you wish to do both B&W and color you may be happy with Epsons 
> drivers or Imageprint. The included warranty can be very valuable if 
> you have troubles, you didnt say if the used one had any warranty or 
> extended warranty or what kind of use its had. For example, if it has 
> a bad head or need a service call, all of your savings will evaporate 
> and then some.
>  You didnt say whether "less than half" was based on the original 
> printer price or $2995 or based on printer and stand of about $3295.
> 
> So if you sell the paper and inks maybe you can have one for $1900-
> $2000 delivered, clean and read to install a B&W inkset with a 
> warranty. More than your used one but maybe a better deal.
> 
> Larry Burk
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Lotusm50" 
> <LotusM50@s...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks.  I'll be picking the printer up myself and transporting it 
> in
> > my station wagon. The epson ink cartridges currently installed are
> > almost full.  Would the same shipping precautions your recommend 
> apply
> > in this case?
> > 
> > I would be interesting in knowing what the going prices are for the
> > 7500, 7600, and 9600 for comparision.  I'm getting the 7600 for less
> > than half it's original cost -- and it's got the stand, a nearly 
> full
> > set of ink, and a new maintenance tank.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
> > <dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I won't try to suggest which inkset would be best, or even which 
> > > method of utilization would be best. What I will tell you is that 
> it 
> > > would be best if you can get the printer flushed with cleaning 
> fluid 
> > > before it is shipped. This will reduce the likelyhood that there 
> will 
> > > be a clog formed during the shipping. MIS, WeInk, 
> Inkjetcolorsystems 
> > > all have cleaning carts for that printer. I would suggest running 
> the 
> > > cleaning fluid until there is (reltively) no color on a printed 
> page. 
> > > Then you can either drain the printer, or leave it for shipping.
>

Several people on this list and others have the opinion Epson cant deny 
warranty coverage unless they can prove its the third party inks fault. 
Others have thought that to avoid the hassle you could keep the Epson 
color carts and reload before tech arrives if the trouble points to 
clogged heads or similar. Im not a lawyer and AFAIK they werent either 
so for me Id just do it and argue later if necessary. :)
If you go for the new 7800 be sure to buy the paper and printer on the 
same invoice to get rebate. Some dealers like mpex.com have very good 
price on Epson paper and inks delivered and are negotiable on printer 
price. 
You might also ask what the print counter shows on the 7600.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, "Lotusm50" 
<LotusM50@s...> wrote:

>
> Interesting idea.  The one thing that I am concerned about with the
> used one is the head (and I have just asked specifically about it).  
>    But the price is less than half the price w/o the stand -- about
> $1200.  If I need to replace the heads, then it gets close to your
> option.  One question about the new Epson.  If you are using non-Epson
> third party inks does it void the warranty?
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Burk"
> <photo692002@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Here is another idea. :)

My concern about head replacement comes from the printer counter which
shows over 1400 feet printed.  I've heard of the heads being replaced
at much lower quantities.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Burk"
<photo692002@y...> wrote:

>
> Several people on this list and others have the opinion Epson cant deny 
> warranty coverage unless they can prove its the third party inks fault. 
> Others have thought that to avoid the hassle you could keep the Epson 
> color carts and reload before tech arrives if the trouble points to 
> clogged heads or similar. Im not a lawyer and AFAIK they werent either 
> so for me Id just do it and argue later if necessary. :)
> If you go for the new 7800 be sure to buy the paper and printer on the 
> same invoice to get rebate. Some dealers like mpex.com have very good 
> price on Epson paper and inks delivered and are negotiable on printer 
> price. 
> You might also ask what the print counter shows on the 7600.
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Lotusm50" 
> <LotusM50@s...> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting idea.  The one thing that I am concerned about with the
> > used one is the head (and I have just asked specifically about it).  
> >    But the price is less than half the price w/o the stand -- about
> > $1200.  If I need to replace the heads, then it gets close to your
> > option.  One question about the new Epson.  If you are using non-Epson
> > third party inks does it void the warranty?
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Burk"
> > <photo692002@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Here is another idea. :)
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Lotusm50" 
<LotusM50@s...> wrote:
>
> My concern about head replacement comes from the printer counter 
which
> shows over 1400 feet printed.  I've heard of the heads being 
replaced
> at much lower quantities.
> 


There is a counter that shows when the head wants to be replaced. 
Maybe you just ignore it, maybe you replace the head, hard to say. At 
the price of the head (around $500) and the cost of the labor (prices 
are now around $150-$200 per hour, 4 hour minimum plus travel for 
some places) and around 2 hours to actually replace the head and do 
the alignments, you might want to consider whether this printer is 
worth the money. If you can change the head yourself, then it's not 
such an issue.

The counter is available right from the front panel, in the same area 
as the current ink level, waste ink tank, etc. The user manual should 
indicate how to find it, and is available fromthe Epson download 
area. If not I can look up the procedure in the service manual.