Digital BW, The Print

Hello All,

Just saw on DpReview a PMA announcement of HP's new 8-cart 13" pigment
printer, Vivera pigment inks and new papers (glossy and matte). 
They are claiming best longevity, and the news article contains this
quote:

Henry Wilhelm, Wilhelm Imaging Research Inc., (WIR) said, "With WIR
Display Permanence Ratings of more than 200 years, prints made with
the HP Photosmart Pro B9180 A3+ Photo Printer, Vivera pigment inks,
and select HP glossy photo papers and matte fine art papers set a
new benchmark for overall colour print permanence. When displayed
framed under glass, prints made with the new printer, inks, and papers
are among the longest-lasting prints in the entire 130-year history of
colour photography.

Things are getting interestinger and interestinger.

I wonder what this inks are like on non-HP papers?


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:
>

> 
> I wonder what this inks are like on non-HP papers?
> 
> 
Hello Clayton,

According to WIR, even longer, to 250 years. But I didn't read the
fine print, there must be some caveats in there.

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hp/PhotosmartProB9180.html

Cheers,
André

> ... HP's new 8-cart 13" pigment
> printer, Vivera pigment inks and new papers (glossy and matte).
> They are claiming best longevity, ...

In that past I'd heard that the bubble jet heads could not pump the higher
viscosity inks needed for pigments.  Now Canon and HP announce pigment
printers at the same time.  Has there been an advance in the technology?
If so, what was it?

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Could the new HP and Canon printers be very fast too? It takes me
forever to do a 40x70 on my 9600 at highest quality. When you've got
ten of them to do it can really eat into your time?

john



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> > ... HP's new 8-cart 13" pigment
> > printer, Vivera pigment inks and new papers (glossy and matte).
> > They are claiming best longevity, ...
> 
> In that past I'd heard that the bubble jet heads could not pump the
higher

> viscosity inks needed for pigments.  Now Canon and HP announce pigment
> printers at the same time.  Has there been an advance in the technology?
> If so, what was it?
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

> Could the new HP and Canon printers be very fast too? ...

Don't know.

I really like the "semi-permanent" HP heads that, "if necessary, may be
changed by the user."  Also the HP has "Densitometric closed-loop printer
calibration" built in.

This could turn into a really nice slug-fest amount the giants.  The bad
news may be that "when the elephants fight, it's the mice that die."

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

John-

I noticed your comment about the 9800's slow printing speed; we're 
experiencing similar problems. If your interested, contact me off list. I'd like to 
compare experiences.



Bill Kennedy
Associate Professor of Photography
St. Edward's University
Austin, Texas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> > ... HP's new 8-cart 13" pigment
> > printer, Vivera pigment inks and new papers (glossy and matte).
> > They are claiming best longevity, ...
> 
> In that past I'd heard that the bubble jet heads could not pump the 
higher
> viscosity inks needed for pigments.  Now Canon and HP announce pigment
> printers at the same time.  Has there been an advance in the 
technology?
> If so, what was it?
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Encad never had a problem with pigment inks, and they were using an HP 
head when they started. The gamut was lower. The problem was kepping 
the ink cool enough not to scorch the pigment. Some of those Encad inks 
had a very long outdoor longevity, as that was what they were designed 
for.

That said, I'm sure that HP and Canon have found new ways of doing 
things that will get the gamut back up.

I wonder if these new heads are "strong" enough for UV cure inks?????

I have an HP10ps with the built-in calibration.   It seems to work pretty well.  I've not compared it to custom built profiles, however.  That system probably isn't very useful for b&w purposes, however.
   
  Tom Baker

Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
  > Could the new HP and Canon printers be very fast too? ...

Don't know.

I really like the "semi-permanent" HP heads that, "if necessary, may be
changed by the user."  Also the HP has "Densitometric closed-loop printer
calibration" built in.

This could turn into a really nice slug-fest amount the giants.  The bad
news may be that "when the elephants fight, it's the mice that die."

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul,

Keith will know; it will all be in the patents, I assume.

Bob Frost, Secret Agent.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>

In that past I'd heard that the bubble jet heads could not pump the higher
viscosity inks needed for pigments.  Now Canon and HP announce pigment
printers at the same time.  Has there been an advance in the technology?
If so, what was it?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
 I wonder what this inks are like on non-HP papers?


Regards,
Clayton<

That's the big question.

I hope that the new Canon and HP pigment printers can be used on 
other media than their own with great results and longevity.

If so, we will benefit greatly as this will apply GREAT pressure on 
Epson.

So far, Epson has a "proven" product, the others don't.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker
<tbaker1328@...> wrote:
>
> I have an HP10ps with the built-in calibration.   It
> seems to work pretty well.  I've not compared it to
> custom built profiles, however.  That system probably
> isn't very useful for b&w purposes, however.

My Designjet 30 has proven to be very reliable as
well. However you need a RIP to print on non-HP media
as well as b&w. It's b&w via a RIP is very good.
 
> Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> > I really like the "semi-permanent" HP heads that, "if
> > necessary, may be changed by the user."

This is one of the reasons I switched to HP. This
printer is extremely frugal in terms of ink usage.

> > Also the HP has "Densitometric closed-loop printer
> > calibration" built in.

You still need a RIP for best output, even for HP
swellable papers.

> > 
> > This could turn into a really nice slug-fest amount
> > the giants.  The bad news may be that "when the
> > elephants fight, it's the mice that die."

Sigh.  For now I'm enjoying printing on my first HP
and let's hope things won't take turn for the worse
any time soon. With this printer I won't mind
spending $120 for brand new printheads every 2.5
years. Still I wonder if the new pigment-based Vivera
ink/printheads will be as reliable as the current dye-
based version, and be able to print on more media.

--nick

Paul Roark wrote:
>> ... HP's new 8-cart 13" pigment
>> printer, Vivera pigment inks and new papers (glossy and matte).
>> They are claiming best longevity, ...
> 
> In that past I'd heard that the bubble jet heads could not pump the higher
> viscosity inks needed for pigments.  Now Canon and HP announce pigment
> printers at the same time.  Has there been an advance in the technology?
> If so, what was it?
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 

Encads and HPs have had pigment inks for years already in the 
wide format market, Canon has it for 6 months in teh market 
with the W8400P. It could be that the new inks are more user 
friendly now and HP and Canon decided that it was usable for 
desktop models too.

Ernst

                    --
           Ernst Dinkla


www.pigment-print.com
(         unvollendet         )

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" <cj@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> 
> Just saw on DpReview a PMA announcement of HP's new 8-cart 13" pigment
> printer, Vivera pigment inks and new papers (glossy and matte). 
> They are claiming best longevity, and the news article contains this
> quote:
> "I wonder what this inks are like on non-HP papers?"

The HP web site reads that Hahnemuele (sp?) has developed some paper for this printer.

> Henry Wilhelm, Wilhelm Imaging Research Inc., (WIR) said, "With WIR
> Display Permanence Ratings of more than 200 years, prints made with
> the HP Photosmart Pro B9180 A3+ Photo Printer, Vivera pigment inks,
> and select HP glossy photo papers and matte fine art papers set a
> new benchmark for overall colour print permanence. When displayed
> framed under glass, prints made with the new printer, inks, and papers
> are among the longest-lasting prints in the entire 130-year history of
> colour photography.
> 
> Things are getting interestinger and interestinger.
> 
> I wonder what this inks are like on non-HP papers?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "steveh0607" 
<steveh060758@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" <cj@> wrote:
> >opps, it was the Wilhelm site that rated the HP longevity using a paper called 
Hahnemule Smooth Fine Art paper.

> > Hello All,
> > 
> > Just saw on DpReview a PMA announcement of HP's new 8-cart 13" pigment
> > printer, Vivera pigment inks and new papers (glossy and matte). 
> > They are claiming best longevity, and the news article contains this
> > quote:
> > "I wonder what this inks are like on non-HP papers?"
> 
> The HP web site reads that Hahnemuele (sp?) has developed some paper for this printer.
> > Henry Wilhelm, Wilhelm Imaging Research Inc., (WIR) said, "With WIR
> > Display Permanence Ratings of more than 200 years, prints made with
> > the HP Photosmart Pro B9180 A3+ Photo Printer, Vivera pigment inks,
> > and select HP glossy photo papers and matte fine art papers set a
> > new benchmark for overall colour print permanence. When displayed
> > framed under glass, prints made with the new printer, inks, and papers
> > are among the longest-lasting prints in the entire 130-year history of
> > colour photography.
> > 
> > Things are getting interestinger and interestinger.
> > 
> > I wonder what this inks are like on non-HP papers?
> > 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Clayton
> > 
> > 
> > Info on black and white digital printing at    
> > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> >
>