Digital BW, The Print

Hello,

I've been planning on buying a refurb Epson 1280 since the rebate expires at the end of 
the month. While I've been saving for it, there have surely been new developments in 
third-party ink technology.

Is the 1280 a wise choice for low-cost, larger b&w printing at this time, or is it too old to 
take advantage of the latest in inks?

Is there a better low-cost option at this time?

Steve Kayner

My 1280 blocked up all the time. It drove me crazy!
I know a few people have not experienced this problem but many have. 
My 220 has yet to clog even once.

I'd urge you to avoid the 1280. Altho you will be limited to 8.5X11,
the 220 can be bought for $69, still. (And there are Epson rebates out
there)
Regards
Howard

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kayner"
<kayners@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> 
> I've been planning on buying a refurb Epson 1280 since the rebate
expires at the end of 
> the month. While I've been saving for it, there have surely been new
developments in 
> third-party ink technology.
> 
> Is the 1280 a wise choice for low-cost, larger b&w printing at this
time, or is it too old to 

> take advantage of the latest in inks?
> 
> Is there a better low-cost option at this time?
> 
> Steve Kayner
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" <how786@...> wrote:
> I'd urge you to avoid the 1280. Altho you will be limited to 8.5X11,
> the 220 can be bought for $69, still.

I have an Epson C86 for small b&w prints. I'm looking for a larger format printer.

Steve Kayner

Steve,

 
> I've been planning on buying a refurb Epson 1280 since the rebate expires
> at the end of the month. ...

> Is the 1280 a wise choice for low-cost, larger b&w printing at this time,
> or is it too old to take advantage of the latest in inks?
> 
> Is there a better low-cost option at this time?

At the 8 x 10 size, the R220 is the way to go.  The problem is that taking
the next step to 13" paper gets very expensive.

The refurbished 1280s may be a real bargain.  The 1280 is capable of making
very good prints.  In actual prints, they are probably visually
indistinguishable from the best.  The UT2 from MIS is still used by many
people.  Additionally, the UT-FS & FSN as well as UT-R2 will run on the
1280, although I have not made curves or ICCs for the UT-R2.  With Roy
Harrington's "Create ICC" I now recommend that every serious printer learn
to make custom ICCs anyway.  So, the lack of pre-made curves or ICCs is not
that much of an issue.

The 1280 has a mixed record with respect to clogging.  I do not know why
some have great luck with it and others have had constant problems.  Some of
the older cartridge batches were probably part of the problem.  Used 1280s
with dye on the parking pads was also a source of trouble, as it is
incompatible with Eboni matte black.  (The parking pads should be rinsed
off.)  Non-use of the sepia toner in the UT2 yellow position may have been
part of the problem with that jet. 

What some of us have found recently is that Windex in a cart does an amazing
job of cleaning out printers.  As such, what I've been wondering is if that
approach to maintaining a 1280 would take care of whatever problems may
result from some basic design weakness of the machine.  At current prices, I
think it might be worth taking the risk.  An Epson-refurbished 13" printer
at just under $200 could be a bargain, but you've heard the downside story
also.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I think you'd be better off buying a used 2200, then. Ebay always
has many.
 Just my take.....
 Howard


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kayner"
<kayners@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786"
<how786@> wrote:
> > I'd urge you to avoid the 1280. Altho you will be limited to 8.5X11,
> > the 220 can be bought for $69, still.
> 
> I have an Epson C86 for small b&w prints. I'm looking for a larger
format printer.

> 
> Steve Kayner
>

>   I think you'd be better off buying a used 2200, ...

That is what I'm using now -- very nice printer.

However, Epson refurbished 1280s are $199 now (after rebate), whereas the
refurbished 2200 was $447 and they are out of stock.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Ebay also often has Epson 7000/7500 machines that sell for under $1000. 
They are still a good printer, especially with multiple dilution ink 
sets like a quad of hextone set. Cheap and easy to maintain too. Even 
the 9000/9500 are starting to sell for around $1000 (sometimes less).

Offer half that.
Mark

On Mar 22, 2006, at 1:31 PM, john dean wrote:

> Greg,
>
> I have an option to buy a 9500 cheap here in town for about a grand.
> It has a busted ink line or something
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
> <dfaprinting@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ebay also often has Epson 7000/7500 machines that sell for under  
> $1000.
> > They are still a good printer, especially with multiple dilution ink
> > sets like a quad of hextone set. Cheap and easy to maintain too.  
> Even
> > the 9000/9500 are starting to sell for around $1000 (sometimes  
> less).
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Everyone, 

This topic is so closed to a major dilemma I have now.  I hope this list
doesn't mind if I throw in an extra question.  

I have a 1270 I am using to print images to sell.  I use carbon inks for the
b&w, and I love them.  I do have a few clog problems, but if I think a
little ahead I avoid 98% of them.  For color, I use dye based inks with
sprays to act as a preservative.  

With all this said, I want a printer I can do both b&w and color without
changing inks.  I also need a printer to print to a larger format than
13x19.  I only use matte papers.  I also would love archival without having
to resort to sprays.  

About 60 to 70% of my images are b&w.  

My money is so tight.  I am about to loose my job in order to start a new
company.  Do you have any recommendations?  

Should I just keep the 1270 for now and wait till Epson comes out with a
better solution for b&w/color?  Should I just break down and buy a 4800?
Should I wait till I can afford a 7800?  Be able to print much large images
has a huge advantage to me.  Or should I buy an older large format printer
and use aftermarket inks?  

I apologize if I strayed too much from the b&w topic.  I am just so
desperate for advice.  

Thanks in advance to everyone for their thoughts.  

George Payne
Cajun Images

www.cajunimages.com
"Documenting Louisiana's Living History -- One Image, One Sound Byte, and
One Story at a time."

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "George Payne" <mail@...> wrote:
SNIP
> My money is so tight.  I am about to loose my job in order to start a new
> company.  Do you have any recommendations?  
> 
> Should I just keep the 1270 for now and wait till Epson comes out with a
> better solution for b&w/color?  Should I just break down and buy a 4800?
> Should I wait till I can afford a 7800?  Be able to print much large images
> has a huge advantage to me.  Or should I buy an older large format printer
> and use aftermarket inks?  
SNIP
George:
The answer is really pretty simple if you stop and think about it. Will the new printer make 
you money? If not, and you are tight financially, why are you even considering getting a 
new printer?

In the end, there will always be a newer better printing option down the line. HP & Canon 
just recently announced new pigmented printers that will soon be hitting the market. This 
just intensifies the competition.

One of these days a printer will come on the market that will do everything. Print on Gloss 
with out bronzing or gloss differential, print on matte art papers without having to switch 
black inks, and be archival with a money back 200 year warranty! And the final touch, inks 
will be cheap!

John Nollendorfs

And half of those inks won't end up in the wast tank and your friendly
Epson repairman won't plead with you to come empty it every other
week, just to keep an eye on you and exactly what ink you ARE using.

john




 And the final touch, inks 

> will be cheap!
> 
> John Nollendorfs
>

Like Paul, I cannot determine why some have clog problems with 1280s
and some don't. I've been lucky pumping MIS pigments through them for
about four years and no significant problems and getting great prints. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
> The 1280 has a mixed record with respect to clogging.  I do not know why
> some have great luck with it and others have had constant problems.
 Some of
> the older cartridge batches were probably part of the problem.  Used
1280s
> with dye on the parking pads was also a source of trouble, as it is
> incompatible with Eboni matte black.  (The parking pads should be rinsed
> off.)  Non-use of the sepia toner in the UT2 yellow position may
have been
> part of the problem with that jet. 
> 
> What some of us have found recently is that Windex in a cart does an
amazing
> job of cleaning out printers.  As such, what I've been wondering is
if that
> approach to maintaining a 1280 would take care of whatever problems may
> result from some basic design weakness of the machine.  At current
prices, I
> think it might be worth taking the risk.  An Epson-refurbished 13"
printer
> at just under $200 could be a bargain, but you've heard the downside
story

> also.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> 
wrote:
> The refurbished 1280s may be a real bargain.
> The UT2 from MIS is still used by many people.
> ...the UT-FS & FSN as well as UT-R2 will run on the 1280
> The 1280 has a mixed record with respect to clogging.
> Windex in a cart does an amazing job of cleaning out printers.
> At current prices, I think it might be worth taking the risk.
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Trimmed for summary. Thanks for the details Paul. I think I'll go with a 1280.

Steve.

Something I've found with the 1270 and carbon pigments. Turn on the
machine and print out a nozzle check nearly every day. If you leave it
sitting there for days or weeks you are asking for trouble.

> On Mar 22, 2006, at 1:31 PM, john dean wrote:
> 
> > Greg,
> >
> > I have an option to buy a 9500 cheap here in town for about a 
grand.
> > It has a busted ink line or something
> >
> > John


Find out what that something might be. A cracked flexible line would 
be nothing to fix, even if you bought Epson parts this would be 
cheap. If it is one of the steel lines, it might be more involved. If 
you like the K6 in your 7000, this would give you a wider machine, 
and you already have lots of parts from the donor machines. That is, 
if you have room for this beast.

As hard as it may be to believe, I don't have the parts list printed. 
I guess I better fix this soon.

You might try offering $500, but up to about $750 would be good (if 
it's really just a broken line). I think the flexible lines are a 
metric size, but there might be something close enough that you could 
buy from US Plastic. Dampers are about $12 each, and heads are down 
to about $90 each. Here is the BIG problem... It only has the 
standard parallel port (unless they have a card installed), so that 
might cause an issue. The Belkin par/USB adapter works OK, but the 
Epson type B firewire card is not rated for the 9500 (or converted 
9000). I haven't found a fix for this yet, but I'm still looking 
since I have the printer and the card.

On 23 Mar 2006, at 00:37, Greg wrote:

>  Here is the BIG problem... It only has the
> standard parallel port (unless they have a card installed), so that
> might cause an issue. The Belkin par/USB adapter works OK, but the
> Epson type B firewire card is not rated for the 9500 (or converted
> 9000). I haven't found a fix for this yet, but I'm still looking
> since I have the printer and the card.


Greg,

Is the 9500 plug arrangement not the same as the 7500. Shoot me down  
in flames if I am wrong but, if it is the same, it will have a USB  
socket and will work fine with the TypeB card.  I have both on my  
7500........ just wondered.......

Drew

Thanks Greg,

I wasn't aware that it didn't have a usb port. That does sound old.
I'll take a look at it. I'm not really in the mood for a lot of
mechanical work and I do hate collecting junk. I belive I have the
manual for it already.

John





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
<dfaprinting@...> wrote:

>
> > On Mar 22, 2006, at 1:31 PM, john dean wrote:
> > 
> > > Greg,
> > >
> > > I have an option to buy a 9500 cheap here in town for about a 
> grand.
> > > It has a busted ink line or something
> > >
> > > John
> 
> 
> Find out what that something might be. A cracked flexible line would 
> be nothing to fix, even if you bought Epson parts this would be 
> cheap. If it is one of the steel lines, it might be more involved. If 
> you like the K6 in your 7000, this would give you a wider machine, 
> and you already have lots of parts from the donor machines. That is, 
> if you have room for this beast.
> 
> As hard as it may be to believe, I don't have the parts list printed. 
> I guess I better fix this soon.
> 
> You might try offering $500, but up to about $750 would be good (if 
> it's really just a broken line). I think the flexible lines are a 
> metric size, but there might be something close enough that you could 
> buy from US Plastic. Dampers are about $12 each, and heads are down 
> to about $90 each. Here is the BIG problem... It only has the 
> standard parallel port (unless they have a card installed), so that 
> might cause an issue. The Belkin par/USB adapter works OK, but the 
> Epson type B firewire card is not rated for the 9500 (or converted 
> 9000). I haven't found a fix for this yet, but I'm still looking 
> since I have the printer and the card.
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Rodger 
<leasburnstudio@...> wrote:
> 
> Is the 9500 plug arrangement not the same as the 7500. 

The service manual says it has the standard par., 8 pin serial. and 
the type B slot. For some unknown reason Epson decided to put the USB 
connection on the 7000 and 7500, but not on the 9000/9500. I'm not 
really sure what they were thinking at the time. I can't imagine how 
slow it would be using the rs422/rs232 serial connection. The 
parallel port was capable of driving the printer at full speed (which 
may not be saying much). The par/USB adapters do not drive it at full 
speed, at least not the 2 that I have (1 cheapo, one Belkin).

If anyone wants a Fiery RIP for the 7/75/9/9500 printers, let me 
know... I have 2 of them gathering dust. They are only good for color 
use, and best with the correct Epson inks and papers.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Greg,
> 
> I wasn't aware that it didn't have a usb port. That does sound old.
> I'll take a look at it. I'm not really in the mood for a lot of
> mechanical work and I do hate collecting junk. I belive I have the
> manual for it already.
> 
> John
> 
 The lines that wear out (yup there is a counter for them) are the 
ones that flex from the heads moving. Those should be easy to replace 
(once you get all the screws removed). It actually comes apart more 
easily than your 7000.

Nothing like being covered with ink again. I'll look into it next
week. Sometimes you can just look at these machines and see how far
gone they are and how they were taken care of. 

Thanks for the knowledge,

John




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
<dfaprinting@...> wrote:

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
> <deanwork2003@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Greg,
> > 
> > I wasn't aware that it didn't have a usb port. That does sound old.
> > I'll take a look at it. I'm not really in the mood for a lot of
> > mechanical work and I do hate collecting junk. I belive I have the
> > manual for it already.
> > 
> > John
> > 
>  The lines that wear out (yup there is a counter for them) are the 
> ones that flex from the heads moving. Those should be easy to replace 
> (once you get all the screws removed). It actually comes apart more 
> easily than your 7000.
>

> Trimmed for summary. Thanks for the details Paul. I think I'll go
with a 1280.

In case you do have problems: the times I had 1280 problems were
mostly traceable to air getting in.  This happened either due to foam
in carts (CIS) with sponges, or leaks around the seals at the exit
ports of the colour carts (refil carts - I think some have inadequate
seals or poor dimensional tolerances).   So if you have trouble try
another cart, it could help.  Air problems often show up as
intermittent nozzle checks (i.e. individual nozzles or whole colours
come and go in unpredictable ways).  

Good luck!

Ken

On 23 Mar 2006, at 01:19, Greg wrote:

> For some unknown reason Epson decided to put the USB
> connection on the 7000 and 7500, but not on the 9000/9500. I'm not
> really sure what they were thinking at the time. I can't imagine how
> slow it would be using the rs422/rs232 serial connection. The
> parallel port was capable of driving the printer at full speed (which
> may not be saying much). The par/USB adapters do not drive it at full
> speed, at least not the 2 that I have (1 cheapo, one Belkin).


How bizarre.  Have you tried it with a C82391* card? It would be  
utterly perverse if the 7500 can work with this card and not the 9500.

Drew

john dean wrote:
> Nothing like being covered with ink again. I'll look into it next
> week. Sometimes you can just look at these machines and see how far
> gone they are and how they were taken care of. 
> 
> Thanks for the knowledge,
> 
> John

I could also be a clogged needle, the one that punctures the 
cart seal. Happened before.
Or if there's just a warning that one line isn't working the 
cart sensor that may be gone. Shortcut that sensor at the back 
then.

Yes, I have had it with ink baths too. The 9600s are not that 
expensive anymore, secondhand or new.

Ernst




-- 

                    --
           Ernst Dinkla


www.pigment-print.com
(         unvollendet         )

I think you are right Ernst and I always appreciate all your
experience too . I will most likely pass on this machine and go for a
used 9600 in the future for the large K7, which was my first inclination.

Always having something mechanically unresolved just makes me
restless, especially with my quite minimal level of engineering
expertise. But I'll take a look at it anyway. Just disposing of
something that big if it turns out to be a giant paper weight is an
issue in itself. I have a friend who continues to do beautiful Piezo
Tone on an old 9000 and others who do larger volume who have had
nothing but continual nightmares with them mechanically. I'm always
ambivilent about this kind of thing - money vs time...  

John





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
<E.Dinkla@...> wrote:

>
> john dean wrote:
> > Nothing like being covered with ink again. I'll look into it next
> > week. Sometimes you can just look at these machines and see how far
> > gone they are and how they were taken care of. 
> > 
> > Thanks for the knowledge,
> > 
> > John
> 
> I could also be a clogged needle, the one that punctures the 
> cart seal. Happened before.
> Or if there's just a warning that one line isn't working the 
> cart sensor that may be gone. Shortcut that sensor at the back 
> then.
> 
> Yes, I have had it with ink baths too. The 9600s are not that 
> expensive anymore, secondhand or new.
> 
> Ernst
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
>                     --
>            Ernst Dinkla
> 
> 
> www.pigment-print.com
> (         unvollendet         )
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Rodger 
<leasburnstudio@...> wrote:
> 
> How bizarre.  Have you tried it with a C82391* card? It would be  
> utterly perverse if the 7500 can work with this card and not the 9500.
> 
> Drew
>

Nope, but I might have to get one and try it. I might also have to turn 
the firewire networking back on, which will of course prohibit me from 
getting the most out of other firewire attached devices. The computer 
knows that it is a firewire device, but it doesn't know what device and 
asks for a driver. There is no driver from Epson to use with Windows, 
but I did try loading the latest Status Monitor and driver package for 
that printer. There is a switch to run a self test between printer and 
card, if that works, then it's just a matter of making the computer see 
the card properly. It's odd that the card clearly lists the 9000 but 
not the 9500. Technically my printer started out life as a 9000, so I 
know the hardware should work with it, the firmware may be another 
question...

Greg, We might be at crossed purposes here but the card ID I gave you  
is for Ethernet.

I am driving my 7500 from OSX so can't say anything useful about  
Windows drivers I regret.

Cheers

Drew

On 23 Mar 2006, at 14:39, Greg wrote:

> > How bizarre.  Have you tried it with a C82391* card? It would be
> > utterly perverse if the 7500 can work with this card and not the  
> 9500.
> >
> > Drew
> >
>
> Nope, but I might have to get one and try it. I might also have to  
> turn
> the firewire networking back on, which will of course prohibit me from
> getting the most out of other firewire attached devices. The computer
> knows that it is a firewire device, but it doesn't know what device  
> and
> asks for a driver. There is no driver from Epson to use with Windows,
> but I did try loading the latest Status Monitor and driver package for
> that printer. There is a switch to run a self test between printer and
> card, if that works, then it's just a matter of making the computer  
> see
> the card properly. It's odd that the card clearly lists the 9000 but
> not the 9500. Technically my printer started out life as a 9000, so I
> know the hardware should work with it, the firmware may be another
> question...

John,

> Just disposing of something that big if it turns out to be a giant paper
> weight is an issue in itself.


Epson USA will recycle it for you!

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/Recycle/RecycleProgram.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@...>

Will they actually take a 9500? It says printers have to be boxed and  
ready for FEDEX pickup.
Mark

On Mar 23, 2006, at 2:14 PM, Bob Frost wrote:

> John,
>
>> Just disposing of something that big if it turns out to be a giant  
>> paper
>> weight is an issue in itself.
>
>
> Epson USA will recycle it for you!
>
> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/Recycle/RecycleProgram.jsp? 
> BV_UseBVCookie=yes
>
> Bob Frost.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@...>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Savoia" 
<mark@...> wrote:
>
> Will they actually take a 9500? It says printers have to be boxed 
and  
> ready for FEDEX pickup.
> Mark
> 


It used to say desktop printers only, maybe they forgot that partin the 
somewhat recent page changes. I think the biggest they will take is the 
3000. If you strip the 9500 down, there's lots of good scrap metal in 
there, it doesn't weigh over 200 pounds for nothing...