Digital BW, The Print

Just received and installed a brand new set of quad black inks from 
Lyson for my i9900.  Using a new print head I put them in and using 
Lyson's recommended driver settings made a print on each paper I have 
to see what it looks like as you can't tone the print so whether it is 
warm or cold depends on the optical brighteners of each individual 
paper.  Metamerism appears to be a BIG problem with these inks.  On 
certain papers it appears red-violet under incandescent light and then 
green-blue under daylight.  Never really neutral.  Anybody with 
experience with Lyson quad blacks on other older printers care to 
offer some advice on technique to get some consistency or better 
performance?  Thanks- Paul

I went through a lot of Lyson quad inks way back in 1999 and 2000. At the time they had 
three sets, cold, sepia, and neutral. I tried every concievable method of printing with them, 
and every set and coimbination of sets. The problem you so well describe existed then 
when they first brought them out, and remains to this day. They have never addressed this 
or updated the inks.
I'd move on my friend, perhaps hold a little funeral for them and bury them in the back 
yard.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "psideburns" <psideburns@...> 
wrote:

>
> Just received and installed a brand new set of quad black inks from 
> Lyson for my i9900.  Using a new print head I put them in and using 
> Lyson's recommended driver settings made a print on each paper I have 
> to see what it looks like as you can't tone the print so whether it is 
> warm or cold depends on the optical brighteners of each individual 
> paper.  Metamerism appears to be a BIG problem with these inks.  On 
> certain papers it appears red-violet under incandescent light and then 
> green-blue under daylight.  Never really neutral.  Anybody with 
> experience with Lyson quad blacks on other older printers care to 
> offer some advice on technique to get some consistency or better 
> performance?  Thanks- Paul
>

sorry, one more quick note-
I have an i9900. A really good custom profile for that printer with it's OEM inks will do pretty 
decent B&W, compared to a dye Epson. It won't have the problems your Lyson inks have 
either... sorry...
T

Tyler, was it metamerism or something else that caused you 
frustration with these inks.  Matte and fine art stuff dont look too 
bad but I got them to do glossy and lustre without the dulling glop 
look of epsons.  -Paul




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
<tyler@...> wrote:
>
> I went through a lot of Lyson quad inks way back in 1999 and 2000. 
At the time they had 
> three sets, cold, sepia, and neutral. I tried every concievable 
method of printing with them, 
> and every set and coimbination of sets. The problem you so well 
describe existed then 
> when they first brought them out, and remains to this day. They 
have never addressed this 
> or updated the inks.
> I'd move on my friend, perhaps hold a little funeral for them and 
bury them in the back 
> yard.
> Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "psideburns" <psideburns@...> 
wrote:
>
> Tyler, was it metamerism or something else that caused you 
> frustration with these inks.  Matte and fine art stuff dont look too 
> bad but I got them to do glossy and lustre without the dulling glop 
> look of epsons.  -Paul
> 

Those photo papers I'm sure would benifit from the Lyson inks, and if that's your desired 
goal I guess things are further complicated.
This is certainly the last frontier for many people.
Yes, it was the metamerism primarily, but I was on fine art paper surfaces. I recall Wilhelm 
giving them very good ratings as well.
T

I always found the tonality and dmax to be very good with the Lyson
quads and Wilhelm had them rated around 120 Wil years. I belive they
were originally created for Iris. The issue for me was always the
metamerism. They were red under tungsten, even the Small Gamut set,
though much better that way. If it wasn't for galleries using tungsten
they would have been fine. ;-). These days I wouldn't even think of
considering them. There are just too many other good solutions. Epson
K3 is way beyond that for all media.

John




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
<tyler@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "psideburns"
<psideburns@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Tyler, was it metamerism or something else that caused you 
> > frustration with these inks.  Matte and fine art stuff dont look too 
> > bad but I got them to do glossy and lustre without the dulling glop 
> > look of epsons.  -Paul
> > 
> 
> Those photo papers I'm sure would benifit from the Lyson inks, and
if that's your desired 
> goal I guess things are further complicated.
> This is certainly the last frontier for many people.
> Yes, it was the metamerism primarily, but I was on fine art paper
surfaces. I recall Wilhelm 

> giving them very good ratings as well.
> T
>

Sorry to be so negative Paul but I used these regularly in large
format Epson machines for a couple of years. I would suggest you
cutting your loses and get out of there. The Lyson people have been
aware of this unacceptable metamerismic shift for many years. They
have served this monochrome community very poorly. They have also just
been bought out by some other company and who knows if they will even
offer these products at all. Hopefully not.

john



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "psideburns"
<psideburns@...> wrote:

>
> Just received and installed a brand new set of quad black inks from 
> Lyson for my i9900.  Using a new print head I put them in and using 
> Lyson's recommended driver settings made a print on each paper I have 
> to see what it looks like as you can't tone the print so whether it is 
> warm or cold depends on the optical brighteners of each individual 
> paper.  Metamerism appears to be a BIG problem with these inks.  On 
> certain papers it appears red-violet under incandescent light and then 
> green-blue under daylight.  Never really neutral.  Anybody with 
> experience with Lyson quad blacks on other older printers care to 
> offer some advice on technique to get some consistency or better 
> performance?  Thanks- Paul
>

Tyler

You have such a way with words! God bless you for being honest and trying to help younger, or at least more inexperienced folks from spending the next three years replicating what you learned the hard way. Listen carefully my friends, to one who has paid the dues.

Woody Spedden

----- Original Message ----
From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:08:20 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Lyson quad black inks for my Canon i9900

   sorry, one more quick note-
 I have an i9900. A really good custom profile for that printer with it's OEM inks will do pretty 
 decent B&W, compared to a dye Epson. It won't have the problems your Lyson inks have 
 either... sorry...
 T
 
 
 
     

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