Digital BW, The Print

I have been reading about Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/printers/h-fap.shtml

It has finally shipped, and would like to try it. Has anyone any experience? Any suggestions 
for using it with my R2400 with BW. I would just need to use the closest setting, since for 
colour I won't need a profile? Is this correct.

Thanks,

Sonny

Sounds like this paper has a lot of oba content that could burn out
over time. That worries me. Crane Silver Rag has plenty of brilliance
for me. Also sounds like the dmax figures of HFP were greatly
inflated. But it is nice that there is competition out there. They'll
all improve I'm sure. There is money to be made.

john




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Sonny Taylor"
<st@...> wrote:
>
> I have been reading about Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl:
> 
> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/printers/h-fap.shtml
> 
> It has finally shipped, and would like to try it. Has anyone any
experience? Any suggestions 
> for using it with my R2400 with BW. I would just need to use the
closest setting, since for 

> colour I won't need a profile? Is this correct.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sonny
>

If this is taboo off topic I will not ask again, but I'm curious 
what methods you use for conversion when using a digital camera. I 
just tried a adj layer gradient map yesterday and I was surprised how 
good it came out.
Debbi
-- 
Debbi in California
http://www.pbase.com/debbi

Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!

Yes I was surprised with gradient map method too. It is fast and easy and to
me gives a better result than most common methods.

 

Many techniques, such as the Channel Mixer, get very involved in how
different colors map to grey. It is the Photoshop equivalent of using
orange, red, or green filters on your film camera when shooting B&W. Since I
never used filters with film I decided that Channel Mixer was dealing with
an area that was not as important to me. I wanted to try to get the contrast
and dramatic look that B&W film provides. Channel Mixer does not deal with
that at all.

 

I now use a method I really like that gives the look of B&W film This info
has also been promoted at the Epson Print Academy seminars given around the
country. The info on the method is at the link below. Go to the link, then
click on the Learn tab, then click the B&W Conversion Tutorial at the bottom
of the list. The directions are a little sparse, but the technique works
great, creates contrast that mimics B&W film in a way I really like, and
allows for a very nice toning capability. 

 

Here's one hint. When you add the Solid Color adjustment layer, pick a
medium dark brown color. The color will relate to the final "toning" of the
image. The darker the color the darker your print will be. Some prints
require a very light color. Check out Greg Gorman's B&W images to see the
B&W look that this method aims at. 

 

www.gormanphotography.com/gorman.html

 

Steve

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Debbi
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 3:51 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] OT:Photoshop Conversion

 

   If this is taboo off topic I will not ask again, but I'm curious 
what methods you use for conversion when using a digital camera. I 
just tried a adj layer gradient map yesterday and I was surprised how 
good it came out.
Debbi
-- 
Debbi in California
http://www.pbase.com/debbi

Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!
 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I really like the ps plugin called exposure. It deals with the fact 
that different films respond in different ways and does a fantastic 
job in recreating the look of several films. It doesnt take long at 
all yet still retains the tweaker ability if needed.

Another technique documented by Bruce Fraser in Real World Camera Raw  
(p.144): in Adobe Camera Raw's Adjust tab, set saturation to -100,  
then use the Calibration tab controls to adjust the panchromatic  
response (or the effect thereof). I like it because it's very  
interactive... you can see the result in real time.

Harry

On Jun 5, 2006, at 6:35 PM, ciscomanvann wrote:

> I really like the ps plugin called exposure. It deals with the fact
> that different films respond in different ways and does a fantastic
> job in recreating the look of several films. It doesnt take long at
> all yet still retains the tweaker ability if needed.
>
>
>
>
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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Debbi <corkie@...> wrote:

> I use Convert to Black and White Pro 3.0 most of the time. This is very effective, very 
versitile and easy to use. Sometimes I use the nik color fx filters to get various b&w effects 
like infrared and the old photo look.

>    If this is taboo off topic I will not ask again, but I'm curious 
> what methods you use for conversion when using a digital camera. I 
> just tried a adj layer gradient map yesterday and I was surprised how 
> good it came out.
> Debbi
> -- 
> Debbi in California
> http://www.pbase.com/debbi
> 
> Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!
>

Maurice Hamilton's book "Black & White Photography Techniques With Adobe 
Photoshop" is probably the most comprehensive source for BW conversion 
processes that I have seen.  It isn't cheap, but it is filled with 
useful information.

Rem

Another way of converting that is often overlooked is Photoshop's Conversions dioalogue which lets you blend two channels using any blending mode and output the conversion into a new alpha channel.

Richard
--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com


   "Imitation is the sincerest form of television. " 
   --Fred Allen (1894-1956)

Another good option is the set of actions from 
http://www.1clickactions.com There are many conversion options (some 
common ones, some pretty obscure to me). 
After a while you soon realise which is best for which type of image. 
There are some nice toning and split-toning actions included as well.

Katrin Eismann's book 'Adobe Photoshop Restoration and Retouching'
(ISBN 0321316274) discusses many methods of conversion to B&W. As well
as the usual methods (Channel Mixer, Calculations, Lab mode) she
describes Russell Brown's 'Film and Filter' method, which I've found
very useful.

I'd recommend her book in any case as a good intermediate level
Photoshop book. It's not just about 'restoration', despite the title.

HTH

Alan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Debbi
<corkie@...> wrote:

>
>    If this is taboo off topic I will not ask again, but I'm curious 
> what methods you use for conversion when using a digital camera. I 
> just tried a adj layer gradient map yesterday and I was surprised how 
> good it came out.
> Debbi
> -- 
> Debbi in California
> http://www.pbase.com/debbi
> 
> Whoever said 'money can't buy happiness' never met a camera they loved!
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Debbi <corkie@...> wrote:
>
>    If this is taboo off topic I will not ask again, but I'm curious 
> what methods you use for conversion when using a digital camera. 

Below is a PDF with Photoshop's Channel Mixer settings to replicate B&W films. I don't know 
how accurate it is as I copied the values off of photo.net, but it's something to add to 
everyone's tool set.

http://tinyurl.com/krg9m

Are those values for daylight exposure? Where are the grain setting and film
developer listed? I sorry, but it might just be a "typical" contrast curve
or based on manufacture's info. 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

Skype : ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Vitollo
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:17 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] OT:Photoshop Conversion

 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Debbi <corkie@...> wrote:
>
> If this is taboo off topic I will not ask again, but I'm curious 
> what methods you use for conversion when using a digital camera. 

Below is a PDF with Photoshop's Channel Mixer settings to replicate B&W
films. I don't know 
how accurate it is as I copied the values off of photo.net, but it's
something to add to 
everyone's tool set.

http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/krg9m> com/krg9m

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen Photo " 
<e.neilsen2@...> wrote:


> Are those values for daylight exposure? Where are the grain setting and film
> developer listed? I sorry, but it might just be a "typical" contrast curve
> or based on manufacture's info. 

Regarding: http://tinyurl.com/krg9m

Helen Bach posted on another list that some of the RGB values are suspect with some films. I 
just take all those values with a grain of salt and just pick the best one for the image I'm 
using...nothing more, nothing less.

I have a grain tutorial which I'll post in a bit...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" <jvlist@...> wrote:

> I have a grain tutorial which I'll post in a bit...

This is Mark Tucker's adding grain technique:

Convert your image to 8bit, from 16. Do a New Layer (only from the layer menu), in Overlay 
mode. Check the box for "Fill with...50% Gray". Then take that Layer and go to 
Filters>Artistic>Film Grain, and enter 3/0/0. 

When it completes that, Gaussian Blur that Layer slightly, like 0.3; very tiny. Then drop 
Opacity of that Layer to taste.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo"
<jvlist@...> wrote:

> Helen Bach posted on another list that some of the RGB values are
suspect with some films. I 
> just take all those values with a grain of salt and just pick the
best one for the image I'm 
> using...nothing more, nothing less.


If anyone is interested, here is what I wrote over on the Colorvision
group, with a small addition:

I'm not sure what those exact numbers mean, because they will depend
on what light the film has been shot in - and of course they would
also be changed by the use of filters. However, there is an
interesting feature: for Ilford and Agfa films, the B number is lower
than the G number. For Kodak films it is the other way round.

Why is this? Maybe it is because the mixer settings have been
estimated from the published spectral response curves. Agfa and Ilford
published wedge spectrograms made in tungsten light (2850 K for
Ilford), at one density only. Kodak publish equal energy response
curves at two densities. This makes Kodak films look as if the blue
response is higher than the green response, and vice-versa for Ilford
and Agfa. It's just the way the spectral sensitivity is shown. You
need to compare wedge spectrograms or equal energy curves. You can't
compare one with the other - that is misleading, and whoever wrote
those channel mixer numbers appears to have been misled. Not that it
matters one bit for imitating B&W film digitally because that will
only be a close approximation at best, but it does matter
if you wish to understand the differences between real B&W films.

Best,
Helen