Digital BW, The Print

Hello all,

I was wondering if any of you would be willing to send me a raw file 
from your digital camera so I can scrutinize it in photoshop and see 
for myself what you all are getting in terms of quality with digital.  
I don't care if it is a shot of your shoe.  Just so long as it is a 
file taken with your digital camera of choice at maximum quality so 
that I can play with it in photoshop and get a feel for what you are 
getting.  If others are interested in this I wouldn't mind posting 
these files on a webpage either as a sort of database.  Let me know.

Thanks,

JOsh
joshrandall@joshscapes.com

I've been an avid amateur photographer for 16 years, and I have a 
darkroom full of professional grade equipment, including 4x5 and 8x10 
color enlargers.  For the last 10 years, my main camera was a 4x5 view 
camera. I enlarged these negatives using high quality lenses on an 
aligned enlarger using a glass carrier to 8x10 and 11x14.  In addition, 
I have a print collection of over 100 prints, which includes some by 
very fine photographers: Les McLean, Wynn Bullock, Ralph Lambrecht.... 
So I do think that I have some idea of what a quality traditional silver 
print looks like.  A few years ago, I bought to Fuji medium format 
rangefinders to use on a trip.  Using Ilford XP2 Super, I got 
outstanding results, and I had a lot of fun.

 About this time I bought a 2 mp Canon digital point and shoot, mainly 
to take picture for Ebay.  While not a fan of the shutter lag, I could 
make better 4x6" prints using this camera than I could with my trusty 
Nikon FM2 with Nikon prime lenses.  Despite this success, I was 
convinced that a D70 or digital Rebel would not give me the quality that 
I wanted.  This was unfortunate in that a job change had given me 
significantly less time in the darkroom.  I'm a slow printer, and I 
using bleaching and toning on fiber-based silver gelatin paper, which is 
time consuming to process. And I simply didn't have the time (and still 
don't) to spend a whole day in the darkroom making a group prints from 
one negative. This sucks, as I enjoy the darkroom process immensely.

 As a result, when the D200 came out, I bought one.  I figured that if 
it really didn't work out, I could sell it for not that big of a loss.  
Well, since I bought it, I haven't used anything else.  Reading various 
websites, and with some experience scanning negatives, my calculations 
indicated that I'd only be able to get decent 8x10s. These calculations 
were wrong.  Way wrong.  With careful use, I can get 12x18 inch prints 
that are better than anything I could get with medium format and smaller 
film cameras.  To be honest, the best 12x18 prints from the Dslr don't 
give up anything to the 11x14 inch optical prints from 4x5. (TMX 
developed in Xtol 1+2). Even better, my photography has gotten much 
better, as I carry my D200 with most of the time, and taking shots with 
it takes significantly less time than using my Sinar P. It's true that 
at some point, enlargement (optical or digital) from 4x5 film should out 
pace the quality from my 10 mp dslr, but with my 13x19" printer, I don't 
see it. I do miss the focal plane and perspective control of the view 
camera, but that's about it.  There are lots of hurdles with digital 
photography, from blown highlights to clogged nozzles, but there are 
hurdles no matter what you do.  When I could only print with Mis inks in 
a C86 or R220, I wouldn't have been happy. I had tons of clogged 
nozzles, and the prints were just OK. With my R2400 and Epson premium 
semi-matte, premium semi-gloss and silver rag papers, I'm much happier. 
Good luck and have fun! (I'll be happy to send you a raw file from my d200.)

Josh,
Do you want to see Nikon?  I went through the process about 22 mos ago and
bought a Nikon D70 (Too much Nikkor glass to discard).  Today (as of 8 mos
ago), in addition to my D70, I also own a D2x... a big purchase for me.  The
D70 is (still) a wonderful camera and a fantastic backup.  Tomorrow, I will
shoot the same set with both of my cameras (6 and 12.5 megs) to more
accurately evaluate their performance differences.  Honestly, I don't know
why I haven't done it yet.  If you're interested I would be happy to send
them to you.
-Richard   

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
joshscapes
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:10 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] request for sample files

Hello all,

I was wondering if any of you would be willing to send me a raw file 
from your digital camera so I can scrutinize it in photoshop and see 
for myself what you all are getting in terms of quality with digital.  
I don't care if it is a shot of your shoe.  Just so long as it is a 
file taken with your digital camera of choice at maximum quality so 
that I can play with it in photoshop and get a feel for what you are 
getting.  If others are interested in this I wouldn't mind posting 
these files on a webpage either as a sort of database.  Let me know.

Thanks,

JOsh
joshrandall@...






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Josh,

I would be glad to email a raw file or two from the Canon 20D (now available
as 30D).  You'll need about 10mb for your mailbox, or I can post to an ftp
site.   It is the closest thing to the Digital Rebel that you mention.  I
really like mine, especially with the Canon 10-22mm zoom and primes.
However, I think you will find that the output is not going to be
satisfactory for the print sizes you want.  I tend to print small (e.g.,
10x15 for that format) so I'm happy.  I will mention that I'm going to have
to bite the bullet and go to a full-frame Canon and different lenses,
primarily because I need the extra speed.

Given the static nature of your subjects, why not just go with a 4x5 field
outfit?  It will cost a lot less money and you'll have all the quality you
want.  (Answering my own question, I have LF 4x5 and 8x10 field outfits, but
I am taken with the flexibility and freedom of digital.)

Regards,

Ken Carney
www.kencarney.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> joshscapes
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:10 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] request for sample files
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you would be willing to send me a raw file
> from your digital camera so I can scrutinize it in photoshop and see
> for myself what you all are getting in terms of quality with digital.
> I don't care if it is a shot of your shoe.  Just so long as it is a
> file taken with your digital camera of choice at maximum quality so
> that I can play with it in photoshop and get a feel for what you are
> getting.  If others are interested in this I wouldn't mind posting
> these files on a webpage either as a sort of database.  Let me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JOsh
> joshrandall@...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Does anyone have experience with Betterlight's digital backs for view
cameras?
-Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Carney
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:18 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] request for sample files

Josh,

I would be glad to email a raw file or two from the Canon 20D (now available
as 30D).  You'll need about 10mb for your mailbox, or I can post to an ftp
site.   It is the closest thing to the Digital Rebel that you mention.  I
really like mine, especially with the Canon 10-22mm zoom and primes.
However, I think you will find that the output is not going to be
satisfactory for the print sizes you want.  I tend to print small (e.g.,
10x15 for that format) so I'm happy.  I will mention that I'm going to have
to bite the bullet and go to a full-frame Canon and different lenses,
primarily because I need the extra speed.

Given the static nature of your subjects, why not just go with a 4x5 field
outfit?  It will cost a lot less money and you'll have all the quality you
want.  (Answering my own question, I have LF 4x5 and 8x10 field outfits, but
I am taken with the flexibility and freedom of digital.)

Regards,

Ken Carney
www.kencarney.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> joshscapes
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:10 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] request for sample files
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you would be willing to send me a raw file
> from your digital camera so I can scrutinize it in photoshop and see
> for myself what you all are getting in terms of quality with digital.
> I don't care if it is a shot of your shoe.  Just so long as it is a
> file taken with your digital camera of choice at maximum quality so
> that I can play with it in photoshop and get a feel for what you are
> getting.  If others are interested in this I wouldn't mind posting
> these files on a webpage either as a sort of database.  Let me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JOsh
> joshrandall@...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi Richard:
I believe Michael Reichmann (luminouslandscape.com) discussed the 
Betterlight a while back. That's a scanning back, right?
Bert

katzung1@...
www.astronomy-images.com
www.visionlightgallery.com/katzung/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Wise" <wise.richard@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] request for sample files


Does anyone have experience with Betterlight's digital backs for view
cameras?
-Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Carney
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:18 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] request for sample files

Josh,

I would be glad to email a raw file or two from the Canon 20D (now available
as 30D).  You'll need about 10mb for your mailbox, or I can post to an ftp
site.   It is the closest thing to the Digital Rebel that you mention.  I
really like mine, especially with the Canon 10-22mm zoom and primes.
However, I think you will find that the output is not going to be
satisfactory for the print sizes you want.  I tend to print small (e.g.,
10x15 for that format) so I'm happy.  I will mention that I'm going to have
to bite the bullet and go to a full-frame Canon and different lenses,
primarily because I need the extra speed.

Given the static nature of your subjects, why not just go with a 4x5 field
outfit?  It will cost a lot less money and you'll have all the quality you
want.  (Answering my own question, I have LF 4x5 and 8x10 field outfits, but
I am taken with the flexibility and freedom of digital.)

Regards,

Ken Carney
www.kencarney.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> joshscapes
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:10 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] request for sample files
>
> Hello all,
>
> I was wondering if any of you would be willing to send me a raw file
> from your digital camera so I can scrutinize it in photoshop and see
> for myself what you all are getting in terms of quality with digital.
> I don't care if it is a shot of your shoe.  Just so long as it is a
> file taken with your digital camera of choice at maximum quality so
> that I can play with it in photoshop and get a feel for what you are
> getting.  If others are interested in this I wouldn't mind posting
> these files on a webpage either as a sort of database.  Let me know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> JOsh
> joshrandall@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links










Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

I have thought about doing 4x5 for quite some time but seeing as my 
day job already takes too much of my time, I simply do not have time 
to spend in a darkroom.  I have plenty of time however even at my 
job to sit in front of a computer and manipulate images.  Thus my 
trying to get into digital.  

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Carney" 
<kcarney1@...> wrote:
>
> Josh,
> 
> I would be glad to email a raw file or two from the Canon 20D (now 
available
> as 30D).  You'll need about 10mb for your mailbox, or I can post 
to an ftp
> site.   It is the closest thing to the Digital Rebel that you 
mention.  I
> really like mine, especially with the Canon 10-22mm zoom and 
primes.
> However, I think you will find that the output is not going to be
> satisfactory for the print sizes you want.  I tend to print small 
(e.g.,
> 10x15 for that format) so I'm happy.  I will mention that I'm 
going to have
> to bite the bullet and go to a full-frame Canon and different 
lenses,
> primarily because I need the extra speed.
> 
> Given the static nature of your subjects, why not just go with a 
4x5 field
> outfit?  It will cost a lot less money and you'll have all the 
quality you
> want.  (Answering my own question, I have LF 4x5 and 8x10 field 
outfits, but
> I am taken with the flexibility and freedom of digital.)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ken Carney
> www.kencarney.com
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
Of
> > joshscapes
> > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:10 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] request for sample files
> > 
> > Hello all,
> > 
> > I was wondering if any of you would be willing to send me a raw 
file
> > from your digital camera so I can scrutinize it in photoshop and 
see
> > for myself what you all are getting in terms of quality with 
digital.
> > I don't care if it is a shot of your shoe.  Just so long as it 
is a
> > file taken with your digital camera of choice at maximum quality 
so
> > that I can play with it in photoshop and get a feel for what you 
are
> > getting.  If others are interested in this I wouldn't mind 
posting
> > these files on a webpage either as a sort of database.  Let me 
know.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > JOsh
> > joshrandall@...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL 
OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR 
LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
HAVE BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; 
(ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL 
BW, THE

> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

absolutely, I have plenty of space in my e-mail inbox so send away.  
I empty it out every couple hours or so anyways so I doubt it would 
fill up.  I would be very grateful to see what your nikon can 
produce.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wise" 
<wise.richard@...> wrote:
>
> Josh,
> Do you want to see Nikon?  I went through the process about 22 mos 
ago and
> bought a Nikon D70 (Too much Nikkor glass to discard).  Today (as 
of 8 mos
> ago), in addition to my D70, I also own a D2x... a big purchase 
for me.  The
> D70 is (still) a wonderful camera and a fantastic backup.  
Tomorrow, I will
> shoot the same set with both of my cameras (6 and 12.5 megs) to 
more
> accurately evaluate their performance differences.  Honestly, I 
don't know
> why I haven't done it yet.  If you're interested I would be happy 
to send
> them to you.
> -Richard   
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> joshscapes
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:10 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] request for sample files
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you would be willing to send me a raw 
file 
> from your digital camera so I can scrutinize it in photoshop and 
see 
> for myself what you all are getting in terms of quality with 
digital.  
> I don't care if it is a shot of your shoe.  Just so long as it is 
a 
> file taken with your digital camera of choice at maximum quality 
so 
> that I can play with it in photoshop and get a feel for what you 
are 
> getting.  If others are interested in this I wouldn't mind posting 
> these files on a webpage either as a sort of database.  Let me 
know.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JOsh
> joshrandall@...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
ADVISED OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER

> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

please send to my e-mail.  I have the space.  thanks.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Carney" 
<kcarney1@...> wrote:
>
> Josh,
> 
> I would be glad to email a raw file or two from the Canon 20D (now 
available
> as 30D).  You'll need about 10mb for your mailbox, or I can post 
to an ftp
> site.   It is the closest thing to the Digital Rebel that you 
mention.  I
> really like mine, especially with the Canon 10-22mm zoom and 
primes.
> However, I think you will find that the output is not going to be
> satisfactory for the print sizes you want.  I tend to print small 
(e.g.,
> 10x15 for that format) so I'm happy.  I will mention that I'm 
going to have
> to bite the bullet and go to a full-frame Canon and different 
lenses,
> primarily because I need the extra speed.
> 
> Given the static nature of your subjects, why not just go with a 
4x5 field
> outfit?  It will cost a lot less money and you'll have all the 
quality you
> want.  (Answering my own question, I have LF 4x5 and 8x10 field 
outfits, but
> I am taken with the flexibility and freedom of digital.)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ken Carney
> www.kencarney.com
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
Of
> > joshscapes
> > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:10 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] request for sample files
> > 
> > Hello all,
> > 
> > I was wondering if any of you would be willing to send me a raw 
file
> > from your digital camera so I can scrutinize it in photoshop and 
see
> > for myself what you all are getting in terms of quality with 
digital.
> > I don't care if it is a shot of your shoe.  Just so long as it 
is a
> > file taken with your digital camera of choice at maximum quality 
so
> > that I can play with it in photoshop and get a feel for what you 
are
> > getting.  If others are interested in this I wouldn't mind 
posting
> > these files on a webpage either as a sort of database.  Let me 
know.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > JOsh
> > joshrandall@...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL 
OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR 
LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
HAVE BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; 
(ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL 
BW, THE

> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

If you have plenty of computer time available, you could do as I do, shoot
4x5 B&W, scan, edit in Photoshop and print digitally. I much prefer the
quality to images from 6 and 8mb digital cameras. I haven't compared to full
frame sensor images, as I get all the quality I need from my present setup.
Another thing to consider, do you really need a digital camera?

Steve

On 18/7/06 4:38 am, "joshscapes" <joshrandall@...> wrote:

> I have thought about doing 4x5 for quite some time but seeing as my
> day job already takes too much of my time, I simply do not have time
> to spend in a darkroom.  I have plenty of time however even at my
> job to sit in front of a computer and manipulate images.  Thus my
> trying to get into digital.

No Steve.  I don't really need a digital camera.  But, I do believe 
that in my lifetime (i'm 29 now) I should become accustomed to them 
and thoroughly know what they can and can't do firsthand.  I am an 
inquisitive person and would like to get the experience of digital 
so that when I do or do not stick with my pentax 67 I am doing so 
based on my taste and experiences and not simply from what I have 
gathered from others.  As for the 4x5 scanning, I have shot 4x5 and 
really prefer the portability I get from the 6x7 negative.  I am not 
looking to get a digital camera to improve my picture quality, but 
to stick my toe into it and get a real sense of what it is about.  
If it improved my image quality great.  If not, I don't really care 
as I like the quality I am already getting.  I do take all of your 
comments to heart and very much respect all on this list greatly.  
All have you have given me different things to think about in this 
endeavor.  Thank you.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Bell 
<steve@...> wrote:
>
> If you have plenty of computer time available, you could do as I 
do, shoot
> 4x5 B&W, scan, edit in Photoshop and print digitally. I much 
prefer the
> quality to images from 6 and 8mb digital cameras. I haven't 
compared to full
> frame sensor images, as I get all the quality I need from my 
present setup.
> Another thing to consider, do you really need a digital camera?
> 
> Steve
> 
> On 18/7/06 4:38 am, "joshscapes" <joshrandall@...> wrote:
> 
> > I have thought about doing 4x5 for quite some time but seeing as 
my
> > day job already takes too much of my time, I simply do not have 
time

> > to spend in a darkroom.  I have plenty of time however even at my
> > job to sit in front of a computer and manipulate images.  Thus my
> > trying to get into digital.
>

wow peter.  thanks for the post.  your story is very relatable to 
me.  i just got back from a trip to sequoia national park where I 
took my pentax 67 and 10 rolls of film.  while i'm sure i've gotten 
some great shots I don't know becuase i haven't have the chance to 
develop them.  a problem i keep running into.  also i found myself 
refraining from taking too many shots as the set up of the tripod, 
the changing film every 10 shots, metering, and exposing take time.  
Not to mention the wait of that bowling ball of a camera.  thanks 
again.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Peter De Smidt 
<pdesmidt@...> wrote:
>
> I've been an avid amateur photographer for 16 years, and I have a 
> darkroom full of professional grade equipment, including 4x5 and 
8x10 
> color enlargers.  For the last 10 years, my main camera was a 4x5 
view 
> camera. I enlarged these negatives using high quality lenses on an 
> aligned enlarger using a glass carrier to 8x10 and 11x14.  In 
addition, 
> I have a print collection of over 100 prints, which includes some 
by 
> very fine photographers: Les McLean, Wynn Bullock, Ralph 
Lambrecht.... 
> So I do think that I have some idea of what a quality traditional 
silver 
> print looks like.  A few years ago, I bought to Fuji medium format 
> rangefinders to use on a trip.  Using Ilford XP2 Super, I got 
> outstanding results, and I had a lot of fun.
> 
>  About this time I bought a 2 mp Canon digital point and shoot, 
mainly 
> to take picture for Ebay.  While not a fan of the shutter lag, I 
could 
> make better 4x6" prints using this camera than I could with my 
trusty 
> Nikon FM2 with Nikon prime lenses.  Despite this success, I was 
> convinced that a D70 or digital Rebel would not give me the 
quality that 
> I wanted.  This was unfortunate in that a job change had given me 
> significantly less time in the darkroom.  I'm a slow printer, and 
I 
> using bleaching and toning on fiber-based silver gelatin paper, 
which is 
> time consuming to process. And I simply didn't have the time (and 
still 
> don't) to spend a whole day in the darkroom making a group prints 
from 
> one negative. This sucks, as I enjoy the darkroom process 
immensely.
> 
>  As a result, when the D200 came out, I bought one.  I figured 
that if 
> it really didn't work out, I could sell it for not that big of a 
loss.  
> Well, since I bought it, I haven't used anything else.  Reading 
various 
> websites, and with some experience scanning negatives, my 
calculations 
> indicated that I'd only be able to get decent 8x10s. These 
calculations 
> were wrong.  Way wrong.  With careful use, I can get 12x18 inch 
prints 
> that are better than anything I could get with medium format and 
smaller 
> film cameras.  To be honest, the best 12x18 prints from the Dslr 
don't 
> give up anything to the 11x14 inch optical prints from 4x5. (TMX 
> developed in Xtol 1+2). Even better, my photography has gotten 
much 
> better, as I carry my D200 with most of the time, and taking shots 
with 
> it takes significantly less time than using my Sinar P. It's true 
that 
> at some point, enlargement (optical or digital) from 4x5 film 
should out 
> pace the quality from my 10 mp dslr, but with my 13x19" printer, I 
don't 
> see it. I do miss the focal plane and perspective control of the 
view 
> camera, but that's about it.  There are lots of hurdles with 
digital 
> photography, from blown highlights to clogged nozzles, but there 
are 
> hurdles no matter what you do.  When I could only print with Mis 
inks in 
> a C86 or R220, I wouldn't have been happy. I had tons of clogged 
> nozzles, and the prints were just OK. With my R2400 and Epson 
premium 
> semi-matte, premium semi-gloss and silver rag papers, I'm much 
happier. 
> Good luck and have fun! (I'll be happy to send you a raw file from 
my d200.)
>

Hmmm, I must be doing something wrong.I see a big difference with my
8.2mp 20d work, and tango scanned 4x5 Tmax 100 developed in PMK in
13x19.I'm still fairly new, under a year though with digital input.

Here's a couple done with my 20d that are good up to about 11x14-17,
but the 4x5's of the same subject just have richer tonality and
clarity.Maybe I need to spring for a 4800

http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/63689677/original

http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/63689875/original

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Peter De Smidt
<pdesmidt@...> wrote:

> To be honest, the best 12x18 prints from the Dslr don't 
> give up anything to the 11x14 inch optical prints from 4x5. (TMX 
> developed in Xtol 1+2).

> Hmmm, I must be doing something wrong.I see a big difference with my
> 8.2mp 20d work, and tango scanned 4x5 Tmax 100 developed in PMK in
> 13x19.I'm still fairly new, under a year though with digital input.
I doubt that you're doing anything wrong.  I was comparing my optical 
enlargements from 4x5 to images from my d200 printed on an r2400, 
whereas you're talking about drum scanning 4x5 versus 20D. Moreover, 
it's perfectly possible that the type of images that I've printed so far 
are significantly different from your own. In fact they are, as I've 
mostly printed 12x18" color prints from the dslr.  In addition, I've 
mainly been shooting landscapes and candid portraiture with my d200, 
where the weight/bulk/complexity/slowness of setup of my large format 
gear is a significant hurdle.  If I were doing studio still-lifes, I'd 
still shoot 4x5 or 8x10.  In addition, I want to stress that my 
conclusions about digital photography are very new, and hence very 
tentative. After the dslr glow wears off, if it does, I may find myself 
shooting more large format again. In any case you should do what works 
best in your own system.

> One potential issue I have thought about is noise during long
> exposures. Since many of my pictures are landscapes which needs to be
> sharp from near to infinity I usually have to stop down quite much,
> which results in long exposure times from 8 s to 1/4 s. Have you, or
> other users on the list, experienced problems with excess noise during
> such long exposure times?
>
> Regards,
> Anders Blomqvist, Finland
Hi Anders,

I haven't noticed any increased noise in those shutter speed ranges, but 
that doesn't mean that there isn't any.  For landscapes, I'm usually 
using a Tokina At-x Pro DX 12-24mm, which on my D200 is equivalent to an 
18 to 36mm lens on a full frame camera. With a lens that wide, I usually 
don't have to stop down as much as I used to.  I'll do some tests, 
though, and report back.

Regards,
Peter De Smidt

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Peter De Smidt
<pdesmidt@...> wrote:
>
<snip>
> 
>  As a result, when the D200 came out, I bought one.  I figured that if 
> it really didn't work out, I could sell it for not that big of a loss.  
> Well, since I bought it, I haven't used anything else.  Reading various 
> websites, and with some experience scanning negatives, my calculations 
> indicated that I'd only be able to get decent 8x10s. These calculations 
> were wrong.  Way wrong.  With careful use, I can get 12x18 inch prints 
> that are better than anything I could get with medium format and
smaller 
> film cameras. <snip>

Hi Peter,

It was interesting to read about your experience. I have a Bronica
GS-1 6x7 cm camera and scan using a Minolta MF scanner. With recent
advances in digital cameras I have been wondering if I
would make my life easier with a digital SLR. 

One potential issue I have thought about is noise during long
exposures. Since many of my pictures are landscapes which needs to be
sharp from near to infinity I usually have to stop down quite much,
which results in long exposure times from 8 s to 1/4 s. Have you, or
other users on the list, experienced problems with excess noise during
such long exposure times?

Regards,
Anders Blomqvist, Finland

>>----- Original Message ----- 

From: Anders Blomqvist 
One potential issue I have thought about is noise during long
exposures. Since many of my pictures are landscapes which needs to be
sharp from near to infinity I usually have to stop down quite much,
which results in long exposure times from 8 s to 1/4 s. Have you, or
other users on the list, experienced problems with excess noise during
such long exposure times?

Regards,
Anders Blomqvist, Finland<<


Anders

In your case, one thing you may have to consider is that the optimum aperture for digital cameras is usually between f11 and f16, and stopping down further can cause loss of sharpness through diffraction.

Brian

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Noise is a constant amount, plus a part that is proportional to
exposure time. Longer exposure, more noise from Dark Current.  The
answer is to take multiple exposures and co-add them in
post-processing. Working from a stable mount, like a tripod, the
images will register if there is no movment in the scene or from the
camera. Generaly losest noise is when the readout noise and the dark
current noise are equal in each shot.

You are not moving the film etc, so there is no need for overly
long exposures in the camera.

-- 
Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.
                                             West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

--- "Brian" <brian@...> wrote:
> In your case, one thing you may have to 
> consider is that the optimum aperture for 
> digital cameras is usually between f11 and f16, 
> and stopping down further can cause loss of 
> sharpness through diffraction.

I hate to be contrary here, but although what you say may be true for 
consumer grade lenses, professional grade lenses (Nikon) generally 
perform very well starting at f/4.5 to around f/8. And some lenses, 
like Nikon's 85 f/1.4, 300 f/2.8, and 70-200 have great performance 
even when they're wide open. Now if I'm shooing a landscape, then 
sure, I'll try to set my camera at f/8 or f/11 to achieve maximum 
quality balanced with great DOF, but if the conditions warrant 
opening my lenses up a bit more, I don't worry about it when I'm 
shooting with professional glass. 

And as a final point, I don't find there is any difference in lens 
performance between film and digital cameras. It's the lens that 
makes the difference.

Rob Greer
http://www.robgreer.com/

> > Hmmm, I must be doing something wrong.  
> > I see a big difference with my 8.2mp 20d work, 
> > and tango scanned 4x5 Tmax 100 developed in PMK in
> > 13x19...

> I doubt that you're doing anything wrong. 
> I was comparing my optical enlargements from 4x5 
> to images from my d200 printed on an r2400, ...

Digital controls seem to be almost equal to a film size increase in some
respects.

> Moreover, ... 
>I've mostly printed 12x18" color prints from the dslr...

I'm finding that the dslr is so easy (and fun) to shoot hand held and the
color is so inviting, that it's going to take considerably more discipline
to use the tripod and visualize in B&W when using these new tools.  (If this
sounds like a confession of a B&W shooter who's trying to resist the
addiction of the dslr -- it is.  I may need a "dslr 12-step program.")

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

In a message dated 7/19/06 12:45:11 PM, paul.roark@... writes:


> I'm finding that the dslr is so easy (and fun) to shoot hand held and the
> color is so inviting, that it's going to take considerably more discipline
> to use the tripod and visualize in B&W when using these new tools.  (If this
> sounds like a confession of a B&W shooter who's trying to resist the
> addiction of the dslr -- it is.  I may need a "dslr 12-step program.")
> 

Or at least a Digital Zone System program... <G>

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision.com
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I might also add that while I agonize about the times I carelessly shot hand
held with the dslr when the tripod really should have been used, the image I
just posted on my web page would probably not have been taken with my slow
B&W film setup.  Setting up a metal tripod on a ridge top in a thunderstorm
may not be a wise idea.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CDTobie@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:59 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] request for sample files

 


In a message dated 7/19/06 12:45:11 PM, paul.roark@verizon.
<mailto:paul.roark%40verizon.net> net writes:

> I'm finding that the dslr is so easy (and fun) to shoot hand held and the
> color is so inviting, that it's going to take considerably more discipline
> to use the tripod and visualize in B&W when using these new tools.  (If
this
> sounds like a confession of a B&W shooter who's trying to resist the
> addiction of the dslr -- it is.  I may need a "dslr 12-step program.")
> 

Or at least a Digital Zone System program... <G>

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision <mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com> .com
www.colorvision.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So, today is't a 12-setp program.  Last week it was a 24 megepixle chip!
   
  TB


Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
          
> > Hmmm, I must be doing something wrong. 
> > I see a big difference with my 8.2mp 20d work, 
> > and tango scanned 4x5 Tmax 100 developed in PMK in
> > 13x19...

> I doubt that you're doing anything wrong. 
> I was comparing my optical enlargements from 4x5 
> to images from my d200 printed on an r2400, ...

Digital controls seem to be almost equal to a film size increase in some
respects.

> Moreover, ... 
>I've mostly printed 12x18" color prints from the dslr...

I'm finding that the dslr is so easy (and fun) to shoot hand held and the
color is so inviting, that it's going to take considerably more discipline
to use the tripod and visualize in B&W when using these new tools. (If this
sounds like a confession of a B&W shooter who's trying to resist the
addiction of the dslr -- it is. I may need a "dslr 12-step program.")

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 



         


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please do Richard.  I would be very interested in seeing your raw 
files.  Especially if you can provide two from different cameras but 
of the same scene.  that would be great.  I am thinking I will try 
to set up a website to post raw files to so that others can look as 
well.  thanks again.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wise" 
<wise.richard@...> wrote:
>
> Josh,
> Do you want to see Nikon?  I went through the process about 22 mos 
ago and
> bought a Nikon D70 (Too much Nikkor glass to discard).  Today (as 
of 8 mos
> ago), in addition to my D70, I also own a D2x... a big purchase 
for me.  The
> D70 is (still) a wonderful camera and a fantastic backup.  
Tomorrow, I will
> shoot the same set with both of my cameras (6 and 12.5 megs) to 
more
> accurately evaluate their performance differences.  Honestly, I 
don't know
> why I haven't done it yet.  If you're interested I would be happy 
to send
> them to you.
> -Richard   
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> joshscapes
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:10 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] request for sample files
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you would be willing to send me a raw 
file 
> from your digital camera so I can scrutinize it in photoshop and 
see 
> for myself what you all are getting in terms of quality with 
digital.  
> I don't care if it is a shot of your shoe.  Just so long as it is 
a 
> file taken with your digital camera of choice at maximum quality 
so 
> that I can play with it in photoshop and get a feel for what you 
are 
> getting.  If others are interested in this I wouldn't mind posting 
> these files on a webpage either as a sort of database.  Let me 
know.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JOsh
> joshrandall@...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
ADVISED OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER

> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Paul you hit the nail right on the head for me as to why I am 
finally getting serious about getting into digital capture.  When I 
was in Sequoia last week I had to pass up so many spur of the moment 
shots due to my gear.  Because of the rainfall this year the meadows 
were still lush, there were bear, dear, squirrels, and countless 
other animals everywhere and the light was changing constantly due 
to the thunderstorms overhead.  I had about four or five really good 
shots that I never got because that "decisive moment" passed before 
I was ready to shoot.  Atleast with a digital camera, while it might 
not be the quality I am getting from my setup, it would atleast have 
been captured at a decent quality and preserved with a digital 
camera.  

That trip really was my breaking point to make me finally realize 
that I am not Ansel Adams or Ed Weston.  I do not have the leisure 
to have months hiking through the woods photographing.  I get a 
weekend here, a couple days there, and that's my opportunity.  I 
need to maximize that opportunity when it comes.  While I believe I 
will always shoot my medium format b&w setup, I don't want to 
continue to miss those "spur of the moment" shots that a digital 
could help me capture.  And I'm definately not too old to learn 
(29).  :-)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> I might also add that while I agonize about the times I carelessly 
shot hand
> held with the dslr when the tripod really should have been used, 
the image I
> just posted on my web page would probably not have been taken with 
my slow
> B&W film setup.  Setting up a metal tripod on a ridge top in a 
thunderstorm
> may not be a wise idea.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> CDTobie@...
> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:59 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] request for sample files
> 
>  
> 
> 
> In a message dated 7/19/06 12:45:11 PM, paul.roark@verizon.
> <mailto:paul.roark%40verizon.net> net writes:
> 
> > I'm finding that the dslr is so easy (and fun) to shoot hand 
held and the
> > color is so inviting, that it's going to take considerably more 
discipline
> > to use the tripod and visualize in B&W when using these new 
tools.  (If
> this
> > sounds like a confession of a B&W shooter who's trying to resist 
the
> > addiction of the dslr -- it is.  I may need a "dslr 12-step 
program.")

> > 
> 
> Or at least a Digital Zone System program... <G>
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@colorvision <mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com> .com
> www.colorvision.com
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Josh: I sent them yesterday.  Must have hit a glitch somewhere ( D70 file is
>5mb and D2x is > 19mb).  I'm resending the email again now.  I'll send each
file in a separate email this time.  Let me know if you don't get them
shortly.
-R

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
joshscapes
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 2:57 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] request for sample files

Please do Richard.  I would be very interested in seeing your raw 
files.  Especially if you can provide two from different cameras but 
of the same scene.  that would be great.  I am thinking I will try 
to set up a website to post raw files to so that others can look as 
well.  thanks again.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wise" 
<wise.richard@...> wrote:
>
> Josh,
> Do you want to see Nikon?  I went through the process about 22 mos 
ago and
> bought a Nikon D70 (Too much Nikkor glass to discard).  Today (as 
of 8 mos
> ago), in addition to my D70, I also own a D2x... a big purchase 
for me.  The
> D70 is (still) a wonderful camera and a fantastic backup.  
Tomorrow, I will
> shoot the same set with both of my cameras (6 and 12.5 megs) to 
more
> accurately evaluate their performance differences.  Honestly, I 
don't know
> why I haven't done it yet.  If you're interested I would be happy 
to send
> them to you.
> -Richard   
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> joshscapes
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:10 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] request for sample files
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I was wondering if any of you would be willing to send me a raw 
file 
> from your digital camera so I can scrutinize it in photoshop and 
see 
> for myself what you all are getting in terms of quality with 
digital.  
> I don't care if it is a shot of your shoe.  Just so long as it is 
a 
> file taken with your digital camera of choice at maximum quality 
so 
> that I can play with it in photoshop and get a feel for what you 
are 
> getting.  If others are interested in this I wouldn't mind posting 
> these files on a webpage either as a sort of database.  Let me 
know.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JOsh
> joshrandall@...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
ADVISED OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>








Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

That's pretty much where I am, especially after learning how to get good b&w
out of the DSLR and good b&w prints from the Epson.  For me, the DSLR
represents freedom, as Aretha would say.  Few technical issues, just hunt
for images.  No tripod most of the time, no hugely bulky stuff on the
airplane, no time wasted developing and scanning film, no changing out film
holders in the middle of the night in the hotel bathroom, no need to be
super selective in what to photograph because of all the baggage that goes
with it, no being stuck with one film speed, no bank account balance :).
Sort of like finding out that you can buy paint brushes without chains
attached.

Ken Carney
www.kencarney.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> joshscapes
> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 2:12 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: request for sample files
> 
> Paul you hit the nail right on the head for me as to why I am
> finally getting serious about getting into digital capture.  When I
> was in Sequoia last week I had to pass up so many spur of the moment
> shots due to my gear.  Because of the rainfall this year the meadows
> were still lush, there were bear, dear, squirrels, and countless
> other animals everywhere and the light was changing constantly due
> to the thunderstorms overhead.  I had about four or five really good
> shots that I never got because that "decisive moment" passed before
> I was ready to shoot.  Atleast with a digital camera, while it might
> not be the quality I am getting from my setup, it would atleast have
> been captured at a decent quality and preserved with a digital
> camera.
> 
> That trip really was my breaking point to make me finally realize
> that I am not Ansel Adams or Ed Weston.  I do not have the leisure
> to have months hiking through the woods photographing.  I get a
> weekend here, a couple days there, and that's my opportunity.  I
> need to maximize that opportunity when it comes.  While I believe I
> will always shoot my medium format b&w setup, I don't want to
> continue to miss those "spur of the moment" shots that a digital
> could help me capture.  And I'm definately not too old to learn
> (29).  :-)
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> >
> > I might also add that while I agonize about the times I carelessly
> shot hand
> > held with the dslr when the tripod really should have been used,
> the image I
> > just posted on my web page would probably not have been taken with
> my slow
> > B&W film setup.  Setting up a metal tripod on a ridge top in a
> thunderstorm
> > may not be a wise idea.

Is this "digital slip?"...

Bob Marsolais, fellow lightning rod.
>
> So, today is't a 12-setp program.  Last week it was a 24 megepixle 
chip!
>    
>   TB
> 
> 
> Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
>           
> > > Hmmm, I must be doing something wrong. 
> > > I see a big difference with my 8.2mp 20d work, 
> > > and tango scanned 4x5 Tmax 100 developed in PMK in
> > > 13x19...
> 
> > I doubt that you're doing anything wrong. 
> > I was comparing my optical enlargements from 4x5 
> > to images from my d200 printed on an r2400, ...
> 
> Digital controls seem to be almost equal to a film size increase 
in some
> respects.
> 
> > Moreover, ... 
> >I've mostly printed 12x18" color prints from the dslr...
> 
> I'm finding that the dslr is so easy (and fun) to shoot hand held 
and the
> color is so inviting, that it's going to take considerably more 
discipline
> to use the tripod and visualize in B&W when using these new tools. 
(If this
> sounds like a confession of a B&W shooter who's trying to resist 
the
> addiction of the dslr -- it is. I may need a "dslr 12-step 
program.")

> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
>          
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>