Digital BW, The Print

----- Original Message ----- 

  From: Jerry Olson 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS VM Inkset -- which Paper??


  You should love the Eclipse Satine paper, much cheaper than somerset. It
  comes in 190 GSM and 300 GSM Weights. I think the 190 is thick enough
  for most uses, but the heavier is great if your printer will take heavy papers.
  (If you just use the uncoated somerset, you will get very weak blacks.)
  Also try Legion's Photo Matte Paper, (230 GSMS,) and the Epson
  Watercolor paper. Photo Matte is the brightest white paper I've yet
  seen, and eclipse is nearly as white.

  jerry



  petervongaza wrote:
  > 
  > I just bought an epson 1200 with a CIS and would like to experiment
  > with MIS Inks. After reading Paul Roarks article on Variable-Toned
  > Inks i think i'm going to order a MIS VM inkset.  The quesion is what
  > paper(s) should i try??  My photographs typically have significant
  > shadow and hightlight regions (mountains with shadows, snow, ice, and
  > rock). Anybody have some suggestions?  The MIS site suggests SOMERSET
  > PHOTO ENHANCED, but at $89 for 13x19 is twice as expensive as
  > SOMERSET VELVET - ARCHIVAL PAPER. I currently print using Piezo inks
  > on EPSON HEAVYWEIGHT MATT and love the results.
  > 
  > Thanx, Peter
  > 
  > 
  > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
  > 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry all for the botched post previous to this one! Email got away from me.

jerry wrote:



> You should love the Eclipse Satine paper, much cheaper than somerset. It
> comes in 190 GSM and 300 GSM Weights. I think the 190 is thick enough
> for most uses, but the heavier is great if your printer will take heavy papers.
> (If you just use the uncoated somerset, you will get very weak blacks.)
> Also try Legion's Photo Matte Paper, (230 GSMS,) and the Epson
> Watercolor paper. Photo Matte is the brightest white paper I've yet
> seen, and eclipse is nearly as white.

Jerry, 
 
thanks for advice.  Between the Eclipse Satine and the Legion's Photo Matte which would you prefer?  The Eclipse Satine sounds good, especially if it's similar to Epson Heavy weight Matt which i like. I'll probably order some samples.

Peter  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You should love the Eclipse Satine paper, much cheaper than somerset. It
comes in 190 GSM and 300 GSM Weights. I think the 190 is thick enough
for most uses, but the heavier is great if your printer will take heavy papers.
 (If you just use the uncoated somerset, you will get very weak blacks.)
 Also try Legion's Photo Matte Paper, (230 GSMS,) and the Epson
Watercolor paper. Photo Matte is the brightest white paper I've yet
seen, and eclipse is nearly as white.

jerry



petervongaza wrote:

> 
> I just bought an epson 1200 with a CIS and would like to experiment
> with MIS Inks. After reading Paul Roarks article on Variable-Toned
> Inks i think i'm going to order a MIS VM inkset.  The quesion is what
> paper(s) should i try??  My photographs typically have significant
> shadow and hightlight regions (mountains with shadows, snow, ice, and
> rock). Anybody have some suggestions?  The MIS site suggests SOMERSET
> PHOTO ENHANCED, but at $89 for 13x19 is twice as expensive as
> SOMERSET VELVET - ARCHIVAL PAPER. I currently print using Piezo inks
> on EPSON HEAVYWEIGHT MATT and love the results.
> 
> Thanx, Peter
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Peter,

Let me add my 2 cents worth to the paper issue.

jerry wrote:

> You should love the Eclipse Satine paper,...
> Also try Legion's Photo Matte Paper, ...the brightest white ...

I agree those are fine papers.  Both have done well on my fade testing.  The
Eclipse is the only paper I've tested that beat (barely) Epson Archival
Matte in that test.  However, EAM has deeper blacks.

Photo Matte has a base that is bluish -- very cold.  While my tests seem to
indicate that the blacks are not quite as good as EAM's, it does give the
visual impression of greater range.  I think that might be because it has a
lot of brighteners added.  These turn yellow with extended bright light
exposure, and LPM yellowed more in my fade tests than other papers.
However, it was so blue to start with that it ended up neutral.

The Hahnemuhle papers are also highly thought of by many.  They seem to
print very well with the MIS Vm inkset, and apparently have a coating that,
like EAM, is designed for pigmented inks like the various MIS quads.

Of course, my standard is still Epson Archival Matte (EAM).  It's cheap
(check  www.atlex.com) and, overall, the paper that I would use regardless
of price for my display prints.  For long-term, dark storage (hundreds of
years) a rag paper might be a better bet, but for the best combination of
good blacks and light-fastness, it remains unbeaten in my tests.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Peter,

The Photo Matte is 230 Gsms, and is heavier than the Epson. Eclipse is
190 Gsms, but is every bit as thick and heavy as the photo matte if not
moreso. The 300 gsm eclipse is very heavy, and has a luxurious feel to
it, sort of like a fine watercolor paper. The eclipse papers can be
printed on either side, one is very smooth, like epson's archival matte,
and the other has a very attractive texture.

Some people like brilliant white paper for their black and whites. Photo
Matte is that. Eclipse is nearly as bright. I like both very much. I
beleive at Media Street the Photo matte was 26 dollars for 50 sheets of
letter size, which is pretty good.

Jerry


 
thanks for advice.  Between the Eclipse Satine and the Legion's Photo
Matte which would you prefer?  The Eclipse
Satine sounds good, especially if it's similar to Epson Heavy weight
Matt which i like. I'll probably order some
samples.

Peter

Paul, have you heard anything about Epson's rebranding the Archival
Matte to Endurance Matte? I still like the paper, a real bargain price
wise, but it still has that damn watermark on it in letter size. I was
going to get some 11x17 that doesn't have the watermark, but it isn't
really 11x17, it is 11.3 x 16.5, so you can't get 2 letter size prints
from it.
This wouldn't normally matter, but it would for my greeting cards.


Jerry




Paul Roark wrote:

> 
> Peter,
> 
> Let me add my 2 cents worth to the paper issue.
> 
> jerry wrote:
> 
> > You should love the Eclipse Satine paper,...
> > Also try Legion's Photo Matte Paper, ...the brightest white ...
> 
> I agree those are fine papers.  Both have done well on my fade testing.  The
> Eclipse is the only paper I've tested that beat (barely) Epson Archival
> Matte in that test.  However, EAM has deeper blacks.
> 
> Photo Matte has a base that is bluish -- very cold.  While my tests seem to
> indicate that the blacks are not quite as good as EAM's, it does give the
> visual impression of greater range.  I think that might be because it has a
> lot of brighteners added.  These turn yellow with extended bright light
> exposure, and LPM yellowed more in my fade tests than other papers.
> However, it was so blue to start with that it ended up neutral.
> 
> The Hahnemuhle papers are also highly thought of by many.  They seem to
> print very well with the MIS Vm inkset, and apparently have a coating that,
> like EAM, is designed for pigmented inks like the various MIS quads.
> 
> Of course, my standard is still Epson Archival Matte (EAM).  It's cheap
> (check  www.atlex.com) and, overall, the paper that I would use regardless
> of price for my display prints.  For long-term, dark storage (hundreds of
> years) a rag paper might be a better bet, but for the best combination of
> good blacks and light-fastness, it remains unbeaten in my tests.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> \ufffd

Paul,

Won't EAM also yellow with time because of brighteners. 

Chris Hargens

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Peter,
> 
> Let me add my 2 cents worth to the paper issue.
> 
> jerry wrote:
> 
> > You should love the Eclipse Satine paper,...
> > Also try Legion's Photo Matte Paper, ...the brightest white ...
> 
> I agree those are fine papers.  Both have done well on my fade 
testing.  The
> Eclipse is the only paper I've tested that beat (barely) Epson 
Archival
> Matte in that test.  However, EAM has deeper blacks.
> 
> Photo Matte has a base that is bluish -- very cold.  While my tests 
seem to
> indicate that the blacks are not quite as good as EAM's, it does 
give the
> visual impression of greater range.  I think that might be because 
it has a
> lot of brighteners added.  These turn yellow with extended bright 
light
> exposure, and LPM yellowed more in my fade tests than other papers.
> However, it was so blue to start with that it ended up neutral.
> 
> The Hahnemuhle papers are also highly thought of by many.  They 
seem to
> print very well with the MIS Vm inkset, and apparently have a 
coating that,
> like EAM, is designed for pigmented inks like the various MIS quads.
> 
> Of course, my standard is still Epson Archival Matte (EAM).  It's 
cheap
> (check  www.atlex.com) and, overall, the paper that I would use 
regardless
> of price for my display prints.  For long-term, dark storage 
(hundreds of
> years) a rag paper might be a better bet, but for the best 
combination of

> good blacks and light-fastness, it remains unbeaten in my tests.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Chris wrote:

>Won't EAM also yellow with time because of brighteners.

Yes, in the fluorescent light fader rather quickly causes a yellowing of
EAM, about 3 or 256 units.  It then stays there.  Legion is the one paper
that seems to yellow about twice as much as EAM.  (Museo doesn't yellow at
all, but it is subject to being blotchy, in my experience.)

Paul

_____________________



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Peter,
>
> Let me add my 2 cents worth to the paper issue.
>
> jerry wrote:
>
> > You should love the Eclipse Satine paper,...
> > Also try Legion's Photo Matte Paper, ...the brightest white ...
>
> I agree those are fine papers.  Both have done well on my fade
testing.  The
> Eclipse is the only paper I've tested that beat (barely) Epson
Archival
> Matte in that test.  However, EAM has deeper blacks.
>
> Photo Matte has a base that is bluish -- very cold.  While my tests
seem to
> indicate that the blacks are not quite as good as EAM's, it does
give the
> visual impression of greater range.  I think that might be because
it has a
> lot of brighteners added.  These turn yellow with extended bright
light
> exposure, and LPM yellowed more in my fade tests than other papers.
> However, it was so blue to start with that it ended up neutral.
>
> The Hahnemuhle papers are also highly thought of by many.  They
seem to
> print very well with the MIS Vm inkset, and apparently have a
coating that,
> like EAM, is designed for pigmented inks like the various MIS quads.
>
> Of course, my standard is still Epson Archival Matte (EAM).  It's
cheap
> (check  www.atlex.com) and, overall, the paper that I would use
regardless
> of price for my display prints.  For long-term, dark storage
(hundreds of
> years) a rag paper might be a better bet, but for the best
combination of

> good blacks and light-fastness, it remains unbeaten in my tests.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com